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Australian IT Workers Concerned About Migrants
sien writes "In Australia it is being asserted that Australia's intake of migrants skilled in IT is taking jobs and lowering wages for Australian citizens. It appears that in all developed countries, not just the US, the case that immigrants are lowering wages for IT workers is being made. Would programmers in the developed world be better off without immigration that favors IT or is there an overall benefit for the industry with skilled workers going to the developed world and thus making the industry larger?"
of course you do!
just admit it, you love the taste of freshly-pumped ball sap!
Australia is more racist than Japan. Generally speaking. No offense to non-racist Australians, I recognize there are a heck of a lot of you. But I'm just saying... wow. Lots and lots who are on the opposite side of that table.
Just look at the history of Australia's immigration policy and notice how it swing back the close-minded direction again in the mid 90's.
Immigration is a POSITIVE economic force.
statistics available at http://www.immi.gov.au/statistics/
"Natives concerned foreigners may take resources."
.. but what's the difference? Aborigines aren't getting their inheritance land back any time either.
Here's an aboriginal perspective.
Well why wouldn't "Australians" be concerned? One wouldn't want to be visited the same fate their ancestors visited upon the dark race.
Consider it similar to the Israelis claiming their land back after being driven from it. Except now it's by those who had no prior claim
When you are living on the fruits of stolen inheritance, don't get pissed off if someone else theives it from you.
Nobody has the "right to a job". Better get welfare or some other subsidy than do a job that someone else can do better for less.
If you aren't able to make an original and meaningful contribution, you should consider working for McDonald's wages. Working at McDonald's is harder than sitting in front of a computer browsing slashdot.
how many illegal aliens are there in the US?
a brazillion.
I do not accept czechs.
australians are some of the most racist people in the world!
Because my taxes directly or indirectly subsidized the guy in India's education in the first place. If the guy in India didn't get his degree in the USA, there's a damn good chance the PhD's teaching in his Indian university did. And when "immigrants" are really interlopers, like H1-B's here in the USA, they are really just low wage stooges whose employers are screwing all the taxpayers who subsidize the infrastructure and economy these workers utilize and enjoy (energy, transit, medicine, rule of law, etc.) while they are staying here, artificially lowering our wages, on the soil our fathers and grandfathers gave their lives to protect.
Anybody who wants to heap crap on this argument and wave the "globalization is good" or "global competition is inevitable" deserves to lose a family member in a war protecting their country. Then let them make these asinine arguments, if they still think so little of the sacrifices people have made to give them the freedom to do so.
Two guys that I work with are from Sri Lanka. Whilst they are perfectly capable of doing the work that we do, they are willing to accept a much lower rate than I am, 50% less in one case. Whilst they have the technical skills what they lack is the experience in the Australian work environment, contacts in the industry and in one case the ability to adequately express themselves in english.
I am in no way 50% better at what I do than they are, but I also have some expectations that the last 10 years i've put in to gain experience and take senior roles in my field (data comms and security) is worth more than these guys are asking. From my project managers point of view they're cheap so they're good for his bottom line budget.
The immigrant IT workers might be better qualified due to a stronger education and technical background.
Hardly. The most foreign IT workers I've met have been young, fairly new out of college, and in entry level positions. They do not have any greater qualifications than local workers. Arguably, they have less qualifications due to their thick accent and lack of knowledge regarding the local culture and common business practises.
Workers could have similar skill levels, but the number of foreign applicants might far outnumber citizen applications.
Did you read the article? Australia has a high unemployment rate now in IT, similar to the situation in the US. Companies are literally getting hundreds of applications, all from qualified people.
Foreign nationals of particular national, ethnic, or racial background might be perceived (and I know this is against the law in at least the U.S. but it still can happen in the form of unofficial bias) as more skilled.
I don't know about Australia, but that is hardly the perception in the US. Generally, people there consider Indian, Chinese, or Russian programmers to produce crappy, poorly documented code. This code inevitably gets re-written by more knowledgeable American software engineers.
And in the US, it is perfectly legal to discriminate based on nationality, but not race. People from certain countries where race is defined by nationality don't understand that and think they are the same thing. They're not.
Sure, wage might be an issue. Not in IT from what I can see, though. Often it is more expensive to hire the non-citizen.
What planet are you on? Sure, there may be more up-front work and cost to get the immigrant here in the first place. However, once they're here employers can pay them a low wage, give them sub-standard raises, and keep them locked at their company.
Companies always want to hire the cheapest workers around. That's why you don't see PhD's flipping burgers at McDonald's. And that's why you do see immigrants working IT.
I'd agree with you if the developing countries actually bootstrapped themselves to their current position.
However, the west has been sending money, sending food, sending clothes, doing training, and performing other aid for decades to help propel 3rd world countries to the modern age. The taxes my family paid for those decades went to that development in those countries. Our money also paid for the development of large companies in our country. Now, all the money we've created and paid is being used to sell our jobs to the lowest bidder in the developing countries. What kind of thanks is that? So what should we do? Quietly disappear?
Given my choice, I'd rather see the money stay right where it was created. Let the 3rd world make their own. That's what we did. They obviously don't care about the help we've given them for decades to bring them where they are today. They just want to take everything that we've created and call it their own.