Working from Home on a Tropical Island Paradise?

CarrotLord asks: "I've recently returned from a holiday in Bali, and I liked it far more than I like London, where I live and work. With the growth of telecommuting and outsourcing, surely it should be possible for a technology worker to relocate to a cheaper, more pleasurable location such as Bali, and work from there, living an enjoyable life, working less, earning less, but still being able to afford a good standard of life. Personally, I would take an 80% pay cut quite happily to live there, and I'd still be financially secure. Surely, someone could set up a company, employing skilled workers in locations of their choice, to do remote outsourcing work at a relatively low price? Does anyone do this? Has anyone thought about doing this?"

Comments

I highly recommend it

[MarkusQ]

I highly recommend it. A few thoughts:

• If you presently work in IT, especially in a small shop, talk to your employer. You may be surprised at how receptive they are to the idea.
  • Don't mention (or at least, don't get specific) about the pay cut right up front
  • Point out that you'd be glad to have visitors
  • Look for (and point out) other advantages, such as you providing swing-shift support or...?
• Broadband is available in surprising places. It's also unavailable in surprising places. Do your homework.
• VOIP
• Research the climate for a whole year. Quantify things like "the rainy season" and make sure you know what you are getting into. Some places are really nice for six months out of the year, and...interesting...for the rest
• Make sure you like the local food.
• If there is a local language other than English, try to learn as much of it as you can.
• It takes more discipline to work this way. Lots more.
• Explore the tax consequences, work permits, etc. Many places can be sold on the notion that you are a "tourist" who happens to be being paid by your company back home--the idea being that you really are commuting, and aren't "working" in the country--just spending your money there.

--MarkusQ

P.S. My present job (which I'm taking a break from for a few minutes to cruse /.) is in the US. My house is on the side of a (dormant) volcano near the equator.

Yeah, I'd say you're on to a good idea.

One other thing I forgot

[MarkusQ]

I forgot in my list:

You'll need to get serious about UPS/battery backup (or just do everything on laptops) and making backups, etc. You probably think electricity 24/7/52 is normal. My power is up a good 99% of the time--meaning I average about 24*60/100 = 15 minutes of no-electricity a day, with outages lasting from 5 seconds to 5 hours. Not unsupportable, once you accept and plan to deal with it, but a pain in the butt if you don't.

--MarkusQ

Third-world business, first world income?

[daviddennis]

I'm putting together a web service type business, and I figure I can outsource myself to the Philippines and save a lot of money thanks to the low cost of living. It might make totally new business models possible, such actually, seriously, being able to make a living of blogging, even if you're not in the top 1% of it, through a combination of the generosity of Google ads and the incredibly low cost of living. Most bloggers who try this are in the high-cost SF Bay Area and bleed money like crazy, but you're just one person and don't have to do that.

It also brings new social opportunities. Third-world chicks dig American guys. You're a millionaire in their eyes, even if you make $1,000 a month. You are also exotic and curious and odd, and that uniqueness is attractive in ways money doesn't completely explain. True, they love you for your money, as well as being you, but that's really no different from how American girls work. The only difference is that you're at the top of the food chain instead of the middle.

The biggest problem, of course, is that your options in getting customers don't include the schmoozing that is so necessary in cases like this. In my case, I have a business partner who's staying in the US and dealing with those things. At the very least, you would need a US bank account to accept money and someone in the US to deposit checks. Most affiliate programs and Google Adwords require US addresses and banks.

In the Philippines, you come in on a tourist visa and can renew it for up to 12 months. At that point you have to leave the country for 24 hours. Most people doing this take one day vacations in nearby Hong Kong, Singapore or Taiwan.

Make sure you have very carefully researched the cost of living in your chosen area. You can usually bring in your laptop computer, but parts and service for it may be scarce. Computers and other electronics can cost double or triple what they do in the US thanks to stiff tariffs and corruption. On the other hand if you're stopped by a cop, you pay PHP500 ($10) and you can go on your merry way without the slightest stain on your driving record.

Bear in mind that costs are lower, but not evenly so. Used cars in the Philippines cost maybe 40% more than they do in the US, because there are a lot of import duties. You can get cheap native made cars but you probably won't like them. Gas in the Philippines cost slightly less than the US, thanks to lower taxes, but it's still expensive. On the other hand, a high-rise apartment in Manila's most expensive elite area goes for about PHP60,000 ($1,000) a month. You can get housing in major cities for PHP7000 (about $125). True, it lacks a bath tub or hot water, but the water's lukewarm anyway.

DSL Internet, in areas that support it, is about $50 a month. Everyone uses cellphones and they're all on prepaid plans which are very cheap. Despite this, most people in the Philippines use text messaging because it's even cheaper.

So why did I choose the Philippines? Amazingly low cost of living, for one thing. Most people speak a bastardized version of English, so the language isn't a big problem. And of course it's a tropical island which means I can enjoy going swimming and boating.

So if you've always wanted to be your own boss, and have a good business plan you can execute, going to a third world country might just be the way to do it.

But beware: You won't be able to make money there yourself. Skilled workers go begging at P200 ($4) a day. And even technical workers don't fare much better, from what I've been told. The key in going to a third-world country is to keep some reasonable fraction of your first-world income.

I'm in the final phases of my research and will be visiting the Philippines in February. (All of this information is from my pre-trip research.) I plan to blog during my trip showing my reactions to real life there. Watch amazing.com (which will be changing radically soon) for details.

D

more info on Bali

[TheSHAD0W]

http://www.escapeartist.com/efam/69/Living_In_Bali .html

While Bali is fairly idyllic, apparently there are problems with foreigners being cheated in land sales and with becoming a resident.

General note: If you wish to work and/or live elsewhere, The EscapeArtist is a good resource to plan with.

Telecommuting from Phuket, Thailand

[aaarrrgggh]

I am currently telecommuting from Thailand. MarcusQ brings up a good point, don't talk salary! I am currently at 100% of my US salary, although a different arrangement will eventually be required.

Some pitfalls for you to understand:

• Internet access can be spotty in availability and reliability. You always need a backup plan. It can sometimes take months to get ADSL, and without a proper residence and sometimes a work permit it can be hard to get at all.
• Much of my job is on the phone. My US phone had a bill for the first month roughly approaching half my take-home pay. Fortunately, it was paid by the company. I had good intentions of using Skype, but 24-hour internet cafes aren't available anywhere near me.
• Can you do your job via dial-up? Often that is the best speed you will find! Make sure you have contingencies; I end up using GPRS for transferring large files. It hurts!
• You will be working odd hours. I start at 6am so I have a few PST hours, end at about 11am, take a break, and start working from about 8pm to midnight for time with EST hours. I feel sorry for my wife and neighbors when I am on a 3am conference call and having a heated discussion. The time difference can turn something you thought could be done overnight in the US into a 3-day activity if you end up needing help from someone else.
• There is no such thing working for a US company as part-time. If you are worth enough to them to let you telecommute, you will be putting in roughly the same hours, but likely working harder. The logical extension to this is that to succeed in the long-run, you need to start a business and have local people (and gullible travelling experts)working for you and billing them out at 10x their salaries. I hate to admit it, but that is the only way.
• The exception to the above rule is that if you happen to have irreplaceable experise, and a fantastic relation with your boss, and much of your work involves being remote from co-workers and clients, you might be able to pull something mutually beneficial for 6 months.
• Relationships with co-workers will degrade over time, especially if you used to be in the same office. Think in advance about how that might impact you.
• Finding just the right place to live could take a lot of time. Factor this in when you make your business plan.You also might need to move around seasonally. Under stand your need for access to an airport!

One last tip, find an expat website for the area you think you want to go and hang out there for a while to understand the pitfalls and work-arounds before you encounter them yourself! For Thailand, I suggest ThaiVisa.

Re:Quite the opposite here

[CarrotLord]

It's pretty easy for Australians to go to the UK (indeed, I'm Australian, and came here for the reason mentioned above), particularly if your parents or grandparents are UK citizens, as is relatively common in Australia (eg my mother is English). It's got little to do with the "tightness" of the relationship, and everything to do with historical links. The US fought a war of independance with the UK, whereas Australia still has the Queen as head of state.

Consider the fact that I am an Australian citizen, and will be a UK citizen shortly, but I can't get a work permit in the USA without sponsorship from a US company. However, as a UK citizen, I can work anywhere in the EU.

Re:80% pay cut?

[acidblood]

Since I'm Brazilian I'm going to chime in. I live in a medium-sized town (500k inhabitants, give or take) in the north of Paraná state. Right now I'm using 600/300 kbps ADSL which costs about US$ 50/month all told (including the phone line). Grab a free-for-all VoIP plan like BroadVoice's and you get free calling to Brazil, the US and other countries for US$ 28/month. This is absolutely imperative if you plan on using the phone a lot, as Brazilian rates are outrageously expensive. Cell phones are pretty expensive as well -- you'll hardly find people with 100+ minutes monthly plans (that's roughly 3 minutes a day). Also, be prepared to pay ridiculous markups on your hardware: the US$ 500 Mac mini costs upwards of US$ 1000 here, and a VoIP ATA/router I was looking at which sells for US$ 90 in the US costs US$ 200+ here.

In my town the best connection you can get from ADSL is 1 Mbit/512 kbps, paying I believe something from US$ 80 to 90, all told. No cable connection either. I don't think the situation in the big towns is much better -- I've never heard of anything faster than 1 Mbit/512 kbps. If you really need more than that, you're either going to have to get multiple phone lines with multiple ADSLs, or get a pipe directly from the local tier 1 providers like Embratel (which is going to cost a fortune even by US standards, probably not worth it).

Something you have to pay attention to is the capped plans. The main ADSL provider in São Paulo has monthly caps in place of (I believe) 10 to 40 GB/month, depending on which plan you get. You'll have to look around for uncapped plans or stay away from São Paulo (which is, as far as I know, the only place where caps are implemented -- plus it's not a good town to live in anyway).

Out of curiosity, where were you staying in Brazil?