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High-Tech RepoMan
PlayfullyClever writes "A new gizmo is upping the odds that even the most hard-knock customer will come up with the car payment. Hooked into the ignition system, the gadget comes in a handful of versions with one common conclusion:
No pay, no start.
It's worked wonders at Norfolk's Patriot Auto Sales, where nearly every car that drives off the lot is outfitted with a PayTeck Smart Box, a system that hands over a five-digit code in exchange for each payment. Come due date, the car won't crank until the customer punches the code into a palm-size keypad wired into the dash.
I would think this "Smart Box" would get hacked way too easily, leaving car companies without their money."
"I would think this "Smart Box" would get hacked way too easily, leaving car companies without their money."
From TFA:
"Buyers sign forms acknowledging the Smart Box, agreeing not to tamper with it and promising to return to the dealership for a free removal after the last payment is made."
That implies that screwing with it in any way will get you into trouble if you get caught. That's not to say that somebody won't try, but it also implies that they have a means of catching you.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
If you read the article you would find out that the only people who would accept this are people who can't get anyone to loan them money for a car that works.
My brother runs a car lot in Memphis and has been using a device like this for years.
Sure a saavy mechanic can find the ignition lock out and disable it, but its in the contract that people sign at purchase that they will not disturb it, and is a felony to tamper with it (at least in Tennessee).
He's had a few folks defeat it and stop making payments, but eventually something happens to get the car repo'd and the customer in hot water. He says he's lost a very tiny percentage of the hundreds of cars he's outfitted with the ignition lock out.
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We don't NEED no stinkin' sig
A few years ago I developed a GPS-based system for tracking vehicles. Long story, but the client's original business plan didn't work--but his sales manager cottoned on to the idea of installing the units in cars at buy-here, pay-here car lots.
I bitched and moaned, and eventually dropped the client--in part because of the liability exposure, and in part because of the general sleaze. But I learned a bunch along the way.
How buy-here, pay-here car lots can do this:
It's simple: when you "purchase" a car from a buy-here, pay-here car lot, you're not buying the car. What you're doing is technically signing a "lease-purchase" contract: you're leasing the car until the final payment is made. That means the car dealer doesn't have a secured interest in the car--he OWNS the car. If you miss a payment, he picks up the car--and you have nothing.
That's dramatically different from a typical car purchase. If you buy a car from a new car dealer--or a reputable used-car lot--you will almost always finance the car. If you finance the car at the dealer (generally not a good idea) you'll sign something that looks like a loan agreement, but is technically called a Retail Installment Sales Contract (RISC). It is a contract to pay for the car over a certain period of time. The dealer then sells that contract to a bank or finance company. Key point: you are buying the car, and signing a contract to pay a loan--securing the loan with the car's title. Suppose you buy a $25,000 car, and put down $5,000 in cash and trade-in on your old car. Suppose you lose your job two weeks later, and can't pay the loan. You tell the bank--they'll be perfectly willing to take the car, liquidate the loan (by selling the car at auction), and give you the difference between what they sell the car for, and the balance on your loan.
With a lease-purchase agreement, it doesn't work that way. The car belongs to the dealer, not to you. If the dealer suckers you into putting money down, you have only the contract language (if any) to guarantee that you'll get anything back if the car is repossessed.
Buy-here, pay-here is a very bad deal
Bottom line: if your credit is so bad that you have to agree to install any kind of automated device to track you or force you to pay, you shouldn't be buying a car. First, you clearly are going to have trouble affording the car. Second, the cars the buy-here, pay-here crooks sell are typically heaps of junk: the cars left over at the auction that nobody wants to buy. A 1992 Ford with 150,000 miles on it isn't just going to require a monthly (or weekly) payment to the dealer--it's going to require a steady stream of parts and repair bills to keep rolling. Your chances of keeping that heap rolling for the two or three years of the "loan" are slim: and if the heap dies, you're still stuck paying credit card interest rates, and you don't have wheels.
That lien is callable the momment you default on the terms of the contract, its not a matter of them sending a real repo man out then it becomes callable. This device secures their interest in the property, well within their rights.
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I own and operate a used car lot. The devices we use are by a company called Passtime. The type of operation we have is a buy-here-pay-here lot that attracts a lot customers with sub-prime credit, and we haven't had a single customer not buy a car because of the device. The fact is, if they won't agree to having the device on their car, they probably won't pay (keep in mind, these are sub-prime customers). We usually weed them about before they even come inside!
The device is quite easy to "hack" if you would even call it that. Its just soldered to the wiring harness and can VERY easily be bypassed. Most customers don't question it because "its a little computer thingy" and its "very complex".
Apart from all that, in the contract, the customer must sign about three pages of forms made up of about 15 signatures from both buyer and co-buyer agreeing to all the terms and conditions regarding the device. Again, our customers never have a problem signing their John Hancock on the line.
About the operation of the device: Currently, the device we use utilizes a "code" system where the customer pays their payment, we give them a 9-digit code from Passtime's website. The code is only good for however many days we set it, then we can set warning days where it will beep upon starting to remind them that their payment is due, and each code has atleast two emergency days that they can use by pressing 999-999-999.
Regardless, it'd be nice if Passtime would give me the freakin' code to generate the Passtime codes so I can integrate it into my software! They protect it quite well, thankfully!
You need to brush up on your secured credit law bucko. A car loan comes with a security interest in the car. The car belongs to the customer. In no way is failing to pay the loan back "theft," it is default on a loan or, at most, fraud if the person entered into the contract with scienter. It is no more theft than failing to pay one's credit card bill.
The holder of a security interest (the car lender, here) has the right to "self help" in the event of default to satisfy the debt. (He also has the right to proceeds if the owner sells the car to someone else.) This is a difference from "unsecured credit," the best example being a credit card. No matter how much money someone owes on a credit card, the repo man can't come to his house and take some stuff to settle the debt.
In other words, I would bet you five hundred dollars you could not find a single court case where someone was convicted of "theft" for failing to make his car payments. I'm glad you're a fan of the repo man, honorable work, blah blah blah, but like most slashdot posters you don't know much about the law.
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