Slashdot Mirror


Jobs' Invitation To Microsoft a Trap?

An anonymous reader writes "Chris Seibold over at Apple Matters, has written up an interesting analysis on Steve Jobs' suggestion that Microsoft make their own mp3 player. He argues that it is more bait than business plan, a deft move by Steve Jobs to lure Microsoft into a can't-win war. The key, according to the article, is the licensing of FairPlay." From the article: "The folks who stick with Microsoft get to fight over, roughly, twenty percent of the market. The folks that go with Apple would be aligning themselves with what has become the industry standard. The players that license FairPlay would have access to the iTunes store, backwards compatibility with the songs consumers have already purchased, and a chance to compete on a perfectly level playing field with the iPod. It doesn't take a Stanford MBA to deduce that the potential rewards of opting to use FairPlay far outstrip the rewards of going with PlaysForSure."

31 of 369 comments (clear)

  1. Immortal Words... by dsginter · · Score: 5, Funny

    In the immortal words of Bruce Cambell (Ash):

    Its a trick. Get an Axe!

    --
    More
    1. Re:Immortal Words... by plover · · Score: 4, Funny
      I prefer to recall the immortal words of Admiral Ackbar (and every Farker ever born):

      "It's a trap!"

      --
      John
    2. Re:Immortal Words... by KrazzeeKooter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Thank you! I'm very disapointed in this post... it seems to root for apple when the whole damn drm thing is evil... I don't know about you but I'm not going to participate in anything that requires me to "buy" or "licensce" protection. It's fundamentally evil. It's called racketeering.

      --
      I am a monkey. This is slashdot.
  2. Sorry couldn't resist. by Premo_Maggot · · Score: 4, Funny

    Admiral Ackbar: It's a trap!!!!

    --
    Good karma sticks to me like velcro on a piece of plexiglass.
    Move along, citizen.
  3. no DRM, thanks by _Shorty-dammit · · Score: 4, Insightful

    or a consumer could just stick with their own music sources that require no DRM at all. That's what I'll be doing, no thanks Apple/MS/anyone else.

    1. Re:no DRM, thanks by Jugalator · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And that is, according to most statistics I've heard of, the actual standard for users.

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    2. Re:no DRM, thanks by Zone-MR · · Score: 4, Insightful

      10 years ago, FairPlay/PlayForSure wouldn't have been much of a deciding factor. Microsoft would have reverse-engineered FairPlay and made their players fully compatible with the iPod.

      Now, thanks to wonderful laws like the DMCA, we've reached a world where every track you buy is licensed to a specific device type and/or hardware manufacturer.

      If today's laws were around 10 years ago, Compaq would not have been able to legally reverse-engineer the IBM BIOS, and the PC revolution would have been set back several years - something which is happening now with digital music players.

  4. And wouldn't that create... by JFMulder · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... a monopoly? Wow. Slashdot actually endorsing monopolies now.

    1. Re:And wouldn't that create... by m50d · · Score: 5, Funny

      You misunderstand the code of the typical slashdotter:
      evaluate(){
      if(apple)
          return good;
      else if(microsoft)
          return bad;
      else if(google)
          return good;
      else if(DRM)
          return bad;
      else if(open source)
          return good;
      else if(monopoly)
          return bad;
      ...

      --
      I am trolling
    2. Re:And wouldn't that create... by Pneuma+ROCKS · · Score: 5, Funny
      You misunderstand the code of the typical slashdotter:
      evaluate(){
      if(apple)
          return good;
      else if(microsoft)
          return bad;
      else if(google)
          return good;
      else if(DRM)
          return bad;
      else if(open source)
          return good;
      else if(monopoly)
          return bad;
      ...
      else
          return CowboyNeal;
      --
      Favorite quote: "
  5. Anti-Trust by oostevo · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I'm not up on my Antitrust/competiton laws at all, so this is more a question than a comment.

    From the article:
    "Jobs reasons that since iTunes and the iPod use the vertical integration model that Microsoft could use the same tactic to finally relegate the iPod to the technical trash bin. In theory, the system would work as follows: Microsoft would bundle a music playing program with every PC that, of course, pointed to an iTunes like music store. The model would be completed when people buy a Microsoft produced digital audio player. Consumers, being the lazy slugs they are, would take the path of least resistance. Inevitably, iPod marginalization would ensue."

    Did Microsoft get in trouble for this sort of anti-competitive bundling before? If so, are they really stupid enough to try it again on such a large scale?

    --
    In soviet russia, You ask not what country do for you, but what you do for country!
    Oh wait...
    1. Re:Anti-Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They got in "trouble," but its quite likely that the benefits of doing this and killing the iPod would far outweigh any consequences.

    2. Re:Anti-Trust by jacksonj04 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It does. WPM 10 has native music store support, backed with PlaysForSure and the Janus DRM system.

      Luckily, the interface seems like it was designed by monkeys on crack and nobody in their right mind wants to use it.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
  6. itunes-killer by dirvish · · Score: 4, Insightful

    M$ should continue to focus on software. Maybe an itunes-killer; let everyone else worry about an ipod-killer. There is still money in selling music.

  7. Words... by TWX · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For some reason, FairPlay and PlaysForSure both remind me of products in dystopian science fiction novels by the likes of William Gibson and Neal Stephenson...

    I guess that the truth is stranger than fiction.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:Words... by BearRanger · · Score: 5, Funny

      DoublePlusUngood...

    2. Re:Words... by podperson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      FairPlay -- you can burn up to 10 CDs containing the files without changing the track setup (but assuming you permute or modify the tracklist you can burn as many as you like); you can authorize up to three different computers to play the track simultaneously; you can copy and backup the files as you like; you own the files...

      OK -- that sounds fair to me.

      PlaysForSure -- doesn't play AT ALL on the most popular music player on the market.

      Now, that sounds Orwellian to me.

    3. Re:Words... by brianosaurus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      DRM-free mp3 files beat the hell out of both FairPlay and Playz-Fer-Sher!

      My mp3s play on all of my computers, all of my mp3 players (2 ipods, oakley glasses (they were a GIFT), empeg car, xbox media center...

      FairPlay plays on a few of my macs at a time; only 4 because, sadly, one of my "authorized" computers got blown away when I reinstalled the OS on that box. I'm sure there's a way to resolve this, but its one of those steps that "keeps honest users" from using the iTunes Store. So I can't play FairPlay songs on 2 macs (more than 5 in this household... is Steve Jobs trying to tell me I buy too many boxes from him?), 2 PCs, my car, my non-ipod mp3 players, or my xboxes. That ain't fair. I've stopped using the iTMS, since I'd have to convert them to mp3 if I want to listen to them (and that's against the license).

      PlaysForSure - somehow I doubt those will play anywhere in my house. Hmm... Maybe on the windows laptop we keep around for configuring a couple of devices that are *only* supported by Windows, but sometimes I like to listen to music outside of my office cabinets, where these files SurelyWon'tPlay.

      For now I'm still "stuck" buying CDs and ripping them myself. The only real drawback is having to store all of the physical media (as backups) in boxes somewhere in my basement once its ripped to disk.

      --
      blog
  8. FairPlay Licensing? by Tibor+the+Hun · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Does Apple even have any plans on licensing FairPlay, or is this another blogger speculating about the mighty Apple?

    --
    If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
    1. Re:FairPlay Licensing? by timster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is no reason whatsoever to license FairPlay, but the reason for this is not obvious.

      The truth is that there cannot be meaningful competition in the field of online RIAA music stores because all the music comes from the same handful of sources. There is no way for the different stores to have a meaningfully different collection or meaningfully different price structure. Apple could license FairPlay as Microsoft licenses PlaysForSure, but that merely obscures the fact that the music industry is still in control of the entire process.

      Given a lack of competition in the music industry, Apple opening up the iTMS would not actually create more customer choice; rather, it reduces Apple's leverage on the industry and we can assume that the music industry will keep the extra power for itself. Without control over the iPod, Apple has nothing and the music industry will force everyone toward things like subscription services, whole-album downloads, and probably higher prices.

      --
      I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
    2. Re:FairPlay Licensing? by radish · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is no reason whatsoever to license FairPlay

      Of course there's a reason to license FairPlay - actually quite a few.

      Firstly there's allowing your customers to play the music they purchase from you on the device of their choice, whether a competitor to one of your own or one in a market you don't support - for example a network media player (e.g. Squeezebox or Sonos) or a car-based player (e.g. Phatbox). Secondly there's bringing new customers to your music store by attracting those who, for whatever reason, don't choose to buy your players (say goodbye to Rhapsody, Napster, et al). I'm sure there are more I can't think of right now (income from licensing fees? Could be quite substantial in itself).

      However, of course, these are not good reasons (well, not good for Apple's accountants) because as we all know iTMS (and therefore FairPlay) exists for one reason and one reason alone - to sell iPods. Anything which dilutes the iTMS/iPod coupling is bad for Apple, hence they will never license FairPlay. Don't kid yourself that Apple are keeping FairPlay locked up for your benefit, they're a corporation just like any other - their only driver is the bottom line.

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

  9. HA HA! See, we can play Monopolsoft too! by Cyclops · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This looks more like Apple leveraging on their near monopoly on digital audio players in order to bring their competitors down on their knees.

    You know... like Microsoft leveraging on their near monopoly to force down your throat Internet Explorer, MSN, Media Player, Anti-vírus, personal accounting, etc...

    Even though it's a sweet irony, it's just as bad. By the way, I know very few in Portugal who have an iPod versus other brands, is this monopoly only in the USA?

    1. Re:HA HA! See, we can play Monopolsoft too! by kannibal_klown · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wouldn't call any of their products monopolies here. They're just currently "hip".

      Apple does not have a near-monopoly on the mp3 player market. There are tons of mp3 players out there that sell well. Unfortunately, no company has gone the extra mile to try to set up an online store that integrates so well. iRiver does pretty well and makes sweet mp3 players. There are a bunch of other major brands and a great many cheap mp3 players available. The iPod is just very successful.

      iTunes isn't the only business in town, it's just apparently the most successful. This is partly due to its seemless integration with iPod and the iTunes. A killer combination.

      I know a bunch of people with iPods, but I also know a bunch of people that have various other brands. Personally, I have a small flash-based player made by iRiver, and before that I had a Rio Karma.

    2. Re:HA HA! See, we can play Monopolsoft too! by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 4, Informative

      How is one company's CEO suggesting another company can't win unless they adopt their approach a "bad" thing? What is monopolistic about it? In fact, isn't suggesting someone else offer a product kinda, well, anti-monopolistic?

      You can freely buy a competing MP3 player. If Apple was, say, strong-arming retail stores into only selling iPods the way Microsoft forced Windows onto OEMs, THEN get back to me with the "evil monopoly" talk. Until then, whatevah.

      --
      "Sufferin' succotash."
  10. Uh oh by Andrewkov · · Score: 5, Funny

    Uh oh, the chairs will be flying at Microsoft over this..

  11. Microsoft iPod killer? by porky_pig_jr · · Score: 4, Funny

    but wouldn't Ballmer doing gorilla dance while stomping on iPod make him a 'Microsoft iPod killer'?

  12. A psych out attempt? :P by fortinbras47 · · Score: 5, Funny
    Maybe Jobs wants Microsoft to think its a trap because it's actually a good idea!

    It reminds me of the movie The Princess Bride...

    Vizzini: But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

  13. Turn to page 42 of the Slashdot hymnal by DrRobert · · Score: 4, Funny

    Lets all sing together... "Apple is in the Hardware Business"

  14. An Industry What ??? by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 5, Insightful
    would be aligning themselves with what has become the industry standard.

    I call Bullshit.

    How is anything an industry standard when only one company sells it? Even Motorola has dropped it from their ROKR phones. Something becomes an industry standard when an entire industry adopts it, and not just because the largest current player in that market uses it.

    Even the claim in this article that MS should make their own MP3 player is bogus. By definition an MP3 player doesn't user FairPlay. It plays MP3 files. A FairPlay player uses FairPlay.

    This is just badly written all around.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  15. Rip your CD collection by tepples · · Score: 4, Informative

    When you use iTunes software to rip your CD collection to MP3 or M4A for use with your iPod player, the ripped files do not have any form of digital restrictions management. It's extremely common in the United States and Canada for somebody to own 28 hours worth of CDs, which is enough to fill a 2 GB player at 160 kbps.

  16. Apple not "really" digital audio industry leader by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... The folks who stick with Microsoft get to fight over, roughly, twenty percent of the market. The folks that go with Apple would be aligning themselves with what has become the industry standard. The players that license FairPlay would have access to the iTunes store, backwards compatibility with the songs consumers have already purchased, and a chance to compete on a perfectly level playing field with the iPod. It doesn't take a Stanford MBA to deduce that the potential rewards of opting to use FairPlay far outstrip the rewards of going with PlaysForSure ...

    I own an iPod, I'd be perfectly happy to see Apple win. But declaring the issue already decided, that's just Apple's spin, and the wishful thinking of fans. This could turn out like Apple's mocking welcome of IBM to the personal computer business in the early 1980s.

    Apple is not "really" the industry leader for digital audio in any real sense, only in a transitory early adopter phase sense. Calm down, hang on for a few lines ... Apple enjoyed a hardware lead and an application software lead when they mocked IBM's entry into the personal computer maketplace. Apple's computer lead then, and their digital audio lean now, may be more similar than many people around here realize. Basically, digital audio is only in it's infancy, as personal computer ownership was in the early 80s. As personal computer ownership became "mainstream" Apple became marginalized. The same could happen with digital audio, the bulk of the population is still not committed to any player/format. Microsoft could, I'm not saying will - only could, be the choice for the bulk of the population for a variety of reasons. One of which is that it is not going to be portable players that decide the digital music issue, it is going to be car stereos, home stereos, etc. Whoever get's their digital media appliance in the living room is probably going to be the ultimate winner. It might be Apple, it might be Microsoft, it will be years before the issue is really decided.

    iPod's popularity may be transitory, we don't know how many owners are truly locked in by a large library of DRM'd iTunes Music Store (iTMS) purchases. Whatever people rip themselves with iTunes is not DRM'd and my understanding is that the vast bulk of digital audio is ripped, not from iTMS. Even if a person has DRM'd files that are not portable, the fact that they paid for the music lowers the barrier to their getting replacement files via file sharing, they are not really "stealing" in their own minds, they already "own" the song. It's much like people who in the napster days felt OK downloading a song they owned on vinyl or cassette rather than CD.