Slashdot Mirror
Apple Laptop Reliability Survey
Nikopol writes "The venerable Macintouch site recently released the results and analysis of a survey on Apple laptop reliability." From the article: "Our survey spanned every laptop capable of running Mac OS X, encompassing 41 models sold over seven and a half years. A challenge in ascertaining the reliability of any device is that more time gives them more opportunity to break, so new devices should always look more reliable at first glance. Our survey asked participants when their laptop first needed a repair -- 'first year', 'second or third year', and 'fourth year or later.' These correspond to the duration of Apple's standard one-year warranty, the AppleCare extended warranty program, and any repairs that might happen outside any warranty coverage period. We also asked participants if they purchased AppleCare for their laptop."
Coral cache link. I tried to get it right away. I don't think I was fast enough.
I found these sites to be useful in determining where to get the latest deals on used macs:
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
Getting the power connector resoldered was a nightmare though. Apple was only willing to replace the entire daughterboard it sat on, and for about $300. An afternoon of telephone calls turned up the good folks at MacForce, a nice little shop under a bridge in portland. They took a day to resolder the connection for me for $40, a far sight less than what apple wanted. When I replaced the Wallstreet with a G3 iBook, I went straight to them without a second thought.
Those candy colored iMacs shipped with OS9, which was garbage. Unusable garbage. Windows 98 was better. Seriously.
OS X, however, is a completely different beast from the ground up and shares absolutely no code in common with OS 9. It's also light years better than Windows XP or Microsoft's powerpoint slides for Vista.
I think a lot of people who bought candy iMacs back in the last '90s are still soured on Apple to this day because OS9 left such a bad taste in their mouths. It's a shame, because things really are different now.
I bought a PowerBook 12" G4 in mid 2004. No AppleCare.
Hard drive died on me this past October, about 4 months out of warranty.
Instead of paying Apple's $375 repair, I spent $80 on a 60gb Seagate HD and disassambled and replaced it myself, and everything works fine.
After my experiences regarding the PB, my iPod, and my ex gf's iBook, I would never pay for AppleCare - the free service isn't even worth the price so I sure as hell wouldn't pay for it
...and that's all there is to it.
I have a 14" iBook. I have only 2 complains:
1) My HD dies after almost a year (gotta love standard warrenties:-D) This seems to be a problem most laptops of any vendor, so...
2) My screen sometimes goes green sometimes (like an overcast). This too seems to be a problem w/ ibooks (search the apple forum...)
Other than that, I love this laptop and it has stud up to a lot. (physical and just computational)
"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm." - S. G. Colette
Introduction
We thank MacInTouch readers who participated in our recent laptop survey. More than 10,000 laptops were logged, along with many thousands of comments.
Survey Design
Our survey spanned every laptop capable of running Mac OS X, encompassing 41 models sold over seven and a half years. A challenge in ascertaining the reliability of any device is that more time gives them more opportunity to break, so new devices should always look more reliable at first glance. Our survey asked participants when their laptop first needed a repair -- "first year", "second or third year", and "fourth year or later." These correspond to the duration of Apple's standard one-year warranty, the AppleCare extended warranty program, and any repairs that might happen outside any warranty coverage period.
We also asked participants if they purchased AppleCare for their laptop. MacInTouch readers have strong opinions about whether or not AppleCare is a good investment; we hoped to quantify how often it is invoked for service. Hoping to gauge which models might have had repeat problems, we also asked how many times a laptop was repaired (regardless of warranty status) -- as well as providing an option for "It broke, but I didn't have it fixed." (Thus, repair numbers do not always exactly match problem reports.)
We also asked what components were repaired or replaced (if known), with check boxes for most major laptop components, as well as an "other" choice.
Finally, since accidents happen, we asked if the laptop was ever dropped.
Summary
* Overall average: 41% repaired (lifetime)
* Overall standard deviation: 0.17 (large variation between models)
Fewest Repairs:
* original (colored) iBooks
* PowerBook G3
* 12" PowerBook G4 (2005)
* 12" iBook G4 (recent models)
Most Repairs:
* iBook G3 (esp. in 2003, motherboard defects)
* 15" titanium PowerBook G4 (esp. in 2003, optical drive, case/latch/hinge)
* 15" aluminum PowerBook G4 (first version, screen defects)
Component Failures
* Overall component failure average: 5%
Standard deviation: 0.035 (large variation between component types)
* Most common failures (>1 STDEV above average): motherboard, display, hard drive
* Least common failures (>1 STDEV below average): RAM
* Less common failures (0.5-1 STDEV below average): keyboard, trackpad, case, latch
Charts
Repairs by Model and Time
Green cells indicate repairs significantly below average (ie, more reliable)
Red cells indicate repairs significantly above average (ie, less reliable)
iBook and PowerBook repairs by model
* Numbers may not add up to 100% due to rounding or variations in owner reporting.
Some laptops failed but were not repaired, so total failures (43%) are slightly higher than total reported repairs (40.6%).
Component Repairs
Green cells indicate repairs significantly below average (ie, more reliable)
Red cells indicate repairs significantly above average (ie, less reliable)
Table of Components Repairs
(click to enlarge)
* Numbers may not add up to 100% due to rounding or variations in owner reporting.
Analysis
In our analysis, we focus largely on first-year and second- and third-year repairs. Although we tracked fourth-year and later repairs, mostly it just tells us older models tend to break down.
The Titanium PowerBook G4s, which were quite popular, were more broadly troublesome than most models, with optical drive problems and case/latch/hinge problems being the most common issues.
But by affected
I'm posting this because the other guy who posted with this same info was an asshole about it, and will get modded down (rightfully so).
It's a known issue, and Apple will cover it. Here you go:
http://www.apple.com/support/ibook/faq/
Mikey-San
Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
It took less than fifteen minutes for the tech on the other end to give me an incident number and tell me that a shipping box would be dropped off that afternoon. Sent it off, expecting that I might see it by mid-January, and got it back, repaired, before New Year's.
It has been working perfectly since then. I live in Florida, and AppleCare isn't available in this state, so I can't comment on that.
I also have a 600 Mhz iBook that I bought in April of 2002. Running fine, with no repairs so far, but the battery is due for replacement.
Haven't had to reboot due to lockups, but I'm not running much Microsoft software.
I'm on my third in about 7 years. I started with a Duo 270c which was a little colour screened thing. Due to some screw up with the ordering system I received 2 (my cousin used to work for Claris/Apple and they were getting rid of old office machines). Worked like a dream.
Next I had a 14 inch Pismo (400 mhz). Lasted 3 years and I had to sell it as it was just too slow to run the newer flavours of OSX. It was heavy, but tough as old boots. The screen had a known fault and was replaced (during 1st year warranty) for free. I had to replace the battery which crapped out after about 2 years and I bought a new power adaptor (the one that looked like a yo-yo) as it started shorting. Apple has a habit of making real sexy looking power adaptors which are really unsuitable for light everyday abuse.
I'm now on a 12 inch AlBook (1 ghz). It's lovely. Had it for 2 years already, but the battery needs replacing. Gets a little hot sometimes, but apart from that it's super. It's not so fast for doing mpeg-4 encoding (it's the CPU), but I don't do that much and if I did, I should probably get a desktop. As a coffee-table/ digital living room device it's great and does everything I want.
I've never had Applecare. Never really saw the point.
Regarding battery life, I've had some IBM and HP machines from work and the battery life has been about the same (not impressive).
29 mpg. YMMV.
first of all, i agree with the other poster who replied to you regarding the unpleasantness of os 9 compared to os x.
i couldn't stand my spousal unit's imac (with os 9) and so was never turned on to the idea of having a mac. one day he brought me home a used powerbook (pismo) he got off of a student for cheap ($250). i loaded that thing right up with os x and really took some time to get used to the idea and now there's no going back for me.
the powerbook he got me was a prototype, pre-production model (but as far as i can tell the same as what went into production) from 1999. it still runs great with all the original stuff except for the battery, which we replaced because it no longer held a charge. we've got it running 10.4.3 and i have to say i'm still pleasantly surprised at how well that thing works.
based on my experience with that pismo, i just got a new 15-inch powerbook (the high res one). it's certainly faster and better-looking, but i'm not sure it's going to be as solid as the pismo. nothing's gone wrong with it, though, so my feelings are baseless at this point. of course, i've only had the new one for about 1.5 months. also based on my positive experience with the pismo i got a mini and it's doing fine.
also got a 20-inch cinema display (yeah, it's the same panel as the dell 2005fpw, but just in a prettier housing). after a couple of months it developed a bright patch in the lower left. i didn't have apple care and by the time i got around to complaining to apple it was off the 90 service thing, but i called them and they had me ship it to them whereupon they replaced the panel - all for free. turn-around time from making the call to getting the box, shipping off the monitor and getting it back was less than 1 week. got the monitor back and found the new panel had about 10 defective subpixels and one defective pixel. called apple again. they sent me another box and we went through the same routine (they replaced the panel again and again it all took less than a week). the monitor is perfect, now.
it was upsetting to have something that expensive fail and so soon and it was also upsetting to have it come back to me the first time in less than perfect condition, but i have to say i have no complaints with how i was treated and i'm now very satisfied. so, with my apple stuff nothing's gone wrong (yet) with the computers and something went wrong with the monitor. when something went wrong, it was for me a very painless experience getting it fixed.
Apple's products have always had the lowest or second lowest failure rate. Apple has always had the highest customer support satisfaction.
Taken from Consumer Reports, THE reviewing company you can trust.
Someone on the Apple discussion boards pointed me to DT&T Computer Services. They charge $225 to replace the logic board (with a refurb). I haven't used them, but they're quite helpful on the phone. They also don't charge for the diagnosis. You pay shipping (there and back), diagnosis is free, and then you decide whether to pay for repairs. Also, other common problems (e.g. broken video cables) are cheaper still.
Download? No.
You can get external SCSI ZIP drives with disks for under $10 on ebay, but the PB140 has that funky Apple high-density SCSI connector (so sayeth the AppleSpec page. Conversion cables used to run about $40, but that was perhaps 10 years ago, so they're probably dollar-bin items these days. The spec page also says you should have a floppy drive (regular 1.44MB one, even), which isn't much help these days, but if you've still got a PB140 kicking around, finding a newer mac with a floppy shouldn't be too hard...
High-speed Road Trip (18.000KPH)
The warranty extension has not completely ended.
The Repair Extension covers a machine up to a specific date, which has passed, OR up to three years after the date of purchase, whichever gives MORE coverage. Many machines are, therefore, still covered, particularly the later-purchased 800 MHz machines and the 900 MHz speed-bumped machines.
Plus, the repair is warranted for 90 days.
If you're getting intermittent display faults and want to force a failure, run "glxgears" for a while.
I too have a TiPowerBook and have had only one problem with it, and that is the battery life. I still have all the original parts and it still looks and works perfectly (3 years later), except the battery dies in anywhere from 5min to 40 min of use and seems to be pretty darn random. Oh I did have to replace my power cord. This is my only computer and use it for both home (including many wasted hours playing diablo II of all things) and some work (I'm a developer so when I can I use my PowerBook but sometimes that just isn't possible). So far it has been the most solid peice of machinery I have ever owned (though I do own a first gen ps2 that only failed me once and that was fixed for free).
My wife also has an iBook that has put in a good two year, after the first monitor was replace becuase of the whole white spot issue.
I might just be lucky with technology, but for my money Apple makes a solid product.
I ran into the famed bad logic board problem that the G3 iBooks had. I bought my 800 mhz iBook off eBay a year or so ago. Just a couple of months ago...had it on, and zap...video froze...rebooted, and no screen would come up at all. I have it dual booted with linux..tried to boot to it...but, no screen...it was blank.
I found out about the logic board problem on a Google search and looked around the apple.com site and found an article there.
It said that they had extended free fixes on this problem, so I called. Turns out my iBook was only about 2 weeks away from not being eligible...and it was out of warranty, no applecare either.
They were very nice to me...shipped me a free DHL box to ship it back in, postage paid. I sent it in, they fixed the logic board and shipped it back to me in like 2 days.
It is worked great since then, although, it appears the outside of the case got pretty scratched up in the repair...but, wasn't that big of a deal with me.
Anyway...this is my first mac, and I must say, I was very impressed that they fixed a used box for me AND paid for the shipping, packing...etc.
I'd definitely buy another one someday...sooner if they'd release the specs on the Airport Extreme cards, so I could dual boot it into Gentoo Linux.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Have you actually talked to Apple phone support about your iBook, or gone to an Apple store? There's a semi-secret about repair options for out-of-warranty portables. The short version is that, except in cases of accidental damage like a liquid spill or drop, regardless of what the problem is it doesn't cost more than about $350 to get your portable repaired.
Here's how it works: there are two ways to repair an Apple portable. It can be done on-site at an authorized service provider, or it can be shipped to a repair depot. For on-site repairs, you get charged parts + labor. This is irrelevant if you're in warranty or AppleCare. If you're out of warranty, things get extremely expensive. Like all computer manufacturers Apple charges high prices for parts, and service providers add a big mark-up.
On the other hand, for mail-in repairs Apple charges a flat fee (again, assuming accidental damage is not the cause). That's right -- a flat fee, no matter which parts need replacing. This ranges from about $275 to $350, depending on which computer model you have. So there is absolutely no way you lost $1600. For =$350 you can get the laptop repaired (iBooks are at the cheap end of the range), and you can buy a better iPod for $300.
The reason you might not have heard about this before is when you take an out-of-warranty portable to an authorized service provider, they have an enormous incentive not to tell you about it. The service provider gets a tiny reimbursement from Apple for facilitating a mail-in repair on your behalf. It's not worth their time, because they have to provide a basic diagnosis and do basic troubleshooting before sending it in (otherwise they lose the reimbursement). If they do the repair in-house they actually can make some money.
So call Apple! Since you don't have AppleCare, they will probably charge you $50 to open a support case. However, I believe that if the support case ends with a paid repair the $50 is refunded.
Copy the link into the browser's URL field. Looks like the website is bouncing slashdotters back to slashdot. If you copy the link, it behaves normally.
Instead of getting modded as flamebait I'll just link to PCWorld's 2006 Notebook Reliability and Service Survey where Apple actually remains at the top of the charts.
Hey if I just spent $5,000 on a new computer I'd have a hard time admitting it's a lemon too. ;)
Humm.. is it possible the game was called katayori? Something to do with coloured shells, matching the edges up?
Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
-Wallstreet 250 Mhz- Display failed after 3 years, 6 months, However, powerbook still runs with an external display
-Pismo Powerbook (2000)- Hard drive problems with noise, DVD drive failed after 14 months ($100 fix), Soundcard Failed after 3 years ($300+ fix), ATA Interface failed after 5 years 6months
-Titanium Powerbook-500 Mhz (2001)- DVD failed after 18 months, Modem failed under warranty, Display has vertical lines after 3 years, Paint rubs off after 1 year and chassis crack after 2 years
- iBook (700 Mhz)- no problems at time, 3 Years old
- Aluminum Powerbook 1.5 Ghz- No problems at this time, 1 year 3months
- Aluminum Powerbook 1.67 Ghz- No Problems at this time except for a malfunctioning pixel, 8 months
Reliability has been improving over the years; however, experience dictates an extended warranty is a must when purchasing a new Apple laptop. Despite the issues that I have experience, I will still recommend Apple notebooks as they best support available through phone, retail outlets, and forums that will resolve any issues quickly and painlessly. Also, I haven't had a problem with an IBM thinkpad we have for 2.5 years or a Gateway that my sister has had for 4 years
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
On the other hand, I bought one of those terrible G3 800 mhz iBooks with the faulty motherboards. After having the motherboard repaired twice, I talked the "Genius" at the Apple Store into declaring it a lemon. Bam, free G4 iBook with all the trimmings came to my door the next week, and because I bought the AppleCare warranty.
(Of course, part of it was the *great* service at the Apple Store and the fact that the manager there had the power to give me a free replacement without running it through corporate jerkwads. The actual AppleCare warranty stated that it was only declared a lemon after it fails 4 times. I got a replacement after 2.)
FYI, if you had AppleCare, the HD replacement would have been free. (Because your computer would still have been under warranty.) That's kind of the *point* of the AppleCare program... so judging the extended warranty based on their refusal to service an out-of-warranty machine is a little kooky.
All I know is that after talking with the super-nice guys at the Apple Store, and getting a free laptop, I've happy with my purchase even if it was a lemon at first.
Comment of the year
I have a Powerbook 15" Ti 1GHz that is still running after 2.5 years of excessive, yet accidental abuse. This laptop has fallen off a kitchen table onto a tile floor resulting in only two cracks to the titanium case. No damage to anything else. The laptop has also fallen from the top of a 42U rack onto the SC|04 show floor. The damage this time was two broken hinges and a broken backlight. It was still running the demo!
The machine was under AppleCare warranty but even so, the repair cost was astronomical. So although the laptop will survive, when it doesn't, your wallet may not.
Even if those numbers are high, one would expect them to both be high by roughly the same amount.
One might expect that, but not in a statistically sound way. For instance, it's possible that the machine with a higher reported failure rate had some widely-publicized (but not necessarily very prevalent) problem that caused people who had that specific problem to discuss it on message boards and find out about the survey. Or perhaps the problem was complicated, and required discussion on message boards to diagnose. Maybe the machine with a lower reported failure rate was simply more aesthetically pleasing, and caused users to mentally discount the severity of problems or forget them altogether. For instance, the owner of a beautiful 1954 Jaguar is likely to praise the car even though it breaks down every other week, whereas the owner of a 2004 Civic is likely to be furious if the CD player skips.
The point is that there are numerous entry points for sampling error, and it's not possible to correct for them or even know what they all are. That's why scientific experiments include a control group, and why surveys must be a random sampling to be meaningful. There is very little that can be determined from a self-selected study like this one.
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
I've got an ibook G4 with applecare. I started to get white spots. Apparently mine are caused from extreme pressure and are therefore not covered in applecare. So it's either deal with the ugly spots or pay $700 for a new screen. Applecare is a total waste if it doesn't actually pay for things when they break. Why even bother with applecare? This experience combined with the non linux friendly airport extreme has given me reason to never buy a mac again.
check out the best blog ever:
http://oehlberg.com
You're luckier than I am. I bought a 900MHz G3 iBook in June 2003 with the same problem. It has failed six or seven times now, with the exact same problem, and I have been told that I am not entitled to a replacement, only to free repairs every time. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I have been living in Japan since the month after I bought the machine. I told Apple Japan about Apple Australia's three-strikes policy on this matter, and they said that each country's Apple is a separate entity. So I just keep regular backups and occasionally have to send it off to them when the logic board fails yet again. Oh well. Rather this than a Windows machine.