Slashdot Mirror


Who Owns Baseball Statistics?

Class Act Dynamo writes "A sports fantasy league company has asked a federal court to decided whether baseball statistics belong in the public domain as history or are the property of major league baseball. Basically, they had been licensing the statistics for nine cents (US) per gross from the Major League Baseball Players Association. But MLB recently bought the rights to be the sole licensor and has refused to renew the license of the fantasy league company. From the article: 'Major League Baseball has claimed that intellectual property law makes it illegal for fantasy league operators to commercially exploit the identities and statistical profiles of big league players.' What does the Slashdot community think? Shoud Barry Bonds' record 73 single season homeruns be in the public domain, or should I worry about having to pay royalties for the first part of this compound sentence?"

8 of 609 comments (clear)

  1. Gross Nine Cents Per? by EEBaum · · Score: 4, Informative

    The article says NINE PERCENT OF GROSS (9%), while the blurb says NINE CENTS PER GROSS ($0.000625 each). Big difference there, unless the blurb got that figure from somewhere not in the article.

    --
    -- I prefer the term "karma escort."
  2. Phonebook? by omega_cubed · · Score: 5, Informative
    They've gotta be kidding!

    Aren't there precedents with phonebooks and such that while a particular presentation of facts can be copyrighted, the facts themselves cannot? If that is the case, what is the MLB's lawyer thinking when he advised the go-ahead on the exclusive license and refusal to let fantasy league operators use the stats at a price? Or are they using an alternative definition of "Intellectual Property" that I am not aware of?

    Are they seriously trying to argue that records that a player set, as well as numbers calculated from the tabulated performance of an athelete are not facts? I seriously fail to see why MLB thinks that it has any ground here. Though, to be fair, TFA didn't give much insight to the MLB's argument since
    Jim Gallagher, a spokesman for Major League Baseball Advanced Media, baseball's Internet arm, declined comment on the lawsuit...
    --
    Engineers also speak PDE, only in a different dialect.
  3. You can't copyright raw information by crankyspice · · Score: 5, Informative

    Facts and figures cannot themselves be protected by copyright (though the selection and presentation of them can, in a very limited form). That was established pretty unambiguously in Feist Publications, Inc. v. Rural Telephone Service Co., 499 U.S. 340 (1991).

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?c ourt=US&vol=499&invol=340

    There may be some protection under the 'hot news' doctrine (International News Service v. Associated Press, 248 U.S. 215 (1918) http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?c ourt=US&vol=248&invol=215 ), but I'm pretty sure modern courts would follow the reasoning of the 2nd Circuit (though not binding on non-2nd Circuit courts, unlike the Supreme Court opinions cited above, which are binding on all U.S. courts) in National Basketball Association v. Motorola, Inc., 105 F.3d 841 (2d Cir. 1997) http://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/cases/105_F3d _841.htm ...

    In summary, MLB can shove it, IM(ns)HO.

    --
    geek. lawyer.
  4. Re:On the Subject of Baseball by Shimbo · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's even worse in England. Here the League claim copyright on fixture lists: put your club's future games on a fan site and expect your ISP to receive a takedown notice.

  5. Re:Facts? by galgon · · Score: 5, Informative

    This lawsuit is less about facts and more about players identities. A newspaper saying ballplayer X has a .241 batting average is legal because of freedom of the press and the fact that the newspaper is not using the identity of the player for commercial reasons. However, selling a product, such as baseball cards, with a picture and stats on the back is commercially using the players identity. This is a fine line I know.

    The battle going on here is whether using the players names and stats in a fantasy game amounts to using it commercially or not. This article gives a really good summary:
    http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/November-Decemb er-2005/argument_schwarz_novdec05.msp

  6. Re:Football Facts? by Stone+Pony · · Score: 4, Informative
    No, actually he's right, at least inasmuch as that the football authorities claim that the fixtures are copyright. The Guardian link (provided earlier by another poster) is quite informative on the background, which goes back to 1959.

    The claim is presumably based on the principle that the fixtures are "created" and therefore subject to copyright. If you accept that, then why should other companies be able to profit from that act of creation without recognising the rights of the creators? I imagine that this would be particularly persuasive in the case of a pools company like Littlewoods, whose entire business model was based on the football fixtures list, yet didn't really put anything back into the game at all (at least not on a corporate level: in fact, members of the Moores family, who own Littlewoods, have been involved in the ownership of both Liverpool and Everton football clubs - Everton are the other big football club in Liverpool, for the benefit of non-UK readers - at various times).

    Of course, the contrary point of view would be that compiling a fixture list is simply a cost of doing business for the football industry at large, and that any publication of fixture dates is a form of publicity for which the game should be grateful. This, however, would be inconsistent with the prevailing attitude in football, which is wring every last penny out of anyone they can by whatever means are available.

    It may be that the status quo only holds up because no-one has challenged the 1959 case. After all, the sort of media outlet which publishes the entire fixture list for every club (i.e. national newspapers, football magazines and websites etc.) probably regards £6000 (the figure mentioned in the Guardian) as small potatoes compared to the aggravation of going to court. Legal action only ever seems to be threatened against these one-man-and-a-dog sort of operations.

    The key difference between the situation here and what MLB is trying to do, though, is that baseball stats are matters of historical fact. Barry Bonds either did or did not hit 73 homers. Kerry Wood did or did not fan 20 Astros in a game. I don't see how that can be "owned".

  7. Re:Facts? by dominator · · Score: 4, Informative
    No, you can't copyright facts or even collections of facts. SCOTUS has decreed that Copyright doesn't attach to them in the 1991 landmark decision of Feist v. Rural.


    The ruling has major implications for any project that serves as a collection of knowledge. Information (that is facts, discoveries, etc.), from any source, is fair game, but cannot contain any of the "expressive" content added by the source author.
  8. Re:Facts vs. Database by dominator · · Score: 4, Informative
    Importantly, Feist v. Rural was a case about databases (phone books, specifically). Before Feist, courts used a "sweat of the brow" rule, which meant that anyone who invested significant effort into creating a work was entitled to copyright protection for that work. In their unanimous ruling, the Court reversed this precedent in Feist.


    It is a long-standing principle of United States copyright law that "information" is not copyrightable, O'Connor notes, but "collections" of information can be. Rural claimed a collection copyright in its directory. The court clarified that the intent of copyright law was not, as claimed by Rural and some lower courts, to reward the efforts of persons collecting information, but rather "to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts" (U.S. Const. 1.8.8), that is, to encourage creative expression.

    Since facts are purely copied from the world around us, O'Connor concludes, "the sine qua non of copyright is originality".

    Congress is considering new legislation to "protect" databases, thus effectively nullifying the ruling in Feist.

    Of course, the MLB does not *have* to sell this data to anyone if they don't want to, and they could stop licensees from redistributing the data under contract law. But they can't stop other people from collecting this data and selling it. Nor can they enforce their "no recounts or descriptions of this game is permitted without the express written consent of MLB and $TV_STATION" clause either. No one owns facts.