Competing to Work for Microsoft

theodp writes "Addressing 5,000 developers in Bangalore, Bill Gates announced the Code4Bill contest, a nationwide talent hunt which will begin in January and last eight months. Twenty finalists will receive internships with Microsoft India before one Superhero is selected to join Mr. Gates's own team."

Comments

Why?

[JonTurner]

I don't get it. If you're the best out of 5000 coders, why would you want to work for any company, let alone Microsoft? Seriously. If you're that good, go out there and start your own company and in ten years people will compete to work with you. You'll get to make all the decisions, do everything "the right way", etc. All of the risk, all of the reward.

Re:Why?

[jmcmunn]

Because not every great coder is a great business man. In this day, you have to have some very smart (financially and fiscally) people on your side as well. Besides, after winning this thing you could go do your internship and then quit a year later. The "fame" from the contest will likely provide some sort of venture capital which would hopefully make it easier to start the business anyway.

Plus, think of all the chicks you'd get...

Re:Why?

[Stormwatch]

Think about it this way... is Bill Gates a hell of a coder with decent business skills, or a hell of a businessman with decent coding skills?

Re:Why?

[WindBourne]

Actually, it would be a good opportunity for Google to step forward and announce that they will sign the 2'nd and 3'rd place winners. Who wants to work for bill if you can work for google? These days, Google is where the real coder go and all the fun is at. After all, Google encourages you to do your own thing.

Re:RIP TIMECOP

[lennyhell]

"O tay, he was very nice! I think so! Do you think so? Come on now! I tink it is very sad timecop died... I sad, very sad... dest din deace duddy!!! I am torry he is gone."

What about when India gets outsourced?

[radiotyler]

Mr. Gates is something of a celebrity in India, where technology outsourcing has provided well-paid jobs and changed the fortunes of thousands of middle-class Indians.

I wonder if all of these programmers in India are even slightly concerned that he ditched out on the (I'm assuming here) more expensive U.S. programmers to hire "more cost effective" employees in India?

They might want to think about what happens when ex-Soviet free states reaches a technology level that either surpasses India, or become cheap enough labor wise to be worth the loss of quality. I honestly don't see a lack of qualified programmers here in the U.S. for Microsoft to hire. And I hate seeing companies that have no reason to expand their profit margins start outsourcing just for the sake of making that extra buck.

Re:What about when India gets outsourced?

[univgeek]

I'm in India, and no I don't see any reason to be even slightly concerned because we're supposedly taking away your God-given right to technology jobs.

When did you guys lose your "Give me your poor, tired and huddled masses ...' and 'if you work you can make it big' attitudes and get this entitlement attitude?

What should we have done when you colonised us and took away our wealth built up over centuries, if not millenia? When India alone accounted for a few dozen percent of world trade? Now that you guys are on top, you'd like to keep a third of humanity down forever?

And did you even consider in your pompousness that some of the software that MS does might be for the local market? Or do you even realise that there's a world outside the US, and languages other than English? And that developing software in the local languages might, conceivably, be easier in that country?

And, the ex-Soviet states are already technologically and educationally above India/China. What we do have is a huge mass of humanity trying desperately for three square meals a day, clothing and a roof over the head. Considering this, I think with our democracy, we're doing pretty well thank you.

Come to think of it there are/were many democracies doing quite well until some pompous pricks decided that they were not right-wing enough. Hmm, can you name the pricks?

One would think that if you post on /. you'd realize the number of unsolved problems in *every* field of science and engineering around us, and welcome the larger number of hands available to solve these problems.

Don't you want to get off this Earth? Don't you want mankind to ensure its safety with colonies off the Earth? Do you think that's going to happen when a third of humanity is without any technology?

And for those who think we have no home-grown tech companies, wait and watch. There are companies capable to giving any MNC a run for its money, and is as ruthless as any other (not that I'm happy about this). Do you know the owners of some of the largest trans-oceanic fiber networks are now Indian companies? That some of the largest steel producers in the world are from India? One of the top-three media (cd/dvd/cdr) manufacturers in the world?

Napolean once said "China is a sleeping giant. Let her sleep, for when she wakes she will shake the world." A large portion of humanity is trying very hard to regain its due. The world order will change. Be prepared for it.

This probably came off as something of a rant. So be it. When I see people struggling for their lives everyday, and see someone complaining because they theoretically 'lost' their cushy job to the 'third-world' only because of cost, I just lose it :-/

Re:What about when India gets outsourced?

[damsa]

I didn't know the US colonized India. I blame the right wing education system that really must suck.

What people are bothered by is that large corporations expect certain level of education out of the system in the US. But mega corporations like MS avoid millions in taxes by setting up in places like Nevada. So people would have less problems with Mr. Gates, or Mr. Walmart, Mr. Gm if they paid taxes for better schools, and infrastructure instead of complaining about high wages, health insurance and lack of quality labor in America. Another problem is, if there are so many that lack skills in the US, then why does he hire temps, it doesn't make sense, why not train these temps to be full time employees, he doesn't do that to save money, he is not going to India to get better programmers, he is doing it to save money, once India realizes that, they don't have to beg at the teat of large mega corps and start their own firms and stop being an outsourcing bitch.

Re:What about when India gets outsourced?

[starm_]

Of course hes going there to save money, but the reason he can do that is that indians with the same level of education are poor and in need hence they are willing to work for less. They are in need of money and deserve these jobs much more than the americans. In a free market, jobs tend to go to the poorest regions which just serve to make it richer thus balancing wealth distribution. If it wasn't for that mechanism, the poor would never get a chance. And with the money you will save next time you buy MS products made in India or from the capital gain generated by the MS stocks you own, you can give to US charity or spend in local businesses to create jobs.

Re:What about when India gets outsourced?

[harves]

First I think he was pointing out that "the same culture that permeates the US also colonised India". He was referring to a mindset, not a label of Britain or America. But anyway...

It's odd for you to argue "Microsoft doesn't pay taxes in America, so how can they expect decent programmers in America if they don't fund schools?" By some miracle Microsoft doesn't pay much to schools in India, yet they find decent programmers there. Perhaps it's not Microsoft's tax avoidance that's the problem?

Truth be told . . .

[kratei]

If I was a poor middle class Indian geek I don't think I would mind interning with microshaft for a year. Would you? It certainly wouldn't hurt to have "winner of the Code4Bill" contest on your resume. But, give me a break, can't he come up with a better name for this contest? It sounds both egotsitical and condescending to me.

Bill's always whining about American CS...

[bstarrfield]

So why doesn't he have such a program in the United States? Funny, though, I've never seen the American - or Canadian, or British version - of the Code4Bill contest. Guess expensive developers aren't really wanted at Microsoft.

How are we supposed to motivate college students to enter computer science when the (sadly) premier computer software maker stages competitions to find the very same programmers who may well replace American workers. What bloody hypocrisy Gates has to complain about the state of American CS while at the same time doing his damn best to destroy it.

Bill can recruit programmers from anywhere he wants. But he can try to find the best here, too.

Re:Bill's always whining about American CS...

[Jester99]

So why doesn't he have such a program in the United States? ... How are we supposed to motivate college students to enter computer science when the (sadly) premier computer software maker stages competitions to find the very same programmers who may well replace American workers.

It's called ImagineCup.

And this year it is being held in India, as well, actually. But it's a world-wide competition for college students in CS. I met one of the world finalists -- he was thrilled by it. But the point is, there are plenty of competitions. And there are plenty of ways for American students to get ahead. The fact that Bill's sponsoring an additional competition in India is hardly a slap in the face of American students. There are literally hundreds of engineering competitions for American students to enter in. Just because you're not aware of all of Microsoft's efforts doesn't mean you're allowed to criticise them out of ignorance.

Real reason: Distract effort from KDE India

[bstadil]

KDE India was apparently just formed.

Draw your own conclusion ;-)

Kde India Announcement

translation...

[JoeCommodore]

Here's my take on it:

Hey, you 5,000 developers, why don't you do a bunch of Microsoft Windows coding and propoganda for us* (for free) and we in turn will employ a handfull of you for all your combined effort. Now get started!

* all entries and innovation become the property of Microsoft.

It's called cheap labor

[Harker]

I mean, why hire all those people here in the US of A, and help the economy just a little bit, when you can support a foreign economy and pay 1/10th (that's probably an exaggeration) the amount while your at it.

Typical of way too many companies here in the US, they'd rather save money and make the bottom line look better, than actually support their own economy. It's not like the bigwigs have to worry about budgets or anything...

[/soapbox]

H.

Reality TV

[DigiShaman]

Sounds more like The Apprentice (reality TV show). This will be interesting how geeks backstab eachother for a seat next to the very "one" they loath.

Re:Reality TV

[toddbu]

Just wait until one of them gets hit in the head by a ceiling tile. Omarosa, move over. (Actually, we call her "Osamarosa" over here.)

This is an example of why Microsoft has problems

[surfdaddy]

If they are focusing at coding, then they are missing the big picture.

Nobody would argue that coding is important, and that you'd like to have good individuals to code applications.

But if you look at Microsoft's products, and compare them to Apple, what are the differences? Coding?

No, the differences are:
* a focus on integration of the hardware and software subsystem
* a focus on ease of use, not quality or rapidity of coding
* a focus on agility of teams. How many versions of Apple's OS have come out since the last Windows update?

I don't see a "coding contest" making a big difference. And it's not like Microsoft is running out of cash and has to shave costs by getting cheaper coders. They're doing it because they aren't growing enough. Cutting staff costs is treating the symptom. The actual disease is bloated code, not much creativity, integration, or elegance in their products. Coding contests aren't going to solve that.

Re:Give me the winner's code, and

[NilleKopparmynt]

I totally agree with you but I think your aim is a bit off. I do not see the engineers from India as competitors. I see it as my managers just gives my job away to anyone they feel like. If my manager does not value my competence there is nothing I can do about it.

The company I work for outsource projects to Wipro and TCS. The thing that is strange is that any person they send is automatically accepted as an engineer without any tests or screening what so ever. Ofcourse this is now being abused and I am now seeing 24 year old graduates arriving into mission critical projects.

The problem is that management is seeing software development as hard as digging a ditch. You just give anyone (preferebly the cheapest one) a shovel and off he/she go. The thing that is most funny is that in the company I work for it is all based on a lie. My manager plus a senior manager I spoke to 2 days ago claims that I cost 4 times as much as a resource from India. This is not true. What they are comparing is my funny money internal cost with the real fee from Wipro or TCS. What I really cost is 1.5 times. (+ the cost for my office) Of the cost for my salary the Swedish government is taking 55% and when ever I buy something I pay around 25% sales tax. (Food is 12.5% and taxi/bus is 6%) so in the end I might earn LESS than my Indian counterpart.

I want to finish off my rant with a quote from a management book, Object Technology - A Manager's Guide. Page 11. I think this quote explaines quite well managements view on us software developers. "For most business people, polymorphism is so obvious that they have a hard time seeing what is so special about it"

Re:Give me the winner's code, and

[dodobh]

Most good people I know refuse to work for Wipro and TCS. There are a few at Infosys, but that is about a handful. The coders you get sent there are probably low rung, cheap people who get paid a _lot_ more offsite. The Indian developers cost is probably around 300 USD/mth, and he gets about 1200 USD/mth additionally for living out of India.

What Wipro et al bill you for is the sales and management overheads. It might end up being cheaper for your company to just open an office in Pune/Hyderabad and start a local subsidary. You will also get better people.

Let me get this straight

[smchris]

So Code4Bill is meant to throw attention away from open source? And the 20 lucky winners get to work for Microsoft for a year for free?

Crazy world. If these 20 are so smart, why aren't they starting up their own companies to provide open source to schools and wi fi to villages?

Or are these at least _paid_ internships?

economics...

[ameline]

They're
obviously
being
paid
by
the
line.