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Is SETI a Security Risk?

Dotnaught writes "Richard Carrigan, a particle physicist at the US Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory in Illinois, fears the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI) may be putting the earth at risk. As reported in the Guardian, Carrigan frets that alien radio signals could pose a security risk. The report cites a 2003 paper entitled "Do potential Seti signals need to be decontaminated?" but Carrigan's website has more details. Basically, he's calling for isolation of SETI computers and additional security measures. He writes, "To paraphrase Cocconi and Morrison for the possibility of a malevolent SETI signal ...the probability of a contaminated SETI signal is difficult to estimate; but if we never consider it the chance of infection is not zero."" Frankly, I'm more worried about some phishing malcontent then I am about the Grays, but maybe that's just me.

12 of 527 comments (clear)

  1. Chicken and Egg. by FalconZero · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From TFA:
    1. Raw signal in memory must bootstrap to status of operating program
    2. Program must then untangle the inner workings of the host. (Is it possible to now build a diagnosis program to determine the operating set of an unfamiliar computer?)
    I'm not a software engineer but... no, wait, I AM a software engineer, so I'm curious, how does this 'virus' execute step 1 [Buffer Overrun & Privilage Escalation] without doing step 2 first [Determine instruction set for system] (Which incidentally requires step one to have been performed first.)
    As far as I see it, theres as much chance of data in the recieve buffer created by background radiation being a viable 'virus' as there is a deliberate chunk of data will be

    This sounds suspiciously like :
    1) Send malicious code
    2) ...
    3) Infect universe (and profit)
    --
    Windows in 6 Bytes (IA-32) : 90 90 90 90 CD 19
    1. Re:Chicken and Egg. by a_nonamiss · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're using the mindset that these ET's are of similar intelligience to humans. We tend to do that as a species. But imagine, if you will, a civilization that is only 2000+ years more advanced that us. And realistically, and civilization advanced enough to receive our radio waves and respond is likely greater than 2000 years more advanced than us. Consider how very short 2000 years is in a universal timescale. To this advanced civilization, our advanced code is nothing more than a toddler's plaything. We can't even begin to fathom the ways in which they could potentially expolit our security.

      It's like if the Romans built a huge wall and said "That will keep out anyone. It's not possible to breach it." Using our technology, which is 2000 years more advanced, (less, actually) we could fly an B2 bomber over the city and drop a couple 2000 pound bombs. The pinnalce of their most advanced security would last less than 10 seconds against the most basic of our assaults.

      I know this is a little different when talking about computer security, but just as the Romans couldn't even imagine in their wildest dreams a B2 bomber, let alone how it could possible get past their impenetrable wall, we can't conceive of the technology that could be used to "infect" our computers. In 2000 years, who knows what kind of power we would have to defeat such a system? We can't know because it's beyond even our wildest imagination.

      --
      -Arthur
      Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
    2. Re:Chicken and Egg. by Ihlosi · · Score: 5, Insightful
      we can't conceive of the technology that could be used to "infect" our computers.



      And that's the flaw in your B2-Bomber-argument. The aliens would be stuck with using our (extremely primitive) technology. We know pretty well how our computers work, and can figure out most ways to break/hack/crack them ourselves in a short timespan.



      It's a bit like using the tools and technologies the Romans had at that time and trying build that B2 bomber.

    3. Re:Chicken and Egg. by FalconZero · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good post, but incorrect. It doesn't matter if the civilisation is a million years more advanced than our, for them to deliberatly write a virus using the SETI recieve buffer as a vector is simply impossible. The systems are ours, any infection via this method MUST comply with out systems operating parameters (IE Instruction sets etc...). The code MUST execute on our systems, for which it MUST contain vaild opcodes. Even then, it relies on security flaws in OUR software (which may or may not exist).

      To use your analogy, its like assaulting a Roman wall in a place where the laws of physics prevent flight.

      --
      Windows in 6 Bytes (IA-32) : 90 90 90 90 CD 19
    4. Re:Chicken and Egg. by s20451 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The basic argument is this:

      If it were possible, within the limits of human technology, to take over the world with a computer virus, we would have seen some indication of it by now.

      However, if the aliens had some kind of magic technology that overcame human limitations, using it to take over the world via a computer virus is kind of ridiculous. They could just take over the world directly.

      And assuming that there are malicious aliens with technology far beyond ours, we're screwed anyway. So there is really no point in worrying about SETI security holes, or even about aliens in general.

      --
      Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
  2. Hmm... Is it just me or is this guy... by beh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...completely out of his mind?

    Granted - once we had contact any alien civilisation could also get into a situation where they could potentially send malware to Earth.

    But - isn't Seti right now looking at data from stars a good number of lightyears away? How likely is it that aliens on the off chance of infecting a computer would send out virusses and/or worms that would run on current CPUs and chipsets, using security holes that are current NOW? (Remember - if aliens 10 lightyears away would get hold of enough Earth signals to decode Intel assembly language and to understand Windows security holes, even if they could decipher all that overnight and write a terminal computer virus in another hour - it still took them 10 years to receive the signals from us and it would take another 10 years for them to come back). How likely is it that a virus working on 20 year old hard-/software (including OS and everything) would still work on a large portion of critical infrastructure today?

    Given that Seti only checks data, but doesn't try to execute it, shields us even further from the whole thing...

    Or - is Mr. Carrigan now assuming that there is an imminent threat of an attack by Bin Laden against the Internet - through Seti@home ?
    Now that would make even Bush sound perfectly sane... ;-)

  3. I'm really worried by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because, of course, the aliens use binary Von Neumann machines with register/accumulator architectures, and instruction sets we're familiar with.

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  4. A classic example ... by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... of someone who's very knowledgeable in one technical field (in this case, particle physics) assuming that this knowledge carries over into another, almost unrelated technical field (in this case, computer science.) I'm sure that Dr. Carrigan is a very, very smart guy, but odds are he uses his computer as a tool without a whole lot more understanding of its inner workings than that possessed by the typical business user.

    --
    The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  5. Movie-plot threat by Proaxiom · · Score: 5, Insightful
    A perfect example of what Schneier calls movie-plot security.

    It's pretty sad that they're actually wasting brain cycles thinking about threats like this. No, the risk of infection isn't zero. But it's damn close to zero. It isn't zero if you 'secure' SETI systems, either. It isn't even zero if you dismantle the SETI telescopes.

    But money spent on this is money better spent elsewhere, practically no matter where else you spend it. This should have been in the 'It's Funny, Laugh' topic.

    (Prediction: this will appear on Schneier's blog by end of day tomorrow)

  6. His worst fear has probably already happened by Aging_Newbie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    SETI data is pretty much indistinguishable from random numbers. In fact, the extremely rare patterned sequences of data are the holy grail of the pursuit.

    So .... most likely lots of virus code has already been processed because random noise will eventually produce every virus, just like monkeys and keyboards will produce Shakespeare. One could, I guess, hold the position that by processing random data we are putting ourselves at risk and that rings more true than some civilization producing intentional sequences with malicious intent.

  7. A far greater risk... by stox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    is sending signals out. Although we may think we are saying hello, the receiver may be thinking, "Hmmm, I do need more meat in my diet."

    --
    "To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
  8. It's just you ;) by headkase · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I belive he's talking about those pesky abstractions we all use without a thought everyday. Basically, the scenario unfolds in this way: you recieve information from a entity and the ideas contained within said information can be helpful (like Universal Cure) to harmful or disruptive (something along the lines of a memetic virus).
    It would be a nasty trick for an alien civilization to give us the most destructive weapon possible without giving us accompaning social skill's as well. Or we could figuratively be on the 'beads' end in some initial contact scenario.
    To quote Morris Berman, "An idea is something you have, an ideology is something that has you.". An old alien civilization out there could just be very good at constructing ideologies. I'm not saying now is the time to consider this chance, rather that it should be considered when alien contact occurs.

    --
    Shh.