Java Is So 90s

An anonymous reader writes "Some of you may recall last year's Java vs. LAMP Slashdot flamewar. The fight has now "brewed" (couldn't resist) into the mainstream press at BusinessWeek." From the article: "Yared says developers far and wide are creating a new generation of Internet-based applications with LAMP and related technologies rather than with Java. Can it possibly be that Java -- once the hippest of hip software -- has become a legacy technology, as old and out of style as IBM's (IBM) mainframe computers and SAP's corporate applications? Mounting evidence points to yes. Reports by Evans Data Corp., which does annual surveys of the activities of software developers, show Java use is slipping as LAMP and Microsoft's .NET technology gain traction."

Comments

Don't Flame Me Because I'm Beautiful ...

[eldavojohn]

The second sentence from the original article posted on /. Started as: "Not to start another PHP vs. Java flame war..."

And now begins the second flame war started by said article.

Gentlemen and nerds, prepare your flamethrowers and ectopacks (respectively)...

Begin!

When will I see a constructive article comparing and contrasting the two and inviting a civil conversation and an acknowledgement that there are fans on both sides?

Come on, it's not like this is a religious argument or (possibly worse) a Star Wars vrs. Star Trek argument.

PHP vs. Java

[mysqlrocks]

Here's my take. For most web sites, use PHP. If you need enterprise level stuff, use Java but don't let anyone tell you that PHP is not scalable, that is simply not true. Don't go to .NET - nothing you can really get on .NET then you can't get with Java. Enough said. Flame On.

It is to laugh

[msuzio]

Oh, please.

Java is still in incredibly heavy use in larger-scale systems and internal applications. It doesn't need to be "hip", "trendy", or "LAMP". It just needs to do a job, do it well, and be maintainable. It does that (and more), has still proven fairly easy to scale from small projects to very large, and is still a decent (though not terrific) language.

It also plays well with many other solutions, by virtue of numerous scripting languages which target Java bytecodes, as well as native code integration if you simply cannot get by without some piece of C code (although, there goes easy portability - one of the major benefits).

These articles are just a joke. That they would even use the term "hip" shows that this is far from a serious study.

Re:It is to laugh

[nettdata]

Seriously, if you were going into business for yourself, would you base your application on Java? I sure wouldn't.

Well, I would, and I did. What other language is going to give you the ability to write one hunk of code that will act as a client and/or a server from Linux/Aix/Solaris/HPux/Windows/Mac/etc?

For us, the best tool for the job was Java. Period. End of subject.

But that's what it's all about... determining the best tool for the job, and dealing with the inherent trade-offs.

To say that one language is better than another, without context, is meaningless.

Re:UNIX

[MightyMartian]

What irritates me about these sort of articles is that they seem to indicate that language and platform choice ought to be chosen on how "hip" or "kewl" they are, rather than on the strengths they may offer a project. Java has some very important strengths, and to discount it as "so 90s" is rather like discounting C as so "70s". It's an idiotic metric, and encourages the kind of faddish thinking that sees useful technologies judged solely by what some self-serving magazine editors think is the current sexy language.

Here's a tip. Programming languages and platforms aren't sexy. They are tools. Use .NET if that's the tool that best fits what you need to do, or what your employer requires. Or use Java. Or use COBOL, if that's what fits. Under no circumstances should one use the above standard, which is about on the same level as some twelve year old girl deciding whose pictures are going to adorn her wall.

Java use slipping? You have to be joking

[Decaff]

I can't take this seriously after Java has recently taken over from C++ as the most popular language on sourceforge:
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=12778

Java is a popular and versatile language. Software development involves far more than the very restricted aspects covered by LAMP.

Re:The real 90s versus outdated 00s software

[Decaff]

Yes, Java can equal C++ in terms of performance, if you ignore JIT startup lag, ignore the bloated memory footprint, and ignore the insanem performance losses when the garbage collector kicks in.

No.

There is no JIT startup lag in modern VMs - the JIT is not called at startup - it is a background thread.

There is no bloated memory footprint. Java applications (as in J2ME) can run in only a few hundred kilobytes. The simplest standard Java apps can run in only a few MB, which on machines with 256MB or greater is totally insignificant. Server-side apps can securely share the same VM, so can take up even less memory.

There are no performance losses when the garbage collector kicks in on modern VMs, as the garbage collection can run in the background. As proof of this, Java can now be used for real-time applications (such as in aeronautics) where any garbage-collection delay would be disastrous.

Other than that, you are correct.