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To Flush Or Not To Flush
gooman writes "Tired of arguing the same old issues like Linux vs Windows? Choose up sides in the fight over flushing vs non-flushing urinals. The L.A. Times reports on efforts to place the waterless urinal into the Uniform Plumbing Code. To quote: '...the ordinary-looking urinal is at the center of a national debate that has plumbers and water conservationists taking aim at one another.' Amazingly simple, the no-flush urinal uses gravity to force urine through a filter containing a floating layer of oily liquid which then acts as a sealant to prevent sewer odors from escaping. Each no-flush urinal is claimed to save over 24,000 gallons of water a year, but the opposition is concerned about the spread of disease. Although not mentioned in the article this technology is in use around the world. Does anyone have these fixtures installed at their place of employment? Are there any real drawbacks? Is this really a worthwhile debate or just an excuse for toilet humor?"
There are actually a number of simple implementations that I have been absolutely surprised to not see in the US. For instance, in other places I have traveled around the world, dual flush toilets with "light" and "heavy" flush modes are available everywhere except in the most undeveloped third world countries. However, here in the US, particularly in water restricted areas you see standard high-flow toilets. Granted many "low flow" toilets such as the ones available in many areas of California are not so great if you have a fruit/vegetable intensive diet, but for some reason the toilets available in the US simply don't have the "power" that other more advanced designs have elsewhere in the world and I am not talking about the advanced technology toilets that they have in Japan either. Those are actually kinda scary because of all their automation and such, but simple things like pressure assist can make for very effective low water use designs.
:-) when it comes to plumbing issues that most of the rest of the world seems to have solved years ago?
Why is it that the US, one of the most advanced countries in the world cannot get their $#!^ together, pun intended
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I work as a government electronics contractor onboard U.S. Navy ships....some of the smaller ones have a similar urinal installed. It just collects urine until a certain amount has been collected (about 2 pisses or one really long one) and a level switch trips a vacuum suction device that sucks it away. The only drawback is that the urine that naturally coats the urinal walls and drain STINKS as it ages and never gets a water wash-down. It's nasty, but that's what you get when you piss in a hole and let it sit. I think they used to call it an outhouse back in the day.
Tux2slack
how can you waste water, when you flush it gets filtered again..It's not like Water Disappears..or am I stupid?
My University has them in the new CS building. I was pretty sceptical at first, but after about a year of usage, I have to say I am positively surprised. If anyhting, there is less odor, since people can't forget to flush. In our previous building we hat light sensors that would auto-flush, but since half the students wear black t-shirts, that didn't seem to work too well.
One of our newest buildings on campus (1998) is the EESAT (Environmental Education, Science and Technology) Building. There is a picture of the building at http://www.ias.unt.edu/about/. It is generally a favorite building on campus to have classes in, with a giant earth population clock, all native plants landscape the facility, and other conservation and science exhibits exist in and around the building.
The mens, can't speak to the womens, have urinals that are the flushless type described and there is a plaque above them indicating that they save water and trap odors. However the contractor went ahead a outfit the urinals with a water pipe in case they didn't work out. It stops short where an L shaped pipe would normally connect to a standard handle flushed or motion activated unit.
They have been there for several years without complaints, and they don't smell, so in this instance they are a success.
We had one installed at work - then ripped out and replaced with an old-fashioned water variant. It kept on blocking up. We asked why, and the answer came back that people were pissing in it too often.
:v)
Well sucks to that idea. Out it went.
Vik
> From: Willett, J.R. > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2000 3:16 PM > Subject: PUR > > Hi > > I received a PUR Water Filtration Pitcher (Plus LX, Platinum Edition) as a > Christmas present, and I have a question about what things it can't > filter. > > I have been very satisfied with its performance in removing chlorine from > tapwater, however I am wondering what the limits are in its filtering > capabilities. Could it, for instance, remove ammonia from an ammonia-water > solution? In other words, could I use it in the desert to recycle urine > into > drinking water? The box says a lot about what it can filter, but not much > about what it can't filter. It only says that the water must be sterile, > and > everyone knows that urine is completely sterile on leaving the body. Upon > leaving the urinary tract, it provides an ideal environment for growing > bacteria, but it is completely sterile inside you. The reason we don't > habitually drink our own urine is because the water in our urine carries > bodily poisons with it, including ammonia. If, however, your pitcher can > remove these poisons, I can see how my PUR Water Filtration Pitcher could > come in handy when water is scarce. > > Although my roommate has offered to sample my filtered urine, I thought I > would ask you people first, before I pee in my PUR pitcher. > > Thanks, > > -J.R. Willett -----Original Message----- From: Beckenbach.Mark [mailto:Beckenbach.Mark@purwater.com%5D Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 9:38 AM To: 'Willett, J.R.' Subject: RE: PUR Hello J.R., Gee-Whiz, I must admit that I read your e-mail with some skepticism. Upon further reflection I came to the conclusion that you could indeed run human urine through our filters. If you do this it could very well hasten your way to death, but you can filter urine. We don't normally test urine or the body's by-products associated with it. Drinking urine is a bit out of the main stream, if you'll pardon the pun. The filter may have some effect on the potency of the ammonia. If you're in an emergency situation with out water, drinking urine will only make your day worse. The ammonia in urine isn't what's going to ruin an already pisser of a day, its the salts. By constantly reintroducing those salts into your system, you are increasing the amount of salt in your system, and decreasing the amount of usable fluids. This salt will draw water from other tissues in your body, as will your kidneys. Your kidneys need the extra water to flush the salts out. It's a viscous circle. As your kidneys are shutting down, the poisons in your body will increase; thereby playing havoc with your heart. The lack of electrolytes in your in your brain can cause the synapses to misfire eventually causing you to get delirious and run screaming into the desert waving your hands over your head chasing Elvis. All levity aside, I am not a physician. However I do understand our products and have a thorough understanding of human physiology. My recommendation is not to do it. Carry a bladder of water in your trunk. Being prepared is the best way to keep from having to drink pee. Mahalo, Mark -----Original Message----- From: Willett, J.R. Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 10:17 AM Subject: RE: PUR Mark, Thankyou for your timely reply in this matter. Not only have you saved us from what could have been a disasterous science experiment, but you have provided a tremendous amount of amusement to several college students with perhaps too much time on their hands to wonder about such things. I assume that if the filter cannot remove the salt from urine, then neither could it be used to filter ocean water to obtain something drinkable, another thing we were wondering about. Your skills in customer service extend even to answering the questions I did not ask. Have a pleasant day, and let me know if your R&D boys ever come up with a filter that can desalinate sea water and/or recycle human waste. I'll be the first to buy, if only for the bragging rights. -J.R.
A political Mandate to save water is what got us saddeled with Low flow toilets ann restrictors in shower heads(that any idiot can bypass) in the first place.
When you "Mandate" something people will comply with the letter of the law as cheap as possible. Laws written for toilets by lawers instead of plumbers don't work as intended.(and neither do the toilets)
Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
If a doctor contradicts me then ignore everything I say here.
Kidneys are wonderful microfilters and normally don't let bacteria through. On the other hand there are kidney diseases that let things through that shouldn't be there. The vet monitored our late cat's kidney disease by checking whether bacteria were showing up in her urine.
Then there are bladder infections.
Normally though urine is considered the most sterile of body fluids.
I know this is just anecdotal story from living in my dorm but I'd figure i should share. 25 guys shared one bathroom which had three toilets (and two urinals). One toilet stall was for handicapped people so it was nice, large and comfortable. This poor toilet saw the waste of ever gentlemen every day and invariably it would clog during the weekend, every weekend. Just didn't have the power to deal. RUM+COKE
First, lots of cities in the US are changing their building codes to get rid of "low flush" after having them for years. Low flush toilets actually waste water because they frequently don't carry away all the waste on the first or second flush, so people end up flushing them repeatedly. After five flushes on a low flush, you've wasted like 3 times the water to accomplish what a regular toilet would have done in a single flush.
As far as "no flush" oil based systems, I've actually used one and I was disgusted by the smell. The state of South Carolina has (or had during the early-mid 90s) a "zero effluent" rest area on I-26. It used a mineral oil based system. They had big signs explaining how it worked and how it was so evironmentally beneficial etc etc etc. The problem is that it smelt like the monkey house at the zoo on a bad day. And I don't mean like a normal rest stop smells, but like a normal rest stop x12. I lived in the Carolinas back then and I frequently traveled that interstate, so I learned to "hold it" and skip that particual rest area and pay $.85 to buy a cup of coffee at McDonalds so I could use their regular bathroom. The smell is a dead give-away of bacterial growth. There is *NO WAY* an oil based no-flush system could ever be sanitary.
Let's see, suppose someone RICH constructs his own desalination plant working from sea water, transports it with his own fleet of trucks, fills his own private reservoir. All to be able to flush with abundant water. What's wrong with that?
The vast majority in the UK just have a large tank high up on the wall, and a timer flushes them all every hour or so. They normally don't smell particularly (except the infamous "public toilets" that only the very desperate use) and I guess this saves a lot of water over ones that flushed every time?
The problem with raising water prices is that you have the conservative minded folk who use water when needed (like don't keep the water running when brushing teeth, etc.) and then you have those idiots that gleefully waste water for whatever and don't have the concept of a leaky faucet.
I lived in a state that had drought conditions 5 years ago for a period of 3 years. There was a watering ban for neighborhoods where it ended up that you couldn't water your lawn or wash your car.
It started out that you shouldn't water your lawn and shouldn't wash your car. It ten went to if you have to use your outside water supply, use it on odd/even days depending upon your address.
In year 2, the odd/even days stuck and if you did have to use water, it was before 10am and after 7pm . Warnings and fines came into play if you broke the rulesand people started to get pissed.
In year 3, you were prohibited from using water at all.
Year 4 had record rainfall so it went back to normal.
The point I'm making is that you had the neighbors (like me) that didn't water the lawn or wash the car and you had the idiots with blatant disregard for the water shortage that eventually got their water cut off and had to pay a hefty fine to get it back on.
These are the same people that have parties at 2AM that wake the neighbothood.
You can charge whatever for a service and lazy idiots will pay as long as they can still do what they want to do.
if you steal from one source, that is plagiarism, if you steal from many, well, that's just research.
To correctly wash your hands: do to the towel dispenser and unroll enough towel to dry your hands when done - leave the towel hanging. (if the towel is not on a roll you skip this step). Turn the water on, and adjust to the temperature you like. Wet hands. put soap on hands. Lather for at least 30 seconds, making sure to get the spaces between fingers, and under nails (as best you can). Rinse hands. Remove towel and dry hands. Use towel to turn off faucet. Throw towel away. Leave bathroom by push on door with your shoulder (the doors are supposed to open out, if not use the towel to open door, then your foot holds the door open while you throw the towel at the can).
This is easier than it sounds. I always do it this way, but mostly because I like to confuse other people when they see me do it.
We have waterless urinals at work (overall they are very common in southern california), and yes they smell because the urine builds up on the sides and stinks.
I spoke to the janitor once about them, because they seemed like they would be very hard to clean... and he said that they were very difficult and very unpleasant to clean. He also said that they break all of the time and the oil cartridges need to be replaced every few months (even though the manufacturer claims otherwise) or the urinals will overflow with a very nasty mixture of urine and oil.... and the cartridges are very expensive.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
Speaking as an employee of an east coat water and sewer company, we have an interesting take on it. The first so many gallons are priced pretty much at cost. The second band of usage have extra added on. The third band of residential use is seriously expensive. Typical use will result in a very reasonable bill. Lots of laundry, high flow toilets and so forth will result in a moderately higher water bill. Leaky plumbing, especially leaky toilets, can result in an astronomical bill.
Our customer service agents usually forgive the first really large water bill, but following ones are expected to be more normal.
In any case, we do try to use economics to encourage water conservation.
Nearly fifty percent of all graduates come from the bottom half of the class!
Seems that these are a good idea, but the execution is a bit poor. We have them at work, but the shape of the urinals is wrong. You walk out of the bathroom with a significant amount of "splash back" damage. Because of this most guys use the regular toilets.. I bet that really drives up the water bill.
Here in Las Vegas, the golf courses are heavily restricted in water use. A few have wells that are supported by the perenial yield in the groundwater basin, the rest are using reclaimed water (treated wastewater used for irrigation), As for the casinos here that so many wave their finger at, They use grey water for the water features (Bellagio and Mirage fountains) and the only significant consumptive use is the water lost to evaporation in the air conditioning systems. The water used for toilets and showers is treated and returned to the Colorado River and a return flow credit is recieved. The single largest use of water in Vegas is single family home turf irrigation.
Refill the tank with water you've used to wash your hands with. After all, you don't need 100% clean water to flush down your waste, and you're going to wash your hands anyway after you use the toilet. (You do wash your hands after using the toilet, don't you?)
The Japanese have had toilets for a while now with a spigot on the top of the tank. When you flush the toilet, clean water comes out of the spigot (with which you can wash your hands) and drains into the tank. Check out the picture here.
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.