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Windows Wireless Networking Flaw Identified

An anonymous reader writes "Washingtonpost.com is reporting from the 2nd annual Shmoocon hacker conference about the release of a previously undocumented vulnerability in Windows. The flaw takes advantage of a feature on Windows laptops that have wireless cards built-in. Security researcher Mark Loveless found that Windows laptops which cannot find a wireless connection are configured to broadcast the name of the last SSID they associated with. They assign themselves an ad-hoc 'link local' (think 169.254.x.x.) address, and an attacker can configure his machine to broadcast an SSID of the same name. Thus, the attacker associates with that 'network' and communicates directly with the victim's machine. The funny part from the Post blog entry is that Microsoft helped author the RFC for link local."

55 of 225 comments (clear)

  1. That's cool by BishopSRQ · · Score: 3, Funny

    I think I will go test this out on my parents...

  2. Re:Class Action Lawsuite by Philomathie · · Score: 2, Funny

    If that was possible the richest man in the world would be a lawyer...

  3. Re:Class Action Lawsuite by nurb432 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ever read the EULA? You hold microsoft not responsible by agreeing. So the answer would be no, no class action suits.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  4. Damn!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    There goes my mobile botnet...

  5. Should be standard on all laptops and desktops by oilisgood · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Also, many laptops have a button you can push that disables the built-in wireless feature until you hit that button again. Turning off the wireless connection when you are not using it also prevents this from being a problem.

    Best advice in the article...

    1. Re:Should be standard on all laptops and desktops by tunah · · Score: 4, Funny

      I hope he's not referring to the power button.

      --
      Free Java games for your phone: Tontie, Sokoban
    2. Re:Should be standard on all laptops and desktops by bot24 · · Score: 4, Informative
      This isn't really good advice in my opinion; if your computer's security is ready for the 21st century it won't be a problem at all. The only reasons this may be a vulnerability you should care about are:
      • You are not running a firewall
      • Your firewall doesn't block access to unsecured services
      • Your firewall makes exceptions solely based on IP subnets
      The no firewall design is great if your computer is on a secured wired network that uses IPv4 networking. However, secured networks should be defined as having:
      • No unsecured wireless access points
      • No WEP secured wireless access points
      • No internet-accessable computers
      • No internet-exposed computers that may contract any form of malware
      • A system that ensures that computers may only be used by the intended user
      • No possibility of a disgruntled workers or pranksters
      This effectively means that you should treat your local area network as you treat your internet connection unless you are only working on your personal home network consisting only of computers behind a network address translator, and exposing no services to the internet. With the coming of IPv6 network address translation should become less popular, and this method of securing your computers will become even more dangerous.
      Run a properly configured firewall on all your computers. Do not use services that do not require authentication or base their authentication off of IP subnets.
    3. Re:Should be standard on all laptops and desktops by level_headed_midwest · · Score: 2, Informative

      Every computer can support halting of network traffic. Just right-click on the interface's monitor in the taskbar and hit "Disable" in Windows. In OS X, click on the wireless icon and select "Disable." In Linux, if you have Gnome's netapplet or network-selector installed, hit "Disconnect." If you have KIntenet, right click and select "Hang Up." If you have none of those, type "sudo /sbin/ifdown eth*" where * is the number of your wireless, usually 0 or 1. You don't need any third-party program.

      --
      Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
  6. Dont panic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful


    FTA
    First of all, if you are running any kind of network firewall -- including the firewall that comes built in to Windows XP -- you won't have to worry about some stranger connecting to your laptop. In fact, I had to shut down my firewall for both of us to successfully conduct our test.

    its one of those "if you have no firewall and ignore all the alerts and warnings and have filesharing enabled and have a wifi card set to auto DHCP and an attacker is targeting you specifically" flaws

    yawn, seems like much ado over nothing, you have more chance dropping and breaking your laptop than you have of being exploited by this "flaw" and if you goto Starbucks (and support their disgusting business model) you deserve everything you get

    1. Re:Dont panic by rbarreira · · Score: 2, Insightful

      and an attacker is targeting you specifically

      I don't think that's a requirement - couldn't a guy just listen for all SSID broadcasts and then connect to whatever PC he manages to fish?

      --

      The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
    2. Re:Dont panic by mysidia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's one of those, ...they can make your connection pass through a 'transparent' proxy logging everywhere you visit, capturing copy of e-mail in transit over paintext protocols, and possibly modify a file you download... flaws.

      Think you're downloading something from your OS vendior? (Silent file replacement by hacker attached to Wireless Access Point).... Oops!

  7. Encryption? by joepeg · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What if the laptop's last SSID required WEP or WPA (and has it configured in a profile)? Will it still connect if _less_ security is required?

    --

    ZEN is a prime number in base-36

    1. Re:Encryption? by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What if the laptop's last SSID required WEP or WPA (and has it configured in a profile)? Will it still connect if _less_ security is required?

      What difference does it matter?

      This would have to be a direct targeted attack on an individual or small group of individuals, but is still possible.

      Script kiddie situation:

      Sets up rogue WAP, and gives free internet connection to the laptop. All ssh and SSL or other encrypted channels goes through the free WAP.

      Advanced script kiddie situation:

      Sets up rogue WAP, and gives free internet connection to the laptop. The kid then has a number of popular local banks' website replicated _without_ SSL and resolves the DNS to a rogue bank site and snags username/password info. (Profit!!!) This could be as advanced as a transparent web proxy that does sed s/https/http/g;

      Super advanced and traceable and more expensive version:

      Do Advanced script kiddie situation, but buy real SSL certs and then snag username/passwords AND (Profit!!!)

      The last one is simply not worth the risk and complexity of buying bankofam1rica.com SSL certs, AND having to be physically close to targets without any trace. /me heads to coffee shop with WAP and PowerBook and looks for higher end Dell's and Viao's.

  8. Re:Class Action Lawsuite by julesh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ever read the EULA? You hold microsoft not responsible by agreeing.

    Disclaimers of warranty are not necessarily legally binding. A decision in court would involve questions of how fair it is for MS to disclaim liability for this.

  9. Security? by yobjob · · Score: 5, Funny

    Does anyone actually secure their wireless network? I actually have the problem that, on startup, my computer connects to my neighbour's wireless network instead of my own!

    1. Re:Security? by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Informative

      I secure mine, my neighbor doesn't secure their's, my whole freakin neighborhood is practically unaware of this "security" business.

      netstumbler + usb wifi (better reception) in any residential area will show you how little people know/care.

      As for your PC connecting to a network other than the one you want, you can tell windows which networks are "preferred" and they can be placed in order of preference.

      right-click on the network icon ---> status ---> properties ---> wireless networks ---> (the "use windows" box has to be checked) ---> preferred networks

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:Security? by Lxy · · Score: 4, Funny

      No they don't. True story:

      I bought a new wireless card for Christmas. I was working on getting the madwifi stuff working in Debian and I decided not to set up my AP until I had my wireless card working. Besides, I'm a n00b to wireless under linux so I wanted to take appropriate precauitons.

      I got the card working, and iwlist brought up two APs in my neighborhood. One name "simpsons" and one name "zr45ytg" or something similar with WEP enabled. Not being 1337, I left the WEP one alone (for now) and decided to hop onto simpsons. As you can probably guess, I was given a private IP and internet access. A quick nmap showed two Windows machines connected, using smbclient I found an open printer share.

      Digging farther, I tried to log into the AP itself. Linksys WRT54G with, you guessed it, defult passwords. Oh, let the fun begin! I changed his SSID to "0wn3d" and sent the relevant sections of the Linksys WRT54G manual to his printer. This guy now should know how to set up WEP and change his admin password. He should also notice that his SSID changed.

      One week later, still broadcasting an SSID of 0wn3d, no WEP, and default admin password. Either he didn't get the message or he's illiterate. Oh well, free internet for me!

      --

      There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
      :wq
    3. Re:Security? by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Funny

      Here's the complete text of War and Peace

      Try printing that out and see if he doesn't notice.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    4. Re:Security? by David+Horn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And suppose he doesn't want to have to worry about securing his wireless network if all he uses it for is checking the news on his laptop? Little scroats like you who think it's helpful to mess around with other people's equipment should be shot.

      If you're capable of doing that, why didn't you just print off something telling him his network was unsecure, include your phone number and offer to go over and sort it out for him? Let me guess, you're about 13 years old?

      I'm unfortunate enough to have one of those WRT54G access points, and due to a hardware flaw I can't run it with WEP *OR* WMA *OR* MAC filtering. I need to get a replacement, but right now I don't have the time to sort it out. So it's unsecured (but I did change the admin password.)

      What you need to do is try to help other people, rather than lord it over them. This is why anyone that works in IT is treated like shit, because end users assume we hate them and won't do anything to help.

      Get a life, and to hell with my karma.

      --
      PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
    5. Re:Security? by kevinl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      He shouldn't be connecting to his neighbor's open network at all. Would you stroll into your neighbor's house if you found a door left ajar?

      Printing your name and phone number is just as wrong as printing instructions for securing the network, and is way dumber. There are lots of people in the world who are going to consider this an intrusion, and report it to law enforcement. Do you really want a visit from the police as thanks for your "helpful" offer?

      If you find an open network, leave it alone. If you feel you must help, use the signal strength to determine which neighbor has the open access point, and make a personal visit. But don't be surprised if you get told to mind your own business.

    6. Re:Security? by user32.ExitWindowsEx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      WTF are you smoking? how the hell can you conclude that leaving a network open creates an implied "use me" policy?

      last time i checked, you have no right to be on a network (wired or wireless) unless you have been explicitly granted permission by a person in a position of authority over said network. just leaving the network open is not a grant of permission.

      --
      "Evil will always triumph because good is dumb." -- Dark Helmet
    7. Re:Security? by TerranFury · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > WTF are you smoking? how the hell can you conclude that leaving a network open creates an implied "use me" policy?

      If things like public municipal WiFi are to take off, we can't have that point of view.

      Let's say I'm the city of Philadelphia and I want to put free WiFi in the parks. If there's a legal precedent that says you're not allowed to use WAPs you stumble across, then this idea will never take off.

      Or what if we want WiFi to become a truly open broadcasting medium? What if I want to stream my own MP3s to whoever is nearby who might care? This vision of the future can't happen with implied non-permission.

      The problem is the "breaking-and-entry" metaphor we've been using. What we're talking about is radio communication. CB operators have never had an expectation of privacy, nor have HAMs. Unless there's an explicit lock -- it doesn't even need to be cryptographically secure; it just needs to send the message "you do not belong here" -- then I think we need to use the same assumptions we use for other radio communications.

    8. Re:Security? by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2, Informative
      A public park, with an unlocked gate - free and open for all to use
      A private house with an unlocked door - Not free and open for use, stay the hell out.

      An AP that is meant to be open is fine. Thats what the owners/administrators intended. A private AP in someones house is not necessarily open for all to use. It may be, if that is what the owner intends. But just because it is unsecured is not necessarily an invitation or permission to use it.

    9. Re:Security? by bhawbaker · · Score: 2, Informative

      the pita bread you are cooking, i can smell it all the way over at my home... by your logic, i guess i can just head over and eat your pita bread when you leave it at window sill for cooling ?

      i can smell you smoking out in my back yard.. i guess i'll come over and take away some of your cigs to smoke

      light strays from your living room is entering mine.. i guess i'll read my newspaper in your living room

      you are watering your grass and it is leaking into my yard.. i guess i'll use your hose to water my grass

      try again

      bob

    10. Re:Security? by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the pita bread you are cooking, i can smell it all the way over at my home... by your logic, i guess i can just head over and eat your pita bread when you leave it at window sill for cooling ?

      That involves you going to get something, trespassing on your neighbour's property at the same time. Wireless is sent to you, in your house. Not the same at all. It would be closer to you being allowed to sit at your window and smell your neighbour's cooking to your heart's content. The smell is being "broadcast" (wirelessly, I might add!) to your house. You can do what you want with it.

      i can smell you smoking out in my back yard.. i guess i'll come over and take away some of your cigs to smoke

      Yet again, involves you going onto your neighbour's property. You need permission for that. You don't need permission to use something your neighbour puts into your house.

      light strays from your living room is entering mine.. i guess i'll read my newspaper in your living room

      Trespassing again. How is this even remotely the same, again? If you wanted to read your newspaper on your own lawn by the light coming from your neighbour's living room window, there'd be nothing they could do about it.

      you are watering your grass and it is leaking into my yard.. i guess i'll use your hose to water my grass

      For a start, why bother? If your neighbour is already leaking water onto your lawn, you have a perfect right to use what he leaks to water your grass. It's already happening, and you don't need to do anything. Trespassing on your neighbour's property to bring his hose over to your lawn is different, as it involves you leaving your property. The water that he's leaking onto your lawn, though, is free for you to use. He can't exactly say "You can't use my water leakage to water your lawn! If you do, I'll report you to the cops!" Why should he be able to do that with his leaking wireless signal? This point of yours does more to disprove your point of view than prove it.

      try again

      Yes, maybe you should.

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    11. Re:Security? by vux984 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because they are not being broadcast into your private property. They are being broadcast within his own private property and spill over into yours.

      If your neighbor calls out to his kids in the yard that its dinner time, and you can hear him from your yard would you show up at his table ready to eat? After all, "it was a clear invitation for dinner broadcast into your private property" right? Your neighbor wasn't speaking in code, and his door was unlocked too.

      Perhaps your neighbour ought to install some sort of sound dampener -- say a 20ft tall concrete wall, at the border between your yards to ensure you don't get confused? Perhaps with a lead sheet inside to keep his radio waves from entering your property too?

      Communication not intended for you ought to be ignored by you. Common courtesy and all that.

    12. Re:Security? by isorox · · Score: 2, Funny

      This is why anyone that works in IT is treated like shit, because end users assume we hate them and won't do anything to help.

      Well, to be fair...

  10. Re:Hmmm by imaginaryelf · · Score: 2, Informative

    You have to try to connect, and FAIL, to be assigned a 169.254.x.y address.

  11. RTFA - Nothing to See . . . Move Along by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    O.K. Folks, if you program your Linux laptop to connect to an ad-hoc network and broadcast SSIDs, this behaviour is going to occur on Linux too.

    This isn't just an MS Windows flaw . . . it is a flaw in the way that the administrators (users) manage the machines.

    I wish you all would quit pointing fingers. This isn't some kind of new thing.

    1. Re:RTFA - Nothing to See . . . Move Along by Fnord666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The point is that you would have to program your Linux machine to behave like this whereas the Windows machine comes configured this way by default.

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
  12. What?! NO! by mike518 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Another Networking Flaw? Dam, i mean the first 74 were completely predictable, but i have to say this one caught me completely off guard. You win this round malicious hackers *shakes fist into air*.

    --
    Mike
    I heart the RIAA & MPAA, im sure its mutual...
  13. I'm sorry, this is old info by dangermen · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is old info and has been known for a while. Anyone having used Kismet or some other sniffer at a public place has see this.

  14. String quartet? by julesh · · Score: 3, Informative

    Loveless then created an ad hoc network with the same name, and told his computer to go ahead and connect to "hackme." Viola!

    Violin! Cello!

    Seriously, though, TFA doesn't seem to say quite the same thing as the summary. The demonstration the reporter saw involved him setting up an ad-hoc network, and then the security researcher was able to connect to it. Err... that's how it's supposed to work.

    The article then goes on to assume that this will happen when you connect to access points and then leave them, but you don't usually set up an ad hoc network for that process. Has he just got something wrong? Missed a step out or something? Is there a URL for a technical level article on this flaw?

    Should you at a later date happen to open up your laptop in the vicinity of another Windows user who also had recently gotten online at Starbucks, those two machines may connect to each other without any obvious notification to either user

    You mean other than the big speech bubble thing popping up and saying "Wireless Network Connection now connected to T-MOBILE"?

  15. Useless functionality.. by Ckwop · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a common security problem: useless or rarely used functionality. As I've said before, functionality sells whereas security doesn't. Spend a million dollars on functionality and you (hopefully) get a product that can sell for more money. Spend a million dollars on security and you have almost nothing tangiable to show for it.

    Before this article, I didn't even know that "link local" thing existed. I guessing that this is probably quite representive of the Slashdot crew. The question is, then, is why on earth is it on by default and why is it even there in the first place?

    This is not just a Microsoft issue, this is an issue that applies to nearly every computing project. I was recently playing with Knoppix and two things struck me:

    1. Holy shit, out of the box you can actually do real work with this software.
    2. Holy shit, I have three different products that do exactly the same thing. That's a lot of surface area for attack.

    My parents got a new HP computer a month or so ago and I've just gotten round to doing a proper security shake-down on the XP box. I was surprised to find the Python runtime on the computer. Most of you would say, so what? Or perhaps, even applaud HP for doing this. From a security perspective, I think it's downright silly. What possible use could my parents have for the Python runtime? Absoutely none. They'll be running Open Office, Gmail and Itunes to the cows come home so all this does is opens another vector for attack. Don't install stuff on computers that your customers will likely never need.

    Of all the pieces of software out there at the moment, Windows XP is the most frustrating. In terms of security, XP should completly out-class Linux/Unix in every metric of measurement. Instead, it's the most disease ridden piece of shit ever concieved by humanity. It's a shame because it could have set a really high standard for everybody in the industry but through a choice of poor defaults they condemed their own product to be a liability to CTOs everywhere. If they'd had some sense, they would have choosen defaults like this:

    1. This is an obvious one: Users should not run as administrator by default.
    2. Software Restriction Policies should be on by default - in both XP Pro and XP Home
      • Everywhere should be marked "No-Execute" except for C:\Program Files and C:\Windows.
    3. The user should only be able to write to their user directory structure by default. Everywhere else should be read-only.
    4. The Windows Scripting Host should not be install by default.
    5. ActiveX should be off by default in IE.

    I haven't got any figures on how many viruses/malware this configuration would stop but I imagine it's somewhere in the region of 99%. If Microsoft had taken the time to consider the platform in a more paranoid sense they could have produced a product of barn-storming quality. Instead, they listened to the marketing people and we all know what result that lead to.

    Simon

    1. Re:Useless functionality.. by Ckwop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If ActiveX was off by default, how would people use Windows Update?

      Simple! Change Windows Update! Why should Windows Update be a web-application anyway? Actually, It's damn scarey that it's a web-application. Doesn't it strike you as odd that a web-application can so throughly inspect your system to determine your patch-level on a whole host of products?

      There is no excuse for ActiveX being on by default and the proof of Microsoft's commitment to security will come with the launch of Internet Explorer 7. If it's still on by default in their latest version then we know their grand security initiative was nothing but hot air.

      Simon

    2. Re:Useless functionality.. by Jamesday · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can create custom security zones which don't show up in IE. Those zones are site-specific and could configure just the Windows Update site to have access to ActiveX. Microsoft could ship Windows with such a zone set up.

  16. Re:Class Action Lawsuite by Professor_UNIX · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This isn't a vulnerability, it's just how all network interfaces work on Windows. If you're really that paranoid then just disable the interface.

  17. Connecting to a network is a vulnerability now? by m50d · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I mean, I know windows security is bad, but is it really considered a compromise to simply be on the same network as the attacker's machine?

    --
    I am trolling
    1. Re:Connecting to a network is a vulnerability now? by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 2, Informative

      More than that - the Windows firewall opens many ports to those machines it considers to be on the local LAN - Netbios, etc. Since your blackhat machine *would* be on the same subnet then the Windows firewall would be essentially invisible - all that is required is to browse to the network share (assuming it's got passwordless shares, which is not unusual at all if the target is normally connected to a corporate LAN - in fact the last place I worked it was policy to do so so the management could see what you were working on).

  18. Ad-hoc networks vs link-local by e271828 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It seems like there are two different issues in play here. The RFC referenced in the article talks about link-local addressing, which is simply a way to assign an address in the 169.254/16 subnet if no DHCP server is found. It is not wireless-specific at all.

    What we have here is that, in addition to doing this, Windows is also offering to set up an ad-hoc (i.e. computer-to-computer) network on the link-local subnet with the same SSID as that of the last network the laptop connected to. I wonder what the rationale for doing this could have been. It seems to me that a machine should not offer to set up an ad-hoc network unless specifically directed to do so by the user. When such a network is set up then it is appropriate to use link-local addressing to auto-configure the interface.

  19. large violins by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 3, Funny

    Viola! His machine was assigned a different 169.254.x.x address...

    Good to see that technology journalists are so enthusiastic about orchestra instruments.

    --
    This guy's the limit!
  20. Re:Class Action Lawsuite by rikkards · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I agree with what you are saying but the only thing that could become an issue is depending on how the laptop is configured (i.e ICS is enabled), theoretically someone could use the wireless access that they have now acquired to get access to the rest of the network. I have seen with so many companies how the three top rules are ignored:
    1. No admin access with a user account. If the person is required in their job to need that level of access, create them an account that they can run the necessary app with.
    2. Utilize proxies to get access to the internet, no direct connection through the firewall. Reduces specific applications from getting out (oh and log everything)
    3. Patch your machines dammit. Hell using MS's SAS will make your job easier. Once you have tested to make sure it doesn't break anything then approve the patch for your users.

  21. It's a foot in the door. by lheal · · Score: 2, Informative
    I mean, I know windows security is bad, but is it really considered a compromise to simply be on the same network as the attacker's machine?

    Yes. Windows trusts the network. Think Active Directory. If you can trick a Windows machine into thinking you are on its network, it will happily let you be its partner (or maybe even its server) on that network. Though you probably can't trick it into being an AD client right off, you can find out all kinds of things about it, such as any shares it has open.

    This vulnerability is an enabler, rather than a gaping hole.

    What I hate is Windows' inability to route on multiple network cards. If a user is on a wireless link and they go somewhere where they plug in, Windows still thinks the wireless card is the active connection. It's been that way for years, going back to modem-PPP connections.

    Also, if you have both a wired connection and a wireless (or modem) connection and leave the wired network (connecting over wireless (or modem)), Windows can't find IP addresses that are on the wired subnet. If you have a web server on a network at work, you can't connect there over the wireless/modem link. You have to disable the wired network connection, and then it works. What a design!
    --
    Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
  22. Re:Class Action Lawsuite by kfg · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ever read the EULA?

    By reading this you agree to stand on your head, cluck like a chicken and send me a Godzillion dollars.

    EULAs are like newspapers. Just because you read something in one doesn't make it so. You cannot be legally bound to that which is not legally binding, no matter how many times you click "I Agree." EULAs are wet dreams, not contracts.

    How do you find out if you are legally bound?

    Well, you file a lawsuit to put the matter before a judge, that's how.

    KFG

  23. Re:Class Action Lawsuite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    An EULA, however restricting, is not a legal document in many countries because it conflicts with the laws of that particular country.

    For example the Microsoft EULA that ships with every Microsoft product is infact in violation of several laws in several EU countries but because no one has taken it to the court, it hasn't been deemed invalid.

    Naturally such a decision (to rule that EULA is invalid and people are entitled to compensation) would have long lasting and massive reprocussions.

  24. Err...vulnerability? by avalys · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would hardly call this a vulnerability. You're certainly no more vulnerable if someone exploits this little "feature" than you are at any other time you're
    connected to a network.

    This is such a complete non-issue, it's like a freaking joke. Read the article - all a hacker might gain some this vulnerability is the ability to connect to your computer, as if it was still on a wireless network, after you've moved outside the range of an access point. Big deal. But the author and "discoverer" both talk about it like this is a remote root exploit or something. At one point, the author includes this little gem: "As Loveless pointed out, this "feature" of Windows actually behaves somewhat like a virus." Virus, my ass.

    What's with all the foaming-at-the-mouth hype about these minor little things lately? It's counterproductive - going beserk over every slight issue that might, in some fantastic combination of circumstances be a security problem, takes away attention from flaws that actually matter.

    --
    This space intentionally left blank.
  25. Re:Class Action Lawsuite by AgentTim3 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Disclaimers of warranty are not necessarily legally binding. A decision in court would involve questions of how fair it is for MS to disclaim liability for this.

    Unfortunately it's not even about fair. With regards to security, Windows is provided "AS IS". Show me one place where Microsoft even makes the slightest guarantee about security. The product was never engineered to be secure and barring a complete rewrite it never will be. They're not dumb, they know it's not very secure, and they don't advertise it as such. They don't need to "disclaim liability", the courts need to prove why it should be assigned to them in the first place.

    Anyone who has an expectation of security in Windows is a sucker, plain and simple. Think about the common excuses: "99% of our customers use it so we have to also." "We store all our data on it, it OUGHT to be secure." "It's too expensive to switch to something else." You choose to use Windows, you get what you pay for. If you failed to do proper research and just created an assumption of security inside your head, it's your own fault. Quit whining about it.

    Everyone wants to sue Microsoft just because they exploit human stupidity, and they're really good at it. Great use of the court system.

  26. Not reall that funny by MECC · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "The funny part from the Post blog entry is that Microsoft helped author the RFC for link local."

    I really don't see how MS helping to author a usefull RFC is funny, or even relevant. What's funny is that someone at MS somehow thought it would be a good idea to open up a system to the entire world, since its clearly a thinking flaw as opposed to the usual QA flaw.

    Speaking of thinking flaws, how about this one: If a laptop running XP has a wired and wireless connections going, XP asks the user if they want to share their connection. User clicks 'yes'. XP bridges wired and wireless for them. XP also broadcasts on both sides that it will be a gateway for other systems running XP (via netbios-over-ip, IIRC). Those systems get on board, and make that computer their default gateway.

    Then the computer 'sharing' its connection, and all its 'victims' are suddenly very slow. There never seemed to be a straightforward way to prevent the other XP computers from making the dual-connected XP system their default gateway. If you manually change the default gateway on the victim systems, they just switch back to the dual-connected XP box. I don't know if XP still does this, but talk about stupid.

    Seriously, who the hell thinks this kind of thing up? Do they have brain stem storming sessions or something?

    --
    "We are all geniuses when we dream"
    - E.M. Cioran
  27. Re:Class Action Lawsuite by saskboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What we'd need is a flaw in Windows that is damaging without a specialized attack program being involved. If there were something about Windows that needed repairing because you could just press Ctrl Alt Insert instead of Delete, and bypass the login for instance, then that would in my opinion qualify as being negelgent enough for Microsoft to settle a lawsuit.

    --
    Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
  28. HELP! NIC works as intenden1?!!?!?!!? by vsync64 · · Score: 5, Funny
    Oh noes! If my network interface is up you can send me packets that I have to accept or reject?1!!?!? HWATEVER SHALL I DO PLEASE HELPE ME

    i have heard of an even worse vulnerabelity! if you hack yuor micthorwave oven to have teh door open it will JAM MY 80211 packets!!?!!?!!?!?!?!!?!

    Also risk of cooking!

    tell steve gibson of GRC he will save us

    --
    TO BUY A NEW CAR WOULD MAKE YOU SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
  29. Possible Solution by freakmn · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm not sure if this will help your exact situation, but you could try going to the network connections box, then the advanced menu, then click on advanced settings. In there, you can change the preferred order of your networks. I've used this at work, as the laptops are set by default to use the wireless connection first, but if the wireless connection is flakey, the computer gives many network errors. Setting the wired connection as a higher priority fixes a lot of problems. The only time I've had problems switching between is if it is in the middle of a file transfer during the switch.

    --
    warning: This post is likely to contain gobs of dripping sarcasm. Consume at your own risk.
  30. Be careful if you do that. by TheLink · · Score: 2, Informative

    So what if your computer automatically sets up an IP that doesn't clash, and then sets up adhoc wireless networking with the previous SSID _if_ you have your wlan interface on?

    How is that a flaw? That's a _feature_ in many cases. Especially if you really want to share files and you don't have a WAP.

    From the article: "First of all, if you are running any kind of network firewall -- including the firewall that comes built in to Windows XP -- you won't have to worry about some stranger connecting to your laptop. In fact, I had to shut down my firewall for both of us to successfully conduct our test. "

    Doh.

    If you actually care about security you'd already know that wireless networking is a lot less secure than wired networking.

    To "wise guys" trying to connect to other peoples stuff. You yourself could be exploited if you connect to any untrusted wireless LAN and try using the internet or connecting to "open" shares[1]. There's so much that can be done to _you_ that it's not funny.

    What are you going to do if your computer gets "owned" or fubared after you open a share that's called "Do Not Open" or something like that?

    People who think they are smart and connect to "open" wireless LANs run by "stupid" people should also assume the possibility that someone can sniff, hijack and fake their traffic.

    If turns out those "stupid" people aren't that stupid and are evil, your usernames and passwords could be taken, or your data. Or you could be victim of a MITM attack. What you see may not be the real thing.

    Even if they aren't actively hostile, they could log your activities too and I doubt they are under the same limitations/restrictions as ISPs.

    The company I work for provides systems that make it _easy_ for people to get connected to the internet and do their stuff - they don't have to fool around with their internet or browser settings.

    Malicious folk can do the sort of stuff we do and more for nefarious purposes.

    [1] You're running windows and you think you're smart to open some "stupid" person's unsecured shared folder? Well you better make sure you've set your My Computer and Local Intranet security settings to something safe[2]. And it's probably best to turn off "view as a webpage" and all that junk...

    Whatever O/S you are using, you better be fully patched when you expose yourself to an untrusted network. I believe many modern Linux distros have file managers that generate image previews, and there was an image library bug not so long ago.

    [2] See: http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=315933 and http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=182569

    --
  31. Re:Class Action Lawsuite by level_headed_midwest · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You mean like this:
    user@machine:~> gcc --version
    gcc (GCC) 4.0.2 20050901 (prerelease) (SUSE Linux)
    Copyright (C) 2005 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO
    warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

    --
    Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
  32. Re:Class Action Lawsuite by discojohnson · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think you meant SMS. However, to exploit this flaw requires an aweful lot of work. I would have to know which network you've been trying to connect to, then change my set up to be that. Then your settings in Windows would have to allow me to connect to you (no firewall, some other exploit that would take considerable time). People would have to be specifically targetted for this to work (minus the handful of people that have unrestricted access to their root shares and last connected to "linksys")

  33. Solution for Windows by SirDaShadow · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here's how to fix this on Windows:

    Start->Control Panel->Network Connections->Double Click on your Wireless Connection->Properties->Wireless Networks->Advanced->Choose "Access point (infrastructure) networks only. Click the Close button then Click OK all the way back. Done.