Microsoft Plays 'Big Brother' With Xbox Live

Steve from Hexus writes "HEXUS.gaming reports that Microsoft's XBox LIVE on the XBox 360 is giving away far more information than is necessary. From the article: 'When we first realised the extent and detail of information that was being shared with other Xbox Live users, we did a bit of investigating. With the boss on the other end of the phone, I skipped about through my Xbox 360's functions, each time challenging the boss to tell me what I was doing. Using Media Connect, he told me just a few seconds after I had started that I was viewing pictures... then playing music... then on the Xbox 360 Dashboard and then that I was in Xbox Live Marketplace looking for something to download. The sad thing is, he was right every time!' This information isn't confined to people on your friends list either."

Comments

Umm

[RoadDoggFL]

Didn't RTFA yet, but Xbox Live lets you appear offline, so what's the problem here?

Re:Umm

[vcv]

Like oh my god, someone will know I'm listening to music, or editing my options! THIS IS AN INVASION OF MY PRIVACY.

Re:Umm

[voice_of_all_reason]

Personally, the feeling is more like "They're doing something they know most people would rather not submit to, and some people are fanatically opposed to. But the information makes them money -- more than it does alienate users. So screw the customers."

Re:Umm

[TheWanderingHermit]

I really don't see why anyone is surprised at this. Microsoft has a proven and long track record. Ever since they first started in business, they do what is good for them, whether it hurts the customers overall or not. It's like the schoolyard bully -- kids are smart enough to know that when the bully suddenly starts doing something nice for you, it's to get something from you. There have been a number of cases of Microsoft using their products to obtain information from their customers or trying to control their customers and what is done with their products. Why would anyone expect them to not do that?

I remember when I finally upgraded from my Amiga to a system I could run Windows 95 on. I was thrilled and had no reason to doubt Microsoft or anything about them, but, after watching them over the years, I learned that their business model has never focused on quality of product, security, or anything that helps the customer, just on brute force. They are the schoolyard bully, have proven it many times, and there is no way I will consider buying their products until I see the light dawning on them that it is possible to treat your customers with respect. (The only thing I've bought from them in 5 years is 1 copy of each version of Windows I needed to test my software for my clients -- and that is all it is used for -- testing the final product before it is shipped to clients. And, no, I'm not using pirated copies of their work!)

Re:Umm

[generic-man]

If you're "fanatically opposed to" Microsoft and its business practices, you're not exactly in the market for an Xbox 360 -- except if you plan to put Linux on it.

Re:Umm

[snuf23]

I think this is supposed to be touted more as a feature than an evil thing. Its supposed to let you take a look at people you play with and see "oh he's playing halo, I'll jump in", or "oh hes watching a movie, I won't bug him".
I'm not agreeing with how it's implemented just saying that this is supposed to be one of those "community building" types of features of Live.

Re:Umm

[RoadDoggFL]

"RoadDoggFL is playing online in Halo 2" is NOT personal information. TFA is a huge overreaction.

Re:Umm

[Dogers]

OH DEAR GOD, EVERYONE CAN SEE WHAT I'M DOING!!!!!111 WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!1111ONEONE

I'm posting this under the first post, to let people know the flagrant abuse Microsoft are giving their customers.

It's not like Microsoft let you change the settings, or anything..

I mean, geez, why didn't make an obvious heading of "Privacy and Friends", perhaps under a sensible "Family Settings/XBox Live Controls" main header, so that parents can control what other people can tell about their kids?

Damn Microsoft.

I would've read the article but...

[hal2814]

hal2814
Rep ***
Gamescore 25
Zone Concentration
Status
Offline
On the toilet

So?

[jclast]

XBOX 360s are produced by Microsoft. Live is a service provided by Microsoft.

Why do we seem to think it's wrong for them to monitor how their subscribers use their service?

And when it comes down to it, do you really care that any random Live user knows that you're looking at pictures instead of playing Kong?

Re:So?

[HTH NE1]

Why is it a problem that other users can see what you do on Live?

It's a problem when those other users are in your locality, looking for the right time to break into your home while you're distracted, maybe to inflict some non-virtual fragging on your camping ass.

Or if the company you work for decides playing violent video games violates some morals clause, finds out your Live ID, and decides to fire you for playing Quake 4 at home.*

* Companies are firing people for smoking at home (and failing a drug test for tobacco); with all the hype about violent games making people violent, there is a change to make such a policy stick under the guise of maintaining workplace safety.

Re:So?

[The NPS]

I think on you surface, you're definitely right. I don't really care if people know what I'm doing. I don't think most people care specifically about that. What they care about is what can be done with the information. When it comes to things like genetic screening for health care, or political sanctions for religous beliefs the problems people have with lack of privacy become apparent. When it's something mundane like if microsoft knows you're playing a video game it becomes harder to present an actual scenario where that might be a problem.

I think, however, it might be fair to say that when it comes to invasion of privacy it turns sour so often and so easily that people are bitter and cynical about it in general. Sure, it doesn't matter if microsoft knows what I'm doing on my X-Box, but that begs the question, why do they need to know and what will they be doing with that information?

Re:So?

[vertinox]

Why do we seem to think it's wrong for them to monitor how their subscribers use their service?

Well, what kind of wrong?

Legally: They are most likley in the right.
Morally: A bit more gray, but no one is going to proverbial hell over this nor do most people care.
Courteous: I'd say they are in the wrong on this part. It is a bit rude of Microsoft to monitor this and let others do as well without your permission.

Remember a company has to be in right of all three of these if they want to run a business, keep the media on their side, and keep customers.

Re:So?

[HTH NE1]

Other more mundane issues are losing friends and relationships because you told them you were visiting a sick relative but XBOX Live tells them you were at home playing Forza Motorsport.

What does the world think when your XBOX Live says you're looking at pictures when everyone knows you don't own a digital camera?

The article still has the point that this should not be shared with others by default, or a clear choice should have been prompted at initial setup. Why no up-front choice? Because the profiles aren't as useful unless people let this information be shared. There should at least be some parity, informing you in real time when someone else is watching you in real time.

You can be sure someone out there is working on how to use this to market-target or spear-phish you.

Re:So?

[RoadDoggFL]

What? It's not obvious enough that your information is available to someone when you yourself can see what others are doing? This is insane, I don't see anybody complaining that countless forums have this EXACT SAME feature!

Nevermind...

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

I'm tempted to say "This is news?". I mean, come on, it's Microsoft we're dealing with here. If they don't do something like this on purpose, they do by accident anyway. This should have been assumed as in "it's a feature", you know?

Yawn

[generic-man]

BBSes did this more than 10 years ago and UNIX's "w" command does something very similar.

User         Doing           Logged in
generic-man  Playing LORD    15 mins ago
d00d         Reading mail    20 mins ago
amigarox     Chat            30 mins ago

As a former SysOp, I don't know what the big deal is here.

Re:Yawn

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

"This is Slashdot" (hyperventilate, spit, huff, puff, wave arms around)...

Blown out of proportion?

[The Infidel]

I just dont see the big deal here. Of course, adding the option to cloak your activities would be a good add-in, but it's not like your photo album is visible to anyone else or your merchant account info is public.
This hate-everything-Micorsoft-regardless-of-whether-my -argument-is-valid mentality doesnt illustrate anything except the acrimony of the person expressing it.

A recent appendment

[WankersRevenge]

found at the end of the article ... make what you want of it ... seems like a non-issue.

With thanks to the several e-mails, in particular the one out of a dozen that didn't just hurl abuse, we'd like to point out that there IS is way to adjust these privacy settings between everyone, friends only or no-one at all.

The options to change the privacy settings can be accessedby selecting your gamer profile whilst in the Xbox LIVE blade and then editing your profile. Whilst this provides the degree of privacy many users may well want, it is the opinion of the Team HEXUS that these options should be an 'opt-in' option not an 'opt-out'.

Privacy Options

[yotaku]

First off, if anyone bothered to actually read the whole article you would see that they updated the article when they realised that they can set their privacy settings to now tell anyone what they are doing on their xbox, or to just tell people on their friends list. So if you are concerned about this, just turn it off.

Secondly, who really cares if people know that you are watching a movie, or looking at pictures. For one thing, you do not even know if the user is actually at the system, of if the xbox is just idling. And do you actually care if people know you are watching a movie? Its not like its announcing to the world that you are watching the latest chick flick, or flipping though your porn collection. It just says watching a movie, or viewing pictures. Its like your neighbors seeing you leave the house. Oh my god!, they know I'm leaving the house -- my privacy!!

Re:Privacy Options

[mosschops]

So if you are concerned about this, just turn it off.

But why the heck is this turned ON by default??

if you don't like it, then don't use it

[VendingMenace]

Here is what I don't understand. No one is forcing people to buy xboxes or to connect them to the internet. SO, if people are disturbed by their supposed privacy invation by way of LIVE, then the solution seems quite simple -- don't use it.

Seems like a non-issue to me

Hopefully...

[kisielk]

it doesn't tell people WHAT you are watching. That could lead to some... uncomfortable situations...

Now watching: "Underage Interracial Horses Gone Wild" ;)