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Hollywood Reporter on Game Writing

Posted by Zonk on from the they-do-indeed-write-them dept.

Via GameSetWatch, a story at the Hollywood reporter site on the process of writing a videogame. From the article: "'For me, writing is like gold,' says David Perry, president of Atari's Shiny Entertainment studio. 'It saddens me a lot that many video game companies don't hire triple-A writers and that they use their game designers instead. That's why, when real writers look at video game stories, they kind of roll their eyes. But that's something that I see changing, I really do.'" This guy probably has more than a little bit to do with that.

52 comments

  1. Writing a good game is unbelievably hard. by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I sympathize with the writers a bit on this one. We're not just talking about 'adapting' a story from book or play to the big screen, which is fraught with its own perils. Writing for the interactive screen is really an entirely new discipline, and one that we are still struggling to understand and create a common language for. If you think about something like the film Memento, and what would be required to write that properly - then imagine that you could experience that linear flow of events from multiple vantage points, multiple timelines... it gets pretty hairy, pretty fast. Then throw in the fact that characters - including the protagonist - can have multiple responses and conversational threads... eccchh. (Anyone remember Ultima 3? What keyword can I bounce off this NPC that will make them regurgitate the clue I need... I resorted to pseudo-dictionary-attacks on some of those).

    Also, the expectations for 'game time' are way beyond what a film offers. The amount of dialog in some games is comparable to a novel (those epic RPGs with 20, 30, 40+ hours in them). No wonder the quality suffers.

    --
    If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
    1. Re:Writing a good game is unbelievably hard. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. A completely different discipline entirely actually, it's questionable as to whether games are really even stories in the traditional sense of the word. There are now armies of people studying this kind of thing (http://ludology.org/index.php). And actually, more discussion of this story here: http://www.dadmobile.com/trawler Interesting stuff!

    2. Re:Writing a good game is unbelievably hard. by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      The amount of dialog in some games is comparable to a novel (those epic RPGs with 20, 30, 40+ hours in them). No wonder the quality suffers.

      No, that's not actually true. You forget that by far the biggest time-consumer in an RPG is combat, which has very little text compared to dialogue.

      The reason most RPG stories stuck (even Final Fantasy stories) is that their inspiration is typically fantasy literature, which has always had a potboiler reputation, and because their target audience is easily impressed with a thin veneer of insight: "It's great because, in this one, God and the church is evil, and the devil is actually good!"

      There are RPGs with good writing, however. The Grandia games, I've always found, are extremely well-written and filled with memorable characters. Dragon Quest/Warrior games are among the most text-heavy RPGs you can find and usually it's not bad. The various Mario RPGs (I don't know about the original since it's been too long, but definitely the two Paper Marios and two Mario & Luigis) have sparkling writing.

      And of course there may be others outside my experiential radar. But I really don't think that the majority of them are well-written.

    3. Re:Writing a good game is unbelievably hard. by jchenx · · Score: 1

      Most of the examples you have cited are very linear RPGs, meaning there's a lot of control as to where the main character is, what they're doing, etc. There's little conversation choice, so it's a lot easier to craft a decent storyline out of it. That's one reason why I like many "old school" or Japanese-style RPGs. The stories, while not amazingly great (I'm sure a lot is lost in translation), can still be surprisingly deep and entertaining.

      However more open-ended games like Knights of the Old Republic, Fable, or Morrowind have a lot of the problems that the grandparent mentioned. I find those games do suffer a lot in the storyline angle. (Not that it's always bad, but it's much harder to succeed)

      I think the Baldur's Gate games are a good example of an open-ended game with great writing, but it can take a LONG time to develop, with a LOT of dedication.

      --
      -- jchenx
    4. Re:Writing a good game is unbelievably hard. by MilenCent · · Score: 2, Insightful

      However more open-ended games like Knights of the Old Republic, Fable, or Morrowind have a lot of the problems that the grandparent mentioned. I find those games do suffer a lot in the storyline angle. (Not that it's always bad, but it's much harder to succeed)

      One way to overcome this is to leave some of the "story" in the mind of the reader. It's not easy to do itself, but when it works it can be potent. This is one of the things that make Nethack interesting, in that the game is so complex that it begs the player to compose a narrative about his character. Many of the more interesting posts over at rec.games.roguelike.nethack are those in which these stories are related.

      The Sims is also a game in which the player's mind supplies the story. Indeed, if you don't look at it that way, there's not really a whole lot of game there.

      In the future, algorithmic storytelling will be a potential source of aid in making open-ended stories possible, although it is a field in which surprisingly little work has been done. (Here's hoping Chris Crawford is hurrying as fast he can....)

  2. adventure games by chaotropic+agent · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I guess these guys have never heard of them.

    1. Re:adventure games by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Well, adventure games are generally an ignored genre at the moment. Of course Infocom featured some of the best writing seen in any computer entertainment, Lucasarts made some *wonderful* games, and there's even the occaisional recent success like Phoenix Wright. But on the whole, there are not a lot of adventure games being released these days. Perhaps it's even directly because of their great emphasis on story.

    2. Re:adventure games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      David Perry is known for his mouth, not his knowledge of gaming.

    3. Re:adventure games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even adventure games have been going downhill lately. What was the plot in Return to Mysterious Island? Eh?

      1. Crash on an island.
      2. Meet a monkey.
      3. OMGzzzz Captain Nemo!
      4. Fucking robots!
      5. Your cell phone works. Fade out while you're still waiting to be rescued.

      I'm sorry - that is a piss poor storyline any way you look at it. The Seventh Guest had more cohesive writing. Hell, Sanitarium had the most well-written story I've played through in a while, and even that used the tired "it was all a dream" ending.

  3. This is the right thing to pick... by jclast · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you're developing a game, and you've only got so much money to go around, story is the right thing to cut some corners on.

    How many of us play Super Mario for the story? Or Sly Cooper? Or Ikaruga? I'd much rather see fun games with crappy or non-existant stories than great stories with a crappy game wrapped around it.

    I've shelved quite a few games due to control problems or difficulty frustrations, but I've never put down a game that was fun to play because the story was sub-par.

    --
    e2 | LJ
    1. Re:This is the right thing to pick... by Obi-w00t · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I agree totally. Remember the John Carmack quote: "Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important."

    2. Re:This is the right thing to pick... by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've shelved quite a few games due to control problems or difficulty frustrations, but I've never put down a game that was fun to play because the story was sub-par.

      I have a different perspective. I enjoy FPS games, for the most part. I enjoy both the multiplayer and single player modes. Of all the FPS games out there, I think I've played all the way through two of them in my entire life. The reason for that is that game play inevitably becomes repetitive. Run and shoot and shoot and run. Gee, after about 48 hours I'm done. The two FPS games I can remember playing all the way through are the old Marathon 2 and newer Wolfenstein. Marathon 2, if you've never played it, had the single best, most developed and engaging story ever in an FPS. It was possible to beat the game without reading some of the mission information, but I don't know anyone who did that. The plot was just too interesting and the characters too fun. Whether an egotistical AI was blackmailing you into a suicide mission, or an insane AI was spewing poetry at you, it was fascinating.

      Another important thing I think should be kept in mind is that game players have different tastes. Maybe you don't like plots. Maybe most current gamers don't like plots. But, maybe, just maybe, a significant portion of the population, many of whole can't stand current game offerings, really do like plots. I'll play all sorts of games, but I don't devote significant time to any game that does not have a lot of variety and story to hold my interest. Consequently, I won't pay much money for games without a good story.

    3. Re:This is the right thing to pick... by jclast · · Score: 1

      I thought this might happen. I enjoy plots in video games a lot. I play many RPGs for this reason and because I like most of the battle systems.

      The story and QTE in Shenmue was what kept me hooked.

      My point is that the first thing any game needs is good, fun, and/or interesting mechanics.

      Would you have finished either of those games if the AI was crap, it was too easy, and it just didn't seem fun?

      Story is important in some games, but solid gameplay mechanics still come first because if the _only_ thing I wanted was a good story, I'd go watch a movie or read a book.

      --
      e2 | LJ
    4. Re:This is the right thing to pick... by Kesch · · Score: 1

      I disagree, some of the REALLY good games in most genres are known not for their graphics but their gameplay and stories.
      RPG: Too many to mention. Final Fantasy and KOTOR stand out.
      RTS: Warcraft 3
      Not-sure-what category: GTA
      Adventure: Every friggin one

      If developers really needed to cut somewhere, I would cut on graphics. I would rather have great gameplay, a great story, and decent graphics over great gameplay, a crappy story, and good graphics. The exception would be FPSs. That genre lives and dies by the pixels.

      --
      If this signature is witty enough, maybe somebody will like me.
    5. Re:This is the right thing to pick... by jclast · · Score: 1

      You've definitely got a good point there. I suppose I should have been narrower in my original post. My intended meaning was this:

      If you have to choose between great gameplay mechanics and a great story, you pick gameplay mechanics.

      It doesn't matter if every single other thing about a game is great, if it's a chore to play, people will set it down.

      And for what it's worth, I don't think I was advocating spending the money on graphics. Just like I'd rather have fun with no story, I'd rather have fun with sub-par graphics than kick-ass graphics with a crap story.

      Of the big three, my priorities in a game are:
      1.) Mechanics (well executed and fun)
      2.) Story (does it have/need one? If so, is it any good)
      3.) Graphics (are they passable?)

      --
      e2 | LJ
    6. Re:This is the right thing to pick... by Jarlsberg · · Score: 1

      Sure, and that's why people prefer Quake 2 to Half-life. A good story is becoming more important, especially if you're going to reach out to non-gamers.

      For the record, Sierra always had good, fleshed out stories. And so did Lucasarts, and Infocom. It's with the FPS's that the good stories seemed to take second seat to graphics, but this has changed to, with Half-life 2 and Halo getting credit for good back stories.

    7. Re:This is the right thing to pick... by Supurcell · · Score: 1
      Not-sure-what category: GTA
      That would be Murder Simulator.
    8. Re:This is the right thing to pick... by engagebot · · Score: 1

      I think you're right, but it can go either way really.

      Its the games that have *both* that are the ones everybody has to have. Think Halo, Metal Gear Solid, etc. Those are the games that are all around well-built, and that includes the story.

      The obvious exception is online multiplayer modes. Like UT or Quake. Even Command and Conquer. Playing against other people IS the point, so you don't care about the story.

      But then again, you've got WoW and the like, where the story is actually important again....

      --
      Han shot first.
    9. Re:This is the right thing to pick... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I've shelved quite a few games due to control problems or difficulty frustrations, but I've never put down a game that was fun to play because the story was sub-par"

      I keep trying to finish Prince of Persia - The Sands of Time, but keep putting down again after getting fed up for the Nth time because the clumsy controls and cruddy camera angles keep getting me killed in large battles and long puzzle sequences.

    10. Re:This is the right thing to pick... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      If you're developing a game, and you've only got so much money to go around, story is the right thing to cut some corners on.

      I say cut the graphics first. A strong plot with strong gameplay makes for a great game no matter what it looks like. The classics from 10 years ago stand out because they have awesome gameplay, not because they're graphically impressive. One of the reasons Nethack is so brilliant is that the graphics are so simple that most developer effort can be put into balancing game play.

      So cut the graphics first. You won't sell as many copies, but you'll make a better game. And isn't that what's most important in the end?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    11. Re:This is the right thing to pick... by servognome · · Score: 1

      So cut the graphics first. You won't sell as many copies, but you'll make a better game. And isn't that what's most important in the end?

      Money of course.

      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
    12. Re:This is the right thing to pick... by incubusnb · · Score: 1

      if thats all you think GTA is, then you havn't sat down to actually play the missions.

      --
      /. is overrun by bed-wetting elitist nerds
      let it be known, for anything other than servers, a *nix OS sucks
    13. Re:This is the right thing to pick... by Bugmaster · · Score: 1
      There's a genre of games, called "adventure games", which rely primarily on story, and dialogue, to provide their entertainment. The story is their gameplay mechanic. Planescape Torment, The Longest Journey, the venerable Quest for Glory, the eminent Monkey Island, and of course Chrono Trigger... without good writing, these games would not be worth playing. At all.

      Even more traditional games, such as first-person shooters, can benefit greatly from a good story. Without the story, Half-Life and Deus Ex would be just shooters, not the phenomenal games that they actually were. And if you imagine System Shock without the story, what you get is F.E.A.R. -- a boring, run-of-the-mill shooter with delusions of horror. On the strategy side, compare Age of Whatever with Starcraft. Which one sticks more in your mind ? Even MMORPGs, populated mostly by people who can barely read or write, rely on the story to immerse the players in their soul-sucking worlds -- in fact, I believe good writing is one of the reasons why WoW is so popular, despite their numerous bugs.

      Personally, I'd rather play a well-written game with poor graphics, than a shiny pretty game full of bells and whistles whose sole purpose is to get you from level N to level N+1.

      --
      >|<*:=
    14. Re:This is the right thing to pick... by wheany · · Score: 1

      So cut the graphics first. You won't sell as many copies, but you'll make a better game. And isn't that what's most important in the end?

      No dear, sales are not important at all.

    15. Re:This is the right thing to pick... by jclast · · Score: 1

      I agree with you. As I posted above, my priorities, in order, are gameplay mechanics, story, then graphics.

      The point I was making is that it doesn't matter how great the story is if a game is a chore to play.

      --
      e2 | LJ
  4. hahaha by Ender+Ryan · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Yeeeeaaaahh... 'cause Hollywood writers are so fantastic eh?

    Just the thought of a Hollywood writer rolling their eyes at *anything* seems so laughable to me. I mean... COME ON, Hollywood is where the stupidest stories in the world are thought up!

    --
    Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
    1. Re:hahaha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeeeeaaaahh... 'cause Hollywood writers are so fantastic eh? Just the thought of a Hollywood writer rolling their eyes at *anything* seems so laughable to me. I mean... COME ON, Hollywood is where the stupidest stories in the world are thought up!

      Oh yes. I worked on a game several years ago, where the publishers insisted that we had to have a "real writer" do the story. So they hired a Hollywood script writer, and didn't get much change from $100k.

      The script was unusable. We were aiming for a G rating, and we got a script with things like a black gangsta drug dealer, and a 15 year old girl getting drunk and getting it on with a 50 year old. Also, the script shut out a lot of the game-play we were aiming for, and left just a series of small unrelated mini-games. A complete waste of money, but the script writer's manager told us we were out of touch with the market, and that this was what audiences wanted to see this year.

      Since then, we've always used a game designer to write the scripts. But he's not expected to do half a dozen other things as well, writing a decent script is a full time job.

    2. Re:hahaha by jackbird · · Score: 1

      And you paid up front? Suckers.

  5. A game is not a story. A game is a place. by Animats · · Score: 1
    A video game is not a "story". A video game is a place that you go.

    If there's too much "story" in a video game, you end up with what the industry derisvely calls a "track ride", where the player is locked onto a track and must ride through the storyline. Once that was necessary, because we couldn't build big free-play worlds. Today, it's not. We're also past the "cut-scene era", where the cut scenes had the good graphics while the game graphics looked like crap. That's been fixed.

    It's hard for screenwriters to accept that they're not in charge of the plot. This is a constant source of friction between the story-oriented types from Hollywood and game developers. (And it's a nightmare to developers stuck writing a licensed game based on a major film. Fortunately, control is moving the other way. We're now seeing successful films based on games. We all have Angelina Jolie to thank for that.) Too much "story" in a game usually results in long periods during which the game blithers at the player, with player action locked out. This kills game flow.

    GTA does not have a "story". It has subplots.

    The future is AI-driven NPCs that can say and do something clever in response to events. It's not some voice-over "These are the Mountains of Dispair, which you must cross".

  6. Re:A game is not a story. A game is a place. by bluewolfcv · · Score: 1

    It was because of the story in FFX that I actually decided to pick up a controller and start playing games (first time since Tetris), instead of watching my brother do it all.

    Since then, I've been hooked on playing games just to get to the story. Neverwinter Nights? Played because of the story. Warcraft 3? Played because of the story.

    I can put down a game with fantastic graphics and great gameplay, but if it doesn't have a story, I'll probably get bored with it fairly quicky and not pick it up ever again. There has to be *some* reason to go through 40+ hours of play.

  7. Re:A game is not a story. A game is a place. by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

    The future is AI-driven NPCs that can say and do something clever in response to events. It's not some voice-over "These are the Mountains of Dispair, which you must cross".

    Maybe, maybe not. The thing you are missing is the dialogue and actions of the NPCs (whether AI or actor driven) have to be written. A good game for me includes a good story that provides motivation and a framework for action. The problem is, by focusing too much on just the gameplay, games end up hiring a third-rate hack that writes up NPC dialogue and plot, which results in really, really cheesy and uninteresting story. I'll give many games a try, but I always get bored with them unless there is a story or plot. Playing with other PCs online is great, when I feel like that. But, very few players are great conversationalists, nor can they direct the course of events, or initiate large amounts of action, outside of a very specific framework. For this sort of story, you need good writers. Otherwise, the experience becomes repetitive, like grinding in WoW, and I quickly lose interest.

  8. The worst movies are based on games, actually by ianscot · · Score: 1
    We're with you in scoffing at the idea that Hollywood churns out Charlie Kaufmans or William Faulkners -- but it's worth pointing out that movies based on video games have been, almost universally, excruciatingly bad.

    Even next to such pedestrian fare as the run-of-the-mill Ahnold ouvre... Well, "Kindergarten Cop" would pretty well kick the pants of any "Warcraft" title. Not to mention the painful voice acting.

    (My choice for a model gaming company in this sense would be the pre-MS Bungie. Marathon Series. Myth and Myth II. They had the production values in order and did things right.)

    --
    "Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
  9. John Carmack knows what he does by ianscot · · Score: 1
    When we want a FPS with new lighting effects, we'll call John C. I can't say I've ever stuck with one of his titles for more than a day, though.

    When we want a superbly well-rounded game, I'll ask Bungie or the Zelda team at Nintendo.

    --
    "Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
    1. Re:John Carmack knows what he does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When we want a superbly well-rounded game, I'll ask Bungie

      Bungie? You call 300 miles of identical corridors, followed by the crappiest boss fight ever and no ending, "superbly well-rounded"?

      Bonus points to anyone who can guess whether I was referring to Halo or Halo 2.

    2. Re:John Carmack knows what he does by Pluvius · · Score: 1

      Bungie existed before Halo.

      Rob

  10. Stolen Icon! by Veretax · · Score: 0

    Call me crazy, but isn't that site's favorite icon a rip of the old netscape navigator logo?

  11. MCA anyone? by Ekarderif · · Score: 1

    Chris Avellone is "only" a game designer. And he has crafted one of the most complex and beautiful storylines ever made in any medium, not just video games.

    1. Re:MCA anyone? by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Er, I hope I'm not being blitheringly stupid when I ask, what is MCA?

    2. Re:MCA anyone? by jchenx · · Score: 1

      I had to look this one up too ... Google is your friend: http://www.rpgcodex.com/peopledetails.php?id=41/. For those lazy to check the link, Chris Avellone also goes by the alias "MCA".

      He's responsible for one of the great games rarely played ... Planescape: Torment. I did play that and have to agree it had a wonderful, intruiging storyline, and was just a great game all around. From TFA, it also had an amazing amount of dialogue too.

      --
      -- jchenx
    3. Re:MCA anyone? by Ekarderif · · Score: 1

      The article underestimated the amount of text. There's about 1.4 million words total. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planescape:_Torment/

    4. Re:MCA anyone? by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Aaah, everyone raves about Planescape Torment. I've gotta find a copy somewhere -- right after I find copies of Grim Fandango and Starship Titanic.

    5. Re:MCA anyone? by jchenx · · Score: 1

      Just reading back the Wikipedia entry brings back good memories of the game. It'd be great if they ever did a remake of that game, or maybe create another game set in that universe. Grim Fandango is also well worth playing through once. Not sure about Starship Titanic though.

      --
      -- jchenx
  12. True Interactive Storytelling by Boxcarwilli · · Score: 1

    Please HL was not written in the context of an "interactive story", it was simply a script where every decision leads you down a pretermined path, hardly interactive.

    Chris Crawford is the one everyone should be listening to. Especially his latest book. Every game "writer" should have this on their shelf.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Crawford_(game_ designer)

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321278909/qid=11 38049708/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-9723489-7707326?n =507846&s=books&v=glance

  13. Re:A game is not a story. A game is a place. by the+Brightside · · Score: 1
    Video games are stories. They are stories that you are actually a part of, and that's the difference between Hollywood and the game industry (EA excepted).

    Everything you do requires a narrative framework in which to do it, otherwise you have a nihilistic sandbox with no victory condition. Games require rules, victory conditions, and the ability to act in regard to the rules, else it's not a game by definition. Whether you recognize it or not, the idea of the game is simply a narrative in motion.

    If plot was truly unimportant to the game process, companies wouldn't bother injecting even a half-ass story into their work. They'd just leave it out because putting any time into a segment of the game requires valuable, life-giving money. The fact that some developers, and ID is mostly responsible here, put so little effort into anything that might resemble a story really late after 4 beers is because they know they can't get away with not doing so.

    To rephrase your initial statement, games are places that you go. Without a story, there's no damn reason to ever go there in the first place.

  14. Re:A game is not a story. A game is a place. by SheeEttin · · Score: 0

    where the player is locked onto a track and must ride through the storyline

    *cough*Metroid Fusion*cough*

  15. A couple of issues by the+Brightside · · Score: 2, Insightful
    There are a couple of issues at play here. The first to sprout here in the comments is a debate between whether stories are important or are trivial. (Generally taking the shape of "Who plays these things for the story?" vs. "Who doesn't?") I'm not sure this is really a debate that's going to come to a finite end, much like the graphics vs. gameplay debate that has been bitterly fought since, well, the beginning of games.

    The second issue, I guess, regards the purpose of the game itself. Should the game have a narrative driving it, or should it merely be a vector through which an experience is delivered to you, devoid of context or interpretation? I think the gamers that favor the latter opinion are those who enjoy feeling in control of their experiences, much like the shaky narrative framework of the Grand Theft Auto games is really only a suggestion to an otherwise decision-empowered player. Perhaps this is an offshoot of the reality of life against the conditions of the gamespace--we are rarely in command of our own destinies in the real world, with bosses, parents, the government telling us what to do; why should a game designer tempt us with an escape to a different world when we wind up with yet another telling us what to do?

    As I mentioned in a prior comment, everything we engage in has a narrative, regardless of whether we're conscious of it or not. The sandbox style of gameplay might be interesting to some, but give me the heavily narrative Planescape: Torment over GTA any day. It isn't simply a matter of playing style, either--over the weekend I ran through F.E.A.R. because of its strong narrative hooks, much like I've played and replayed Monolith's prior games, No One Lives Forever 1 and 2. (With stronger narratives than F.E.A.R., I might add.)

    Maybe we should consider this antinarrative backlash as a direct consequence of the popularity of multiplayer FPSes. How many people are still playing Halo 2 for its Halo 1.5 storyline, and how many people still play it for its commanding multiplayer? For that matter, consider Quake 3 Arena--there was the barest of storylines there, as with most any ID game these days, and yet its multiplayer capabilities made it popular. There are people who enjoy a strong singleplayer campaign, myself included, and then there are those who don't give a rat's ass about singleplayer because they just want to frag their buddies as much as possible. Any distraction from either viewpoint might be considered a detriment to either constituency (of course the dichotomy is not absolute; there are plenty of people who enjoy both equally well).

    For another factor, consider the game review sites. It's been a regular occurrence that I'll check Gamespot's ratings to see how they've examined a new game, and in the "pros" section they mention a great story, wonderful aesthetic presentation, and strong voice acting. But they decide to graft an 8.0 to an otherwise 9-worthy game with the "con" of a lack of multiplayer. That's a slightly different topic, but I wonder if the prevalence of multiplayer capability is affecting what we consider to be the purpose of games.

  16. And for game movies? by phorm · · Score: 1

    How about the movies based on games? The majority I've seen have been big, big stinkers... even when based on games with a very doable plot for a movie. Half the time the take a name and throw something completely unrelated out as a movie, or they maim and damage the original plot so badly that the pile of crapulance simples adds another steaming clod onto a pile of otherwise steaming clods of game-based movies.

    Maybe if Hollywood had a better track record of non-suckage I might agree with the reporter... but really I think there are no more videogames with crap plots than there are movies with crap plots, and there are definately more videogame-based-movies with crap plots (when the game was good).

  17. It's both by edremy · · Score: 1
    I think you're being too restrictive here: it's entirely possible to have a game where there's an involved, engaging story and a sense of place without feeling you're on rails.

    A bunch of examples I can think of

    • Morrowind
    • Planetscape Torment
    • System Shock 2
    • Deus Ex
    • Marathon

    The latter three are on rails to some extent since each level is somewhat mission oriented, but there's an evolving story in all of the above that's quite engaging. You can ignore the main plot line in Morrowind for at least 50 hours of playtime, yet the overall theme really adds to the sense of the world.

    As far as story killing game flow, unless your a pure FPS player who just wants uber frags, that's absurd. All of the above took you out of the story for *long* periods to explain what's going on. Without that (to me at least) most games seem flat. Doom? Let's see: kill a monster. Kill another. Hmm, dark corner- there's going to be an ambush. Whoopie. If that's "Game flow" you can keep it- I'll take the plot.

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    "Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
  18. Apples and oranges by joystickgenie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Comparing video game to movies and books isn't a good test honestly. They have completely different types of content.

    Video games are closer to television then they are to books or movies in term of content. Movies and books have long interwoven stories that are built on character development and plot twists for entertainment. Because video games give the player choices plot twists are more difficult to pull of without making the player feel like they have no control. Television and video game have much different paths to follow for entertainment.

    Sports broadcasts: Sports games
    Cartoons: Platformers
    Documentaries: historical games
    Reality TV: the Sims
    Dramas and thrillers: adventure games and action games
    Sci fi and fantasy shows: RPGs

    So to me the better comparison for games writing would be the writers for television shows.

    You don't watch The Kids Next Door, Ed Edd and Eddie, or Totally Spies for the plot, just like you don't play Mario, Ratchet and Clank, or Jak and Daxter for the plot either. If you're watching TV for a plot you watch shows like 24 or lost, if you are playing games for the plot you play games like the longest journey or killer 7. Just like television not all the writers are that great, but there are some good ones, and they are getting better.

    Although television is closer it is still not a perfect comparison. In television the viewer has no control and this gives e writers a lot les to worry about. A script writer never has to worry about "what if the protagonist decides not to peruse the antagonist." They know that the protagonist will do it because they say he will. In games to more choices you take away from the player the less they feel they are playing the game and more they feel they are watching the game. It's a hard balance to maintain and it is a challenge that is pretty unique to writing for games.

  19. Reminds me of another game... by BenV666 · · Score: 1

    I don't know Marathon 2, but your description reminds me of System Shock. Loved playing that game, obsessed by Shodan and figuring out what happened on that space station.

  20. nitpick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (Anyone remember Ultima 3? What keyword can I bounce off this NPC that will make them regurgitate the clue I need... I resorted to pseudo-dictionary-attacks on some of those).

    You're thinking of Ultima 4, 5, or possibly 6. In Ultima 3, you don't get to propose topics of conversation. Each person says only one thing. The only exceptions I can think of are: shopkeepers and oracles, and Lord British (who says something different if you're levelling up).

  21. Right.... by shoptroll · · Score: 1

    Like Enter the Matrix and Path of Neo had any really good writing to begin with.

    I understand what he's talking about, I just don't see where he's coming from on this though.

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    Insert Sig Here