Reflections On The Revolution

Kotaku has been reporting from the Digital Interactive Entertainment Conference this past week, and they have a short piece on Industry giants talking about gaming on the Revolution. From the article: "Miyamoto keeps dropping his receiver, which is connected to an earpiece through which English is translated into Japanese. The perky student that greeted me at the door tells me that they didn't have money for a Japanese-to-English translator, meaning that I have to pay extra attention to what Miyamoto's saying right now. He's talking about the Revolution controller."

Comments

The Controller

[Eightyford]

What's to stop Microsoft or Sony from creating their own copy of this controller design?

Re:The Controller

[MBCook]

Nothing. Good ideas get copied.

Now that would be an obvious nod to Nintendo. It would also validate them and help the Revolution get games.

However, doing that will have one serious problem for MS and Sony (unless their version tops Nintendo's). We all know how well "required" accessories sell for consoles. look at anything from the PS2 broadband adapter, to the GC broadband adapter, to the Sega CD, to the PS2 HD, to the Sega 32X, to most any light-gun (Guncon, Menecer, Super Scope, etc), to the N64 memory upgrade. They just don't get the penetration to make them terribly useful. Most companies won't make designs that require them because "nobody owns one". So unless Halo 3 and FF XII require it, it will probably stay as an afterthought on the the PS3 and XBox 360.

This means more than likely games wouldn't support it, would "tack on" support (like some of the early DS games, where it just hurt the experience), it would need the controller but you could play with the regular (thus must people would think it was terrible because the control with the normal controller would be terrible), or you will HAVE to have the controller and you won't be able to use the old one (thus the price of entry is $30 higher and sales will suffer).

Nintendo has the right solution. I think we will see Sony and MS copy them, but it won't be until the PSP 2, PS 4, or XBox 720.

Re:The Controller

[MBCook]

Well, I thought a little more and there is one possibility that I should mention.

Both the PS and the Saturn got analog controllers after launch (ostensibly because they saw how good the N64's analog stick helped things). Now both controllers got a lot of use, much more than most add-on peripherals. The fact that those controllers started being bundled with the consoles did help quite a bit.

But the analog stick was obvious, and the control scheme was very close to the old d-pad (just more accurate) so the games didn't suffer as much if you didn't have one as the difference between the Revolution controller and a current controller. Plus the Sega controller had something of a killer app in Knights: Into Dreams.

My point is if they realize early enough and start packing in, they could adapt during the generation, but it would have to be near the later half of the generation (like the analog controllers). Short of a couple of killer-apps each (a new GTA might be able to do it for the PS3), Nintendo will have the lead in the controller area.

PS: Other things: U-Force for NES, any dance pad (and the running mat for the NES), that octagonal controller for the SNES/Genesis that could detected punches and kicks, the SNES mouse, the PS mouse, the Dreamcast keyboard, the power glove, and many others (note: I realize some of these were third party). And, most obvious of all: steering wheels. They have been around forever (arguably the paddle controllers for the 2600) and are obviously useful, but games are forced to allow normal controls because so few people own them.

Re:The Controller

[MBCook]

True. Nintendo introduced the analog stick. They introduced the rumble pack. They introduced the d-pad (before that you only had joysticks and possibly seperate buttons, they put it together in the classic + shape). They added shoulder buttons.

Before Nintendo what did we have? Little joysticks (2600), paddles (2600), and sets of buttons like a telephone pad (Intellivision). Of course, that idea didn't completely die (see the Jaguar pad).

Nintendo seems to bring it all to us. It gets refined by other companies (Sony added the 2nd analog stick, and introduced built in rumble as opposed to an add-on), but Nintendo is the master so far.

Re:The Controller

[shoptroll]

Because they probably expect to dominate the other in the current market, and will let Nintendo go off and do it's own thing?

I've told several people that I'm interested to see if the Revolution controller will become the new standard if the system does well in this console war, which is an idea everyone scoffs at.

Re:The Controller

[blincoln]

Nintendo introduced the analog stick.

The Atari 5200 and the Apple II both had analogue joysticks as standard.

They introduced the d-pad (before that you only had joysticks and possibly seperate buttons, they put it together in the classic + shape).

The Intellivision controllers were d-pads. They were just round instead of a plus.

They added shoulder buttons.

I think this could arguably be from earlier controller designs too. The Colecovision, Intellivision, and Atari 5200 all had buttons that would be "shoulder buttons" if the controller had been held sideways.

IMO Nintendo borrows concepts from other places that weren't ready for prime-time when they were originally introduced. I think their new idea is still in that category, but fortunately I'll get to see for myself if that's the case or not.

Re:The Controller

[AuMatar]

Nintendo had the first analog thumbstick, different from joystick.

The Nintendo D pad was digital, as compared to the analog Intellivision. Very different gameplay from the two. Sega Genesis used an analog only because N had the patent on digital

Re:The Controller

[Judge_Fire]

The Intellivision controllers were d-pads. They were just round instead of a plus.

But they had 16 directions, equally accessible, without needing to hold down two buttons as in d-pad diagonals. It was a great controller.

J

Re:The Controller

[Guppy06]

"Both the PS and the Saturn got analog controllers after launch (ostensibly because they saw how good the N64's analog stick helped things). Now both controllers got a lot of use, much more than most add-on peripherals. The fact that those controllers started being bundled with the consoles did help quite a bit."

True, but try to find a PlayStation game that required the analog stick. Just about every published PSX game I can think of was playable with the old digital pads, simply because there was still no guarantee everybody had a DualShock.

Sega had the right idea for helping with analog stick penetration: include it with a game like NiGHTs.

Other Mentions

[MBCook]

I can't wait for the Revolution. The PS3 and the 360 are nice, but they are more of the same. The Revolution is the one that really interests me.

However, I just saw a article on Kotaku that says a top guy from Valve is very excited about the Revolution (as is Kojima).

Plus, apparently Miyamoto hinted at that same event that there is still some big feature of the Revolution that is under-wraps. Considering what they've already showed us, I can't wait to see what else they've got up their sleeves.

El Controller & El Price

[Anonymous Coward]

Any word on what the revolution will cost? I'm hoping it's in to $200 range, that'd be sweet & affordable.

Also, what's the big deal about the controller? The only revolutionary thing about it that I've heard is that it's got a gyroscopic motion detector. Is there anything else, or should I be more excited about gyroscopes?

Re:El Controller & El Price

[SharpFang]

Yes, you should be more excited. Gyroscopes, accelerometers plus some kind of positioning system. Full six degrees of freedom at wide movement range and full 360 degrees rotation range. As opposed to classic joystick-like manipulator, with 2 degrees of freedom and maybe 30 degrees rotation range.
That means the manipulator can act as: Knife, gun, pen, mouse, fishing rod, joystick, driving grip (motorbikes), tennis rocket, and mostly everything you hold in hand and move around, that doesn't give you important force feedback that can't be simulated with rumble. Possibly, as a sword it would suck, but it's possible to use as one too.

Re:El Controller & El Price

[NanoGator]

"but I don't think this is some miracle controller that we'll wonder how ever did without..."

Can't say I agree with that. I just tried to play the XBOX 360 demo game... err.. forget the name but it's a WWII game where ya run around and shoot etc. Couldn't stand trying to aim my gun. I ached badly for the Rev controller.

Re:El Controller & El Price

[Sage of Lightning]

"Also, what's the big deal about the controller? The only revolutionary thing about it that I've heard is that it's got a gyroscopic motion detector. Is there anything else, or should I be more excited about gyroscopes?" The Reveloution will sense the controller's postion in relation to the TV, not just the tilt, full detection in X,Y, and Z axis.

Re:El Controller & El Price

[SetupWeasel]

You do not understand the level of control this offers. You see only the motion aspect. Think about the pointing possibilities, and imagine the kinds of games that could benefit from such control.

Let me put it this way, I think that one of the genres that will benefit most from the revolution controller is traditional sports games. The pointing will be the key.

Re:El Controller & El Price

[AuMatar]

I can see some definite sports uses. Want to pass? You don't have to remember what button is what teammate- just point at the reciever. Sounds like it would be good for qb and basketball games.

Re:Are you sure about that?

[Boogaroo]

I'm a bit tired at the moment, but I seem to recall there being two radio thingys to stick next to the TV.
Triangulation would be the method used, it's not optical. No way could an LED interface do what Nintendo is having these controllers do. The Power Glove was IR, I know(I actually did pretty well with the thing playing Zelda 2), but unless Nintendo's come up with magic to improve IR these are guaranteed to be RF.

Re:Games?

[AuMatar]

Blame it on the utter lack of anything new except a processing boost on any of the other systems.

Re:Games?

[jchenx]

No public footage. However, several demos were shown to the press (http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-15143-2567- x-x-x). It sounded like it was more "proof of concept" type of stuff. We'll have to see how it pans out in the end.

Re:More of the same

[justchris]

Actually, you're blatantly incorrect.

Unless you're going to tell me that Super Mario Bros. is the same game as Mario 64.

Perhaps the original Legend of Zelda is the same game as Ocarina of Time, or perhaps it'd be better to compare it to Zelda 2?

There is a difference between franchises and sequels. GTA3 is in the same franchise as GTA2, but isn't really a sequel. They had the technology to improve the game, and made it a different game, but with a similar name.

Mario has Mario Party, Paper Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Baseball and so on. They're part of the same franchise, but they're hardly sequels.

That being said, there are 7 Mario Parties now, true sequels, all basically the same game. I personally couldn't stomach more than one of those, but just because you dont' like sequels, doesn't mean everyone else hates them. What's more, with the revolution controller, we can look forward to something new even in sequels. I plan to pick up Mario Party for the Revolution, which will be the first one I've picked up since the original, because it will likely have sufficiently different gameplay (at least in the minigames) to make it worthwhile.

Myself, I actually own more PS2 games than Gamecube games, but then I'm a big fan of RPGs and Strategy games.

Apparently you haven't been reading the news much

[ianscot]

I don't see how Nintendo is any more innovative than anyone else in regards to software

Personally I don't think Nintendo's been any more innovative than anyone else in the colors they use for their AC adapters, either, as long as we're limiting the discussion to score "points."

Yeah, it is kind of hard to say that the software's no different when no games have been announced for the new machine. But apparently you didn't notice that the Revolution controller is something new and completely unlike the "We smooshed existing controllers a little" offerings from Sony and MS? Apparently you didn't notice that, between the DS and the few public features of the Revolution, Nintendo surely is encouraging unique programming styles? There's a whole bevy of interesting games using the DS's stylus control, including surgery titles where you make sutures by zig zagging with it. The Revolution controller's tech demos were more interesting than anything MS has ever done.

You're right that the third party problem is what Nintendo has to get past. But the games you cite as examples of moribund franchises with nothing but re-tweaked graphics are not particularly good examples of that. If you want a mediocre franchise resting on its laurels, Zelda isn't the place to look. (Hello, EA sports? Maybe you could stop adding polygons to Shaq's bald pate and make rebounding physically possible one of these years.)

If these latest Nintendo systems get wiped out in the marketplace, we can count on the industry basically being mired in utter mediocrity for a good while. Sony and MS are battling for marketshare and have no love of the games. Nintendo is the indie film circuit next to the Hlooywood studio competition.