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File-Sharing Winners and Losers of 2005

An anonymous reader writes "A lot happened in the P2P world in 2005 according to Slyck news. From the article: 'BitTorrent soared to new heights while Steve Jobs enjoyed record breaking iPod sales. Yet not everyone shared this success. The RIAA continued its fight against P2P networking with little effect, as Sony-BMG disgraced itself and the DRM concept.'"

23 of 140 comments (clear)

  1. Quick Summary by ndansmith · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Winners: People who enjoy shared music and movies for free.
    Losers: **AAs, whose obsolete business model is faltering
    Biggest Losers: The poor pre-teens and grandparents dragged into court by the **AAs.

    1. Re:Quick Summary by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And what about the people who were legitimately targeted for their file sharing activities?

      And the various Release Groups + Suppliers (who do what they do for free) that got arrested.

      Where do they fit?

      Does society win because those (international) law-breakers were arrested? Do the releasers lose because they got caught? Does the **AA win because they 'got their man.'

      I know this is touchy ground on /. because our desire for moviez and warez makes us a touch hypocritical at times. Hopefully someone can put this into perspective.

      It's pretty short-sighted of Slyck's article to ignore the hardcore Releasers who generate most of the decent content P2P progs have access to.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:Quick Summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Let's correct this once again shall we:

      Winners: People who don't want to pay for music or movies and would rather steal them.
      Losers: Businesses who have a right to sell their products under the protection of copyright laws.
      Biggest Losers: The average consumer who has to deal with excessive DRM because of the losers above.

      It is not the fault of the "winners" that certain businesses refuse to sell their product without draconian restrictions and inflated prices.

    3. Re:Quick Summary by Gadzinka · · Score: 3, Insightful

      US Copyright implementation is getting more and more stupid, but that's besides the point. You forgot to mention that other thing.

      Movies on DVD priced $10-$20 sell like there was not tomorrow. Music on CDs, usually cheaper than movies to produce, doesn't sell for $20+. It doesn't even suprise anyone anymore to find that soundtrack from latest and greatest movie costs more than the movie itself...

      Number of DVD-s bought by me in last couple of years : >200
      Number of CD-s [...] : 3

      Robert

      PS In my country (Poland) you can buy perfectly legal DVDs with movies added to magazines as marketing gimmick. The price of such magazine: $3-$6. And some of them are actually better than the crap that runs in the cinema, with price of such DVD being lower than single movie ticket.

      My last two purchases:

      "Ghost in the Shell": DD5.1 and DTS, JP, EN and PL audio, 20pln (~$6)
      "Battle Royale": DD5.1 and DTS, JP and PL audio, 20pln (~$6)

      The overall effect on the market is that now you can buy even movies from big houses (like Underworld from Sony) for ~$8 in big bookstores, without any tricks, rebates etc.

      There's actually no incentive to burn movies rented or downloaded from the 'net: good quality DVD-R is ~$1.5, rental of hot item is ~$4 and I've actually seen DVDs with lower price in retail than in rental (e.g. Shawn of the Dead lately).

      --
      Bastard Operator From 193.219.28.162
    4. Re:Quick Summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Winners: People who don't want to pay for music or movies and would rather steal them.
      Losers: Businesses who have a right to sell their products under the protection of copyright laws.
      Biggest Losers: The average consumer who has to deal with excessive DRM because of the "winners" above.

      The idea that music or movies can be stolen is an invented notion like "intellectual property" itself, or for that matter, land ownership. (Remember, prior to our arrival, land ownership didn't exist in the US.) People are trying to push the idea on us that copying from computer to computer is the same thing as taking a physical copy from the store. The fact is that these are purely economical and not moral issues. By copying a DVD from BitTorrent you're "potentially not letting the publisher profit from your sale", not "stealing". To me, saying it's wrong to copy media over the Internet is not too far from saying it was wrong to use light bulbs because it reduced the profitability of candlemakers. Just because you are an industry doesn't mean you DESERVE to profit. The people who are really worried now are the publishers, since their industry is content distribution. Their method of said distribution HAS been made obsolete, but they think they are big enough to take on consumers. (Some industries are that big. You think they haven't come out with more electric cars because the technology/demand/infrastructure isn't good enough? Please.)

      Like property ownership, copyrights and patents do serve a purpose, but they weren't created to protect Ashlee Simpson or J.K. Rowling. Article One of the Constitution gives Congress the power to "promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries." The courts may have to decide what "useful arts" are, but I doubt the framers intended that people should have to pay a fee to perform the Happy Birthday song in public. I think code is closer to what they wanted to encompass here. Programming is not science, exactly, but it certainly is useful.
    5. Re:Quick Summary by zurab · · Score: 5, Funny

      Why don't we revise it one more time then:

      Winners: terrorists and murderers
      Losers: patriotic all-American honest corporate cartels
      Biggest losers: Mr. and Mrs. [patriotic] Smith

      Does this labelling do any better for you? Just goes to show that you can label things any way you want to make your "point."

    6. Re:Quick Summary by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 4, Funny

      Typical. The one place where the copyright industry seems to be acting the way people would like, and it's Poland. ;)

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  2. Biggest Winner of 2005? by Chaffar · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Definitely consumers. No DRM for at least a year, online business models proving that they can work, the R*AA losing a case...

    A good year indeed...

  3. The RIAA is listed as 1 of the losers.... by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But is it really?

    P2P is only increasing the popularity of their wares. Much in the manner that pirated MS Windows in China only increases the popularity of Windows in China until comes such a time that Microsoft can demand payment (and crackdowns from the Governement). It might be years away, but at least they aren't using/learning to use/programming for that Linux thing.

    Either way, the RIAA doesn't lose. It only loses if artists start seeing the RIAA as not the only way to distribute their stuff and earn a living (I gotta get signed man!)

    But what is being done in this area? Free P2P downloads are certainly not going to entice artists. MP3.com used to be the avenue that I thought could open the way until some major label bought it and killed it.

    Has this vacuum been filled?

    1. Re:The RIAA is listed as 1 of the losers.... by darkain · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Piracey is good? - its a great read, describing what happened to the SciFi channel because of torrent downloads.

  4. Thank you, Internet by itsmekirby · · Score: 4, Funny

    Thank you, Internet.

    Without you, I wouldn't know what happened this year. You are truly the cure for my long-term memory loss.

  5. Apple iPod qualifies as "sharing"? by redelm · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I'm sorry, but I don't see that Apple is into P2P unless someone has statistics showing that sharing is substantial compared to sales. They've just got an effective sales scheme I call C2P.

    That shouldn't take away from Apple's achievement. They've shown the popularity of back-catalog music, and how sales can be made in a digital age, something the RIAA cannot see (likely from greed).

  6. One more try... by commodoresloat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Winners: Musicians who now have the opportunity to tap into niche markets globally without paying a blood tax to soulless corporations who are destroying music
    Losers: Ego-driven and greedy but untalented millionaire executives at said corporations who will see slightly less profit this year from sucking the blood of people with actual talent by locking down their distribution channels, yet will nonetheless whine like babies that they're being ripped off by the very fans who made them millionaires in the first place
    Biggest Losers: Slashdotters who aren't getting a penny of this money but still feel driven to defend these bloodsucking corporate drones every chance they get.

  7. I see 2006 being much of the same as 2005 by Kierthos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The RIAA and MPAA will still continue to lack a clue as how to effectively deal with P2P (this assumes that there is a way to do so, which, you know, there might not be). The lawsuits filed against Sony might be resolved in 2006, but depending on how many states follow Texas' lead, it could be years...

    And if it's anything like 2005, someone will develop and release the newest and greatest P2P application which will be the 'best thing evar!!!1' until the RIAA and MPAA pollute it six months after release. Lawsuits against the creators of P2P apps will continue. And by mid-March, the RIAA will shoot itself in the foot again by filing a lawsuit against someone else's grandma, 12-year old child, or, just for a change of pace, a handicapped person. They will continue to garner more ill will then the MPAA, simply because of their continued stupidity.

    Happy New Year.

    Kierthos

    --
    Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
  8. This isn't about File-Sharing, it's about piracy by original_nickname · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is the "music piracy" winners and losers of 2005, not File-Sharing/P2P.

    File Sharing is the big loser until people realise it has more applications than copying music (which I have nothing against btw).

    Apple Computer haven't got much to do with File-Sharing and P2P - their one real link to it is that they recently crippled the File-Sharing in iTunes - surely this makes them a loser for P2P? They've virtually withdrawn from it due to people copying music illegally using their app! Their only victory is people can use their stylish, desirable players to play their warezed music, and that is nothing new. They are also a winner as all the zealot fans like me still buy all their shinies despite the DRM.

    Microsoft also aren't mentioned - I'm sure they were experimenting using P2P to send software updates? Don't know what happened to that, anyway

    Merry Christmas to you all, too

  9. RIAA by james.v.farr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't know why I am so passionate about the issue. Sharing music is no more stealing than going to a friends house to watch a movie. If I like the movie, I will buy it, if I like the music I will buy an album. I would really like to say, "Sharing music is not a crime, stealing a CD from a retail outfit is!" There is not much more that can be said about the issue, if anyone likes a song they heard, they will go out and support the artist if they wish to continue the deliverence of good quality music!

    1. Re:RIAA by mangu · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I would really like to say, "Sharing music is not a crime, stealing a CD from a retail outfit is!" There is not much more that can be said about the issue


      Your post is one of the best on this subject that I have seen on Slashdot. That's exactly it.


      The media industry has been giving away their music for free for nearly a century, through broadcasts. It has always been understood by the general public that one gets the music for free in the radio, and must pay only for the physical medium where music is recorded. Yes, I know, broadcasting is paid by advertising (or taxes), yadda, yadda, but the general idea is that no one pays to listen to the radio in the way that one pays to buy a CD.


      The media industry wants us to believe that the opposite of "copying" is "buying". The opposite of copying is not copying, the opposite of buying is not buying. If someone refrains from copying a music the artist still starves to death, if his CDs are priced too high for the market. That's the true problem that the ??AA keeps denying: pricing. How is it possible for anyone working at home to produce CD and DVD copies that compete on price with mass-produced items?


      I have some hobby machines for metal working at home. I could make nails, nuts, and bolts that are identical to the stuff you buy in a hardware store. But I could never make anything at a price that competes with the mass-produced hardware you get at the stores. That's why I don't see any complaints from the Precision Machined Products Association about people doing illegal copies of their products at home.


      I could program a hobbyist lathe and milling machine to make a copy of anything the PMPA members sell, but mass production depends on specialized machines that no one has at home. It's the same for CDs and DVDs. The ??AA members make their products in specialized machines, optimized for making and packing millions of copies of each item. No one working at home with his LG-4163 CD/DVD recorder and printing the labels on his HP-890 printer would be able to compete with anything the ??AA members sell, if the prices were right.

  10. saying by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "The RIAA continued its fight against P2P networking with little effect"

    is like saying

    "The Aztec Empire continued its fight against the Spanish Conquistadors with little effect"

    duh

    both were quickly extinguished by the arrival of new tech, and i would say the RIAA knows what its like to be Montezuma right now

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  11. Not quite by trifish · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The RIAA continued its fight against P2P networking with little effect

    Doesn't really seem so. They managed to make the owners of the biggest P2P network (eDonkey2000) say they "throw the towel in".

  12. Re:I consider myself lucky. by werewolf1031 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you're only using P2P to "steal" music, or for w4r3z, I say fuck off: you're tainting a legitimate utility. If you're dumb enough to want to listen to the shit they call music or movies nowadays, you're dumb enough to go out and pay for it. Get off the Internet and stop wasting our bandwidth, you parasitic roaches.

    Personal taste not withstanding (and judging from your comments, you seem quite intolerant of any personal preference that disagrees with your own), I guess it would surpise the hell out of you to learn that I've actually purchased DVDs of movies I'd previously downloaded, simply because I liked them... "Spiderman", "Underworld", etc. I also know quite a few others who've done the same, both personally (IRL, ie. siblings, personal friends) and online.

    So much for the notion that every download is money "stolen" from the *AA. While I do agree that those who only download copyrighted material are contributing to the problem, berating those people only ignores the underlying problem of an utterly broken copyright system.

    ...and not even a single new artist has interested me in some years.

    Sounds like you've decided to take the stale old "nothing new can possibly be good, only the old stuff is worth anything" approach that is so typical of those who are resistant to pretty much all change. I'm not much younger than you (just hit 34 in October). Almost 40? Big Frickin' Deal, that's not so old. Yeah, I too still love some older music and movies (classic rock, for ex.), but that doesn't automatically mean "new = crap". Yes, there is some new stuff that I would describe as crap, but there's also some great new music -- just bought Corrosion of Conformity's latest, and I dare say the forefathers of metal (Zep, Sabbath) would be proud. And movies: You're old enough to recall the classic Spiderman comics, and can probably attest to how faithful the movie was to the original story... unless, of course, comics are too "low-brow" for you. Seems to me you've let yourself become a stereotypical Grumpy Old Bastard long before your time.

    PS: Roaches are not parasites, they are scavengers.

  13. Read ThePirateBay.org Legal Page by spack · · Score: 5, Funny
    ThePirateBay.org has become the most popular BitTorrent indexing site
    I have discovered this website thanks to the article. I have been getting some splendid laughs and guffaws out of their legal page. I suggest reading it for fun. http://thepiratebay.org/legal.php
    --
    For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the sheltered will never know.
  14. Define:Piracy by WhatAmIDoingHere · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A pirate is one who robs or plunders at sea without a commission from a recognised sovereign nation. Pirates usually target other ships, but have also attacked targets on shore. These acts are known as piracy. Unlike the stereotypical pirate with cutlass and masted sailing ship, today most pirates get about in speedboats wearing balaclavas instead of bandanas, using AK-47s rather than cutlasses.

    I use bittorrent to infringe on copyright, yes. But I've never commited piracy.

    And really, you've got most of that bass ackwards. It's the little guys who can go to places like iTunes or Amazon and get their CDs and songs sold for actual money, instead of signing a $10m contract with the RIAA and spending the next 20 years trying to pay off the $10m loan. Yeah. That's how the RIAA contracts work. You didn't know that, you say? You made that whole post with your ass you say? Hmm... Go back to kuro5hin.

    --
    Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
  15. One doesn't follow from the other by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    "The average consumer who has to deal with excessive DRM because of the losers above"

    Actually no.

    The record company's business model had traditionally been a pay-per-listen model. Unlike today, people just 100 years ago had no disposable income. Most people's thoughts were of having enough provisions to survive; the idea of a middle class with income to spend on luxuries is a 20th century ideal. Even then, the real middle class was largely a result of the consumerism buoyed by the end of WW2.

    So prior to the 50's people couldn't afford record players or player pianos or other ways of listening to music. Live music, radio, and juke boxes were how the record companies grew up and the model there is you pay to listen. Every time (and yes, listening to a commercial is paying to listen).

    Even as record players grew in popularity and dropped in price, people didn't have large music collections. They started to hear music on radio's and then would put a nickel in the jukebox to listen to it again.

    The 50's and 60's brought an explosion of relatively cheap music, which from the RIAA's standpoint was a good thing. Those LP's couldn't be copied (except for a handful of geeks...er.... HiFi buffs who had a reel-to-reel recorder but with prices at several hundrew dollars, was hardly worth the effort.

    But as the compact cassette (and 8-track) grew in popularity the apple-cart was upset. People could borrow albums from each other and they could make copies! Forbidden fruit. The idea that an LP was special and uncopyable was gone. The physical DRM scheme in place at the time was rendered useless for people who could afford a cassette deck. And they could. And they copied a lot. Sometimes, they'd do it so much the record companies would raid "trading parties" on college campuses. Still,it was not a big deal and anybody with a cassette deck would do "Greatest Hits" tapes or make copies of friends albums. For the first time, copying had a measurable impact on sales. Still, the record companies figured out they could sell pre-recorded cassette and so all-in-all things weren't bad.

    Then the Audio CD came out and it was back to the old deal for the record companies. DRM. You couldn't copy a CD! Unless you were one of those geeks with a lot of time, a lot of brains and a few thousand bucks to buy recordable CD's, but that wouldn't come for almost a decade.

    But when MP3's came out nobody would have heard of them except for one sly move by fraunhaufer... they started to give away command line versions of their MP3 player, and they turned the other was as people reverse engineered MP3. The cat was and is out of the bag, and this time, a change in format won't help primarily because once its on your hard drive, format is now irrelevant. The old days of a new format every 10-15 years is obsolete. So once you own music, you never buy it again.

    Understand two things that are important. You must understand this or nothing good will every come of this:

    1) The record companies still believe they are entitled to "nickel" every time you listen. Its in their blood.

    2) The record companies have relied on format changes to encourage sales of a back catalog.

    So from their point of view, they want DRM not only to limit what you can do with music, but they also want it so you have to buy the same music again in a few years as they obsolete the current format. Remember this: The DRM would exist on the music even if nobody was stealing it. It allows control and control is the important thini

    I say this... let people copy as much as possible. Let congress pass the most draconian laws protecting music and film possible, because then people will finally get tired being screwed by the record companies and real change will happen.

    But whining about people copying RIAA music for free? Its like worrying that its not fair that you steal from the corner drug dealer.