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Stardust to Return January 15

accessdeniednsp writes "Seven years ago, the Stardust probe was sent to intercept Comet Wild 2, gather dust particles, and return to Earth. Stardust is scheduled to touch down in a Utah desert on January 15. From the article: 'Our mission is called Stardust, in part because we believe some of the particles in the comet will, in fact, be older than the sun,' said Don Brownlee of the University of Washington, the principal investigator of the mission."

14 of 144 comments (clear)

  1. I know this is silly... by Sinryc · · Score: 1, Insightful

    But if there was SOMEWAY for something to be alive in the dust, couldn't it put people in danger? Like, a new life thats sorta like a virus, or bacteria but can live in space. Couldn't bringing all this stuff back to Earth be a tad bit dangerous?

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    1. Re:I know this is silly... by Guppy06 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Stuff rains down on us from space all the time, including comets (at least where "all the time" is in geological terms). If there was something that could be alive on a comet that could harm us, something like it would have come down and killed us all by now.

    2. Re:I know this is silly... by KylePflug · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You'll pardon my ignorance, but isn't a space probe a wee bit bigger than 2 nanometers?

    3. Re:I know this is silly... by ChuckleBug · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're absolutely right. Your suggestion is silly.

      Perhaps, but I think this is a normal, reasonable kind of fear, and we shouldn't try to make people feel stupid for asking questions. This is the biggest problem science faces in getting the public on our side. We need to be less quick in attacking people for not knowing things, and instead show a little empathy and help them learn. There's no sin in not knowing things--the only crime is refusing to accept facts when they are demonstrated.

      I want the public to better understand science. The first step in doing that, I believe, is recognizing people's concerns as understandable, if not scientifically sound. As annoying as the pridefully ignorant are, most people aren't really like that. They just have honest questions, and those questions should be answered without supercilious condescension.

    4. Re:I know this is silly... by bm_luethke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "A life form which evolved to survive on the surface of a comet has zero chance of being successful inside the human body. In order for a life form to evolve to be effective in an environment, it must have exposure to that environment. The viruses which already plague us here on Earth have spent billions of years evolving specifically to attack the other life forms already present on Earth."

      This is pretty much totally correct regardless of your religious or scientific leanings. "random chance" is just as likely to produce an organism that will do well in both environments as "Intelligent guidance" is.

      "Of course, this argument is strongly rooted in evolution. As some other posters have pointed out, if you believe in intelligent design, you might disagree. But then, real-life observations and evidence are overwhelmingly consistent with evolution, not intelligent design, so I think we're safe."

      Eh, you are supposed to be a non-biased observer taking facts into account and you say this? You don't know anything about intelligent design beyond reading those that hate/strongly dislike it.

      I'm no fan of intelligent design, I see no reason for it (science and religion are asking two very different questions - nothing in "evolution" as we know it precludes an intelligent God and this is a useless mix that only serves to muddy scientific study), but what you say is complete and total ignorance or a complete falsehood (either of which I would rather not be attached too).

      Intelligent design focuses on that a supreme all knowing intelligence guides creation whereas evolution is random chance. There isn't much difference between the two otherwise and both are pretty weak in the old "evidence" department on that portion of the theory.

      There are people that corrupt both into All-Knowing Absolute Correct Ideas (intelligent design people who say it invalidates evolution, evolutionist who say it invalidates a god), but both are basing thier idea not on evidence (there is none either way, though from a pure scientific point Occam's razor rules and the "random chance" side wins - though that is FAR from proof) but on faith. At best the only testable and verifiable (what is needed for it to be science) is that things change based on environmental pressure due to genetics and recombination - that does not mention anything about *why* this occurs. There is no way to test random chance vs all powerful controller, thus it is not science to declare one anything other than a hypothesis (one can not make it to theory without testing).

      If you think evolution precludes a bacteria growing on a comet that is also dangerous to us (but Intelligent design does not) then you are VERY mistaken, nothing in evolution precludes this. It's why NASA (and other space agencies) has such strict guidlines for bringing foreign material into our atmosphere in a protected storage space (vs a large hunk of rock - the heat is considered to kill anything, and if it doesn't I guess it deserves a little human to eat and there is nothing we can do about it anyway).

      That two sides of the debate never seem to grasp this is disheartening about the level of education we recieve about scientific theories, it also shows how difficult it is to seperate "belief" from testable and verifiable science.

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      ------- Sorry about the spelling, I suffer from two problems. Dyslexia makes it difficult to spell well, lazy makes it
    5. Re:I know this is silly... by freeweed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem comes when you try to actually address those fears. The general public doesn't really want our answers, scientifically sound or not.

      The vast majority of people still seem to think airplanes fall out of the sky on a regular basis, and that a car is far safer to be in. They think that terrorism is an actual, credible threat to their lives. They think that stoned babysitters actually do put babies into the oven. They think that mysterious men are out there offering "free perfume samples" which are actually vials of ether.

      Hell, most of them still believe in omnipotent being(s) and willfully ignore evidence to the contrary. People simply do not like to learn that what they believed for most (if not all) of their lives is in fact incorrect, and they will fight tooth and nail to avoid learning that.

      That, and there's a very large motivation for many people to be able to say "Pfft! Scientists! What do they know, anyway!". The default assumption that scientists are in fact idiots, and have entirely ignored the most obvious of dangers, IS something to be scoffed at, I'm sorry.

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      Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
    6. Re:I know this is silly... by rosewood · · Score: 2, Insightful

      1) Site your source or as far as I am concerned, that is a bullshit number pulled out of your ass.
      2) Anyone who makes policy based off of Sci-Fi can go smoke a fag.

    7. Re:I know this is silly... by Temporal · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Intelligent Design would be far more likely to produce bacteria/viruses harmful to us originating from a comet. An intelligent designer can design such things however they like, and could thus think "I'm going do design a life form which could live on a comet but which could also be dangerous to humans!".

      You don't know anything about intelligent design beyond reading those that hate/strongly dislike it.

      I have read arguments for it as presented by the Discovery Institute and others. Invariably, their supposed examples of biological systems which are too complex and "irreducible" are really not. They use obscure cases which the average person knows nothing about (microbiology and such) so that the average person is unable to understand the details of their argument. Real biologists routinely counter their examples by demonstrating how these systems might be evolved.

      Evolution is extremely testable and has been tested in many different ways. This article presents 29+ extremely strong tests which evolution passes. I find prediction 1.3 to be particularly amazing.

      IMO, Intelligent Design is also testable. If we were intelligently designed, we would expect not to see aspects of our design which are utterly bad or easily fixed. In reality, our bodies are full of horrible design. For instance, our pelvises are slanted forward, and the base of our spines must slant back to compensate. This leads to all manner of back pain as we get older. This design flaw makes a lot of sense in evolutionary terms -- we evolved from knuckle-dragging apes -- but no self-respecting engineer would come up with such a design.

      Speaking of our spine: it is composed of a whole bunch of vertebrae, which would be great if we were walking around on four legs and didn't need to support our full weight on it vertically. The flexibility would be perfect for galloping like a horse. But, again, it mostly causes problems for us.

      Oh, and we have too many teeth to fit in our mouth. What's up with that?

      These are just a few small examples. Honestly, I would give God more credit than to think that he designed such poorly-engineered creatures as us.

  2. Re:Very Important For Our Future by Baddas · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Composition of cometary objects isn't as important as their mass, in terms of protecting Earth from impacts.

    Really, the sheer kinetic energy inherent in hyperbolic objects is so large as to make the thought of deflecting them silly.

    For example, a cometary object 1km square would weigh a billion metric tons, and carry ~48 quadrillion Btus (or 1.41117626 * 10^13 kilowatt hours, a number so large it's silly), which would power the entire US for around six months if converted to electricity.

    Basically, all we can do is hope. There's no imaginable engine that could be built on earth and sent to a comet in time to change it's orbit enough to avoid earth.

  3. Re:Here's hoping this one doesn't...... by cyclone96 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Thanks, that's a well appreciated clarification.

    Interesting, I guess I called it a "failure" because I'm looking at it from the engineering side (I'm a NASA engineer - looking through my paradigm "success" means the spacecraft itself worked as designed).

    But overall, the engineering is just a tool to complete the mission, which is science (and clearly there is a lot of good science coming out of Genesis). Sometimes we need to be reminded....

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  4. Re:Very Important For Our Future by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2, Insightful
    For example, a cometary object 1km square would weigh a billion metric tons, and carry ~48 quadrillion Btus (or 1.41117626 * 10^13 kilowatt hours, a number so large it's silly), which would power the entire US for around six months if converted to electricity.

    Umm, the idea isn't to stop the comet; it's to nudge it off course by a few thousand miles. To do that, all you have to do is change it's velocity by say 1 m/s a few months before impact. That would only take 5e11 joules or 140,000 KWh for your comet. That's an amount of energy comparable to what a single gasoline tanker truck can hold.

  5. Re:Very Important For Our Future by KylePflug · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Or you could stop thinking engines and start thinking bombs/projectiles.

  6. Re:Very Important For Our Future by KylePflug · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Exactly what I was thinking. Seems like a few broad, flat, even remotely massive projectiles travelling a few tens of thousands of km/s ought to be able to knock a comet suitably off course, given enough advance notice. Carry up something big and heavy and cheap in the space shuttle and send it off. Or, heck, if circumstances are dire enough, throw chunks of space shuttle or ISS at it.

    If we start planning now, it ought to be relatively easy to get some kind of fairly flexible asteroid deterrent up there. The trick is making it something that isn't also conspicuously similar to an orbital weapon. Dreaming up countermeasures is no good if the other world powers won't let it sit in orbit for fear we might turn it against them.

    I'm no physicist, but couldn't an anti-comet bullet be turned into, say, an anti-city bullet by throwing it around a single AU orbit and back into a terrestrial target? Would there be any way to track such an incoming object without advance notice?

    Now I've lead myself down a rabbit-trail, but couldn't a superpower with a space program conceivable launch a purported comet impactor and surreptitiously swing it around against a city? Would there be any way to prove after the fact what had happened?

    In an age of nuclear weapons, it seems silly to drop rocks from orbit, but still. One wonders.

  7. Re:Very Important For Our Future by tehdaemon · · Score: 2, Insightful
    "Carry up something big and heavy and cheap"

    When it comes to launching things into space, these terms are mutually exclusive.

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