Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Sony Develops Buckyball Fuel Cell

Posted by Zonk on from the used-to-make-ringworlds-too dept.

Jonny Marx wrote to mention a post over at Digital World Tokyo detailing Sony's latest fuel cell technology, which uses Fullerenes (Buckyballs) to achieve a lot of power in a little space. From the article: "... The technology looks like a significant step in the right direction toward the development of DMFCs powerful enough to supplement or replace lithium batteries for handheld gadgets. Methanol leakage and power output have been the devilish details that have stopped DMFCs becoming widespread, along with regulations that are still being hammered out to allow methanol to be carried aboard passenger aircraft, and a methanol fuel infrastructure, i.e. being able to pick up refills at Japan's ubiquitous konbini (convenience stores) for example."

15 of 188 comments (clear)

  1. Carry a fuel can with you? by jimmyhat3939 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Is it just me, or is anyone else weirded out by the notion of carrying around a tin full of methanol to power up your gadgets? Can you really imagine being, say, on a plane or in a subway and whipping out a can of this stuff to "top off" your gadgets?

    Realistically, I think they'll have to develop some kind of disposable delivery system, maybe something that looks like batteries, that you jam into your gadget and throw away when it's out of fuel (or maybe it could be refillable). Question would be, how much fuel do you need to give you, say, 15 hours of play time? Would it fit in one or two double-A size batteries, or would you need to carry around a jug of the stuff?

    --
    Free Conference Call -- No Spam, High Quality
    1. Re:Carry a fuel can with you? by ciroknight · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think it's just you. Can you imagine what life would be like if some biological machines had to carry around some fuel to top off their own tanks from time to time? Yeah, that's right, we do the same thing carrying around a snickers as you'd be doing carrying around a tin of methanol-and-buckministerfullerene-laced gellatin.

      Most likely this technology would be rechargeable; soak it in a special bath and it "recharges". Of course, in order not to deal with volitale chemicals at home, you'd send it off to have that done (or maybe it'll even be disposable; the chemicals don't sound too bad, but I dunno about that fullerene). And I'm certain if it's even being considered as a fuel, it's going to have a decent charge cycle.

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    2. Re:Carry a fuel can with you? by David+Hume · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Is it just me, or is anyone else weirded out by the notion of carrying around a tin full of methanol to power up your gadgets?
      The year is 1908. One man on horseback is talking to another men on horseback as they see their first Model T Ford.

      Sam says, "Is it just me, or is anyone else weirded out about driving around while sitting on top of a tank of gasoline?"

      "No, partner, it ain't just you. Flicker may gave me trouble at times, but at least I know he's not going to explode," replies Dusty.

      Sam, thinks and says, "It's not like I'm I'm afraid or nothing, but it looks like those things can go pretty damn fast, and there are more and more of them every day. Can you imagine the things running into each other, each loaded with gasoline? Can you imagine the fires and such?"
      --
      Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
    3. Re:Carry a fuel can with you? by shmlco · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Yeah, to me this is going off in entirely the wrong direction. Which would you rather do? Plug your notebook into any available electrical outlet to recharge it, or continually buy gallons of fuel at the store just so you can bring them home and use them to fill up little fuel cells?

      Maybe if they can scale it up for automobiles the technology will be worthwhile, but for consumer devices? No way.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    4. Re:Carry a fuel can with you? by jacksonj04 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But things like phones, cameras, MP3 players and PDAs usually have a Li-Ion battery which can be easily recharged by docking station, plug in cable or (potentially in the future) induction chargers. Fuel cells of any flavour have no such 'easy' top-up system unless there's a way to run the fuel of your choice to standardised wall sockets, and then to the device.

      However, I can see the benefits of using them as top-up devices for an internal battery, for example you dock your PDA and it charges the Li-Ion using standard mains. When you're out and about, it drains the main battery first and when that runs low(ish) it uses the fuel cartridge to top it up. You then have say a half full main battery and an easily swappable fuel cartridge which can be bought at any store, much like AAs nowadays. However, if you have mains available regularly (Like I dock my PDA every night) then your fuel cell is only used as a backup.

      Empty cartridges could perhaps be traded in for a discount on full ones, and then be refilled and repackaged externally.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
  2. I'd buy when it becomes available... by trudyscousin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...but I've decided to cut my nose off to spite my face by boycotting Sony because of Sony BMG's recent DRM-o-rama.

    Seriously, this is the Sony I once knew and loved, when it did things like this all the time. Maybe those of us boycotting the entire company because of last month's debacle should adjust things a bit?

    --
    Those who can, do. Those who can't, write technology blogs.
    1. Re:I'd buy when it becomes available... by Plunky · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The real question should be, what's the purpose of the boycott? To kill the company or to make them change their ways? Everyone's answer would probably be different, but to me, a successful boycott would mean the company would apologize and change their ways to make the consumers happier.

      Yeah, but how likely is the company to actually change its spots?

      On a related issue, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestle_boycott about a boycott of a major (probably bigger than Sony?) company that has been going on for nearly 30 YEARS. For many years (in the UK at least) you did not see Nestle written on any consumer products because they just would not sell - in recent years they have reintroduced the name (in small writing at first, getting bigger each year) on many chocolate products (KitKat, Yorkie, ...) which I welcome because it makes it easier to not buy them, heh. I know the Wiki article seems to indicate that Nestle has changed, but then the tone of the article seems to be treading delicately and I took that to imply that it has been influenced by lawyers from the big corp..

      cynically,
      plunky

  3. Re:So... by Pantero+Blanco · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not necessarily. We just realize that there are good things and bad things that come out of corporations. Then we try to decide which ones are heavier.

  4. Too bad... by ConfusedGuy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's too bad that Richard Smalley, co-discoverer of the buckmeisterfullerene, died a few weeks ago. I'm sure he would have loved to finally see some of his research hitting practical consumer markets.

    Rice University hasn't been the same without him. He was sort of a big deal around here.

  5. What about the weight? by t0qer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I love flying Electric RC stuff. One of the major considerations for an RC power system is weight, which is why NIcd is going out, and LiPo is all the rage now.

    The article was really scant on details, does anyone know approximately what the weight of this device will be? Will fuel cells be able to replace typical LiPo batteries in RC aircraft?

    PS, typing this live from my Karaoke show, stop by and say hi :)

  6. How much power does this have? by abigsmurf · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They're using an extremely unusual way of representing the power but lets have a stab at working out how close this is to a battery. 100milliwatts/hrs per square centimetre. Assume a device has a surface area of 4cmx5cm where the stuff could be placed, thats 20cm^2 so that's 2watt hrs. A rechargable NiMH AA is 1.2volts and can go up to 2500mah so 1.2volts * 2.5amps = 3watt hrs So this currently provides 2/3 the power of an AA in a surface area roughly the size of a battery compartment for two AA's. Not a bad start but it needs to get at least twice as efficient for it to be able to compete with lithium- cells

    1. Re:How much power does this have? by automatix · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A capacitor can be measured using area, yet how closely you pack the layers determines its volume. Let's assume we can pack a layer of this magic stuff and its insulation/fat in 1mm thickness, and our compartment is 10mm thick. Then we have 20cm^2 * 10 = 200cm^2 of "area", and (assuming your maths is right) 30watt hours - which is a significant improvement.

  7. Re:So... by Sithech · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Only until people discover the RFID chip in each cell that's hooked to a micro GPS receiver and calls home so that it can be remotely deactivated if your leave the country or violate other terms of the licensing agreement.

  8. Warp and Weft Speed Ahead by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Interesting

    These buckyfilm batteries still have a way to go. At 100mWh:cm^2, rolled around gaps for methanol flow, they might get 1W:cm^2, which is 3.6Mj:liter. Battery volumetric energy density about 1Mj:l, while the same (biased) source reports their own sodium borohydride offers 26.3Mj:l, (over 7x), while the more practical and directly comparable DMFCs they mention from their competitors offer about 17.3Mj:l (4.8x).

    The buckyfilm offers a flexible material, which combined with tactile sensor fabrics and flexible displays will make mobile computing even more convenient. With this early effort already within 20% of the efficiency of inflexible DMFCs, we might be very close to smart clothes and upholstery, integrating computing into all common devices without transforming them into "computers". That might sound pretty dull, but "pedestrian" has come to mean both "completely ordinary" and "conveniently mobile". Fabric is one of the older technologies on which our civilization is based, and revolutionized us when we became smart. Maybe its time to do it again by returning the favor.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  9. God and Buckyballs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The co-inventor of Fullerenes and Nobel Prize winner
    in Chemistry, Dr. Richard Smalley, rejected evolution
    and championed the theory of Intelligent Design. The
    following is a link containing the remarks of Dr. Hugh
    Ross at Richard Smalley's memorial service:

    http://www.reasons.org/about/staff/richard_smalley _funeral.shtml

    The "unamed" Nobel Laureate in the following article is
    Smalley:

    http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/ 160

    For background on Dr. Hugh Ross see here:

      http://www.reasons.org/about/staff/ross.shtml

    Any time the subject of Intelligent Design comes up here
    on Slashdot we are bombarded by people who insist that
    Intelligent Design is only for stupid people who are
    not "real" scientists. The above two are very much real
    scientists and are only two of thousands of real scientists
    around the world who see Intelligent Design as the most
    plauseable, and scientifically correct view of humans,
    the earth, and the cosmos.