Street fighter 3 never had a chance in America. Arcades were already dead in America when it released. The only console it was released when it was semi fresh was the dream cast after the dream cast was decided upon to be a failure. It was later rereleased on the ps2 but that was after the game was years old already. Most never even knew it existed.
Street fighter 4 sells due to nostalgia. Street fighter 4 is popular because it is the first street fighter game that many people have played since the release of Street fighter 2. They never played street fighter 3 (or the alpha series for a large part) to be able to judge it.
To me that is like saying "who needs cartoons when we have film." They are two different mediums use to produce two different kinds of products. I would much rather have a sprite representing a cartoony character than a 3d model with shading effects try and represent a cartoony character. It just looks better.
Sprites and 2d games are not dead technologies. There are things that look better in sprites then in 3d. When dealing with things that are supposed to look like a cartoon or be very stylized, sprites have an incredible edge over 3d. If you want something to look realistic, then 3d has an edge.
Of course I am only of those crazy people who think street fighter 3 is better then street fighter 4 in just about every way. including graphics.
I disagree. there is something special about games that movies don't have. Although the story is unfolding in a 3rd person fashion there is a direct connection between the main character and yourself. Games like the longest journey have a unique quality that having the player control the actions of April Ryan allows them to more fully understand and relate with the character. It add a larger feeling of ownership and makes that things that happen to the character feel more personal. because they aren't just happening to the game character in a way they are happening to you as well.
I disagree on the point of 2D reaching its limit. There have been plenty of technologies that have been developed for 3d graphics that make significant improvements for 2D games as well.
If you haven't seen it before check out the game Oden Sphere. This is one have that took 3d technologies and using then to great effect in a 2D environment. Oden shpere used polygons on a 2 dimensional plane to stretch and distort the sprites textures allowing the game to have a more dynamic motion. it then used that technology to animate everything easily having the trees in the background sway with the wind convincingly. DirectX 10's swap over to shader based rendering also gives great things to the 2D development as shaders can create amazing effects on 2d objects.
But that is only talking technology that is somewhere that 2d can yet grow into. Artistically that are things that just can not be done as well in 3d as it can in 2d. Cell shading is not a replacement for traditional cell artwork. There is a reason that paintings stayed a relevant art form after sculpting came to be because there are things that you can express better in 2 dimensions than you can in 3.
Really I think once 3D has hit its plateau 2D will have a resurgence of 2D games.
Well there is a mention in the enrollment contracts that they have the right to use your work freely. That way anything you make as a student can be used by the school for advertising.
Well you know those titles that come out as greatest hits? Those are the games the make money for the developers. Basically everything else is lucky to simply breaks even.
Console game development usually works something like this. A company gets paid an advance by a publisher to make the product. This advance is used to bank roll the company while the title is in development. This has to be done because even if the title is low budget with a small cheap staff the developer has to pay the console manufacturer's exorbitant prices for development kits and licensing. Once the title is released all of the profit from the title goes to the publisher until the advance is paid back with interest. Once the advance is paid back the the profit is split between the publisher and the developer where the developer still probably only sees maybe $1 in profit per title (that is with the current $60 price tag).
By buying used you really aren't hurting the publisher too bad, the lions share of the mony goes to them, they are the first to start making money from sales. Your not hurting the console manufacturer, they were making money off the title before it was even released.
The person you are hurting is the developer. the developer need there to be not a good launch but longevity of sales to make money. So when after a week from release there are only 1 new copy of the game and 20 used it make it pretty hard for those developers to get that longevity that they need to actually make money on the deal.
Tell me about it. This new lead designer just pisses me off more and more as I read new interviews from him.
VideoGamer.com: Why did you make the decision to remove parrying for Street Fighter IV?
YO:...Basically we used the rule book from Street Fighter II because that was the most popular.
VideoGamer.com: Some critics have said the game is too similar to Street Fighter II. That is doesn't move the series forward. What do you say to those criticisms?
YO:...ultimately we wanted to create a sequel to Street Fighter II, so if someone says this looks just like Street Fighter II with glorified graphics, then that's music to our ears!
VideoGamer.com: What were the influences behind the new character designs? C. Viper almost looks like a SNK character?
YO...But we were impressed that SNK was one step before us, they had already done it. So that's what happened.
I don't even think he likes the series. He is straight out saying that he has no intention of doing anything interesting or new with the series and plans on doing the bare minimum while in the process insulting the last, oh, 6 iterations of the game. As a long time street fighter fan I am actually very much not looking forward to this games release because i am pretty sure it is going to turn one of my favorite series into crap.
Allow me to reply with a quote from Ernest Adams "The Designer's Notebook: Where's Our Merchant Ivory?" while talking about serious games and censorship of games
"Now I know from long experience that a certain percentage of you are making derisive snorts of contempt because you personally care nothing for high culture and see no reason why anyone else would either. But even if you don't like it, you still need it. And before yet another idiot pipes up with Standard Asinine Comment #1 ("but FUN is the only thing that matters!"), let me just say: No, it's not. Shut up and grow up. Our overemphasis on fun--kiddie-style, wheeee-type fun--is part of the reason we're in this mess in the first place. To merely be fun is to be unimportant, irrelevant, and therefore vulnerable."
I have to agree with you on the gambit part. he really doesn't belong there at all. His entire personality is at odds with being on this team.
though I have no problem with deadpool being here.
I couldn't disagree more. Although the idea of the motion detection seems very promising in implementation it doesn't work out that way. Like the Tetris example. How many degrees must the remote be rotated before it triggers the piece rotating? Does the user have to realign the controller's rotation before they can rotate the piece a second time? What is the entire time that this series of motions would take to perform? Longer then it would take to press a button twice that is for sure. Then there are other problems. During these rotations your grip will be changing causing the thumb alignment on the dpad to change possibly causing errors in input.
Tell me if you have to rotate 2 times and shift the piece 4 times to the left and then once to the right quickly at the end in under half a second(on higher tetris levels is not an unreasonable requirement) what control scheme would you trust more? Rotate your wrist clockwise 45* back to center, clockwise 45*, gesture left, return to center, gesture left, return to center, gesture left, return to center, gesture left, return to center gesture right or B button B button left button left button left button left button right button, when time is a significant factor?
There was actually a perfect example of this already in games. In fight night games they added the total control feature. Instead of using buttons to throw punches the user inputs their punches with swings of the analog sticks. This allowed for more control of the punches, but there was a downside. There was also the option to turn off the total control and use a more traditional button input configuration. This created a dramatic imbalance. Where player one had to pull the analog stick back and move it in a half circle motion forward to perform a hook all player 2 had to do was press X. Players using the old style controls always ended up having an advantage in the fact that their input had a faster response time then players using the new motion style.
Don't get me wrong gesture input can be used to great affect. But in many cases buttons are defiantly superior.
"I haven't seen a game built for the entertainment industry that fills a training gap," said Col. Jack Millar, director of the service's Training and Doctrine Command's (TRADOC) Project Office for Gaming, or TPO Gaming.
As in the army agrees with us that video game do not train, training simulations do.
I hear there is work at Mc Donalds. Ok, so thats a bit far, but there is plenty of work out there that wouldn't go against what they are striking for.
If they feel strongly enough that they will strike from their job for something you would think they wouldn't want to support other industries that do the exact thing they are striking for.
Wait a minute. Am I the only one who notices the stupidity in this? The Writers Guild of America strike is about writers getting paid residuals for DVD, New media profits. So during this strike the writers are going to go into an industry where there are no residual payments of any kind for original sales, compilation sales, and new media profits? The only people who make money of of those profits are the publishers. The writes has a better deal in script writing, at least there they get residuals for the primary profits of their work (syndication)
Many people in competitive gaming would disagree with you. street fighter 3 (third strike specifically) is a very good game and shows up at many tournaments.
"And second, imagine you find out that making games isn't even a percent as much fun as playing them"
If that is the case I don't know how you could go though the years of schooling and not realize this then. I know, at Full Sail at least, I see a lot of students making this realization in the first few months. At that point you still have time to drop out and pick something else for your career without loosing all that much. Though, really you should probably be able to figure that out before even enrolling in a school.
If Full Sail still has that image I think people should re-look at Full Sail then. Full Sail has no degree called game design (any more); it has a game development degree. Full Sail's game degree was called game design in the past; though, this was a misnomer as the curriculum has always been far more focused on programming and development then design. I'm honestly not quite sure why it was ever called just game design. If full sail still has the image as a game design school, then yeah that's a flaw in the marketing.
Will Wright is the wrong person to pick. There are many people in the industry that do not find what they do to be artistic, if my memory serve me correctly I believe the Will Write is one of those people and have made statements along those lines. If you want to pick some one from the industry to represent it in a debate, I would go with Ernest W. Adams
Really, Nintendo hasn't been providing games for the hardcore crown for a while. I think that last console they did appeal to hardcore gamers was the N64.
Though Nintendo never developed these titles internally I can think of a few genres that Nintendo has been neglecting to actively seek licenses for. Sure there are plenty of platformers, party games, movie licenses and sports games but where are all the fighting games, strategy games (turn based and RT), adventure games, rpgs (both normal and jRPG variety)? They should be going out and trying to get those games on their platform.
Actually, Sony Nintendo and Microsoft have stated that they will not allow Ao games to be licensed for their consoles. So if you get an Ao rating in essence you are banned from all the major consoles.
Slashdot Mirror
I had so much fun playing Virtual On, but with the original on the Sega Saturn and the sequel on the Dream Dast the game series was destined to fail.
Correlation != Causation
Street fighter 3 never had a chance in America. Arcades were already dead in America when it released. The only console it was released when it was semi fresh was the dream cast after the dream cast was decided upon to be a failure. It was later rereleased on the ps2 but that was after the game was years old already. Most never even knew it existed.
Street fighter 4 sells due to nostalgia. Street fighter 4 is popular because it is the first street fighter game that many people have played since the release of Street fighter 2. They never played street fighter 3 (or the alpha series for a large part) to be able to judge it.
To me that is like saying "who needs cartoons when we have film." They are two different mediums use to produce two different kinds of products. I would much rather have a sprite representing a cartoony character than a 3d model with shading effects try and represent a cartoony character. It just looks better.
Sprites and 2d games are not dead technologies. There are things that look better in sprites then in 3d. When dealing with things that are supposed to look like a cartoon or be very stylized, sprites have an incredible edge over 3d. If you want something to look realistic, then 3d has an edge.
Of course I am only of those crazy people who think street fighter 3 is better then street fighter 4 in just about every way. including graphics.
I disagree. there is something special about games that movies don't have. Although the story is unfolding in a 3rd person fashion there is a direct connection between the main character and yourself. Games like the longest journey have a unique quality that having the player control the actions of April Ryan allows them to more fully understand and relate with the character. It add a larger feeling of ownership and makes that things that happen to the character feel more personal. because they aren't just happening to the game character in a way they are happening to you as well.
I disagree on the point of 2D reaching its limit. There have been plenty of technologies that have been developed for 3d graphics that make significant improvements for 2D games as well.
If you haven't seen it before check out the game Oden Sphere. This is one have that took 3d technologies and using then to great effect in a 2D environment. Oden shpere used polygons on a 2 dimensional plane to stretch and distort the sprites textures allowing the game to have a more dynamic motion. it then used that technology to animate everything easily having the trees in the background sway with the wind convincingly. DirectX 10's swap over to shader based rendering also gives great things to the 2D development as shaders can create amazing effects on 2d objects.
But that is only talking technology that is somewhere that 2d can yet grow into. Artistically that are things that just can not be done as well in 3d as it can in 2d. Cell shading is not a replacement for traditional cell artwork. There is a reason that paintings stayed a relevant art form after sculpting came to be because there are things that you can express better in 2 dimensions than you can in 3.
Really I think once 3D has hit its plateau 2D will have a resurgence of 2D games.
Well there is a mention in the enrollment contracts that they have the right to use your work freely. That way anything you make as a student can be used by the school for advertising.
Well you know those titles that come out as greatest hits? Those are the games the make money for the developers. Basically everything else is lucky to simply breaks even.
Console game development usually works something like this. A company gets paid an advance by a publisher to make the product. This advance is used to bank roll the company while the title is in development. This has to be done because even if the title is low budget with a small cheap staff the developer has to pay the console manufacturer's exorbitant prices for development kits and licensing. Once the title is released all of the profit from the title goes to the publisher until the advance is paid back with interest. Once the advance is paid back the the profit is split between the publisher and the developer where the developer still probably only sees maybe $1 in profit per title (that is with the current $60 price tag).
By buying used you really aren't hurting the publisher too bad, the lions share of the mony goes to them, they are the first to start making money from sales. Your not hurting the console manufacturer, they were making money off the title before it was even released.
The person you are hurting is the developer. the developer need there to be not a good launch but longevity of sales to make money. So when after a week from release there are only 1 new copy of the game and 20 used it make it pretty hard for those developers to get that longevity that they need to actually make money on the deal.
Tell me about it. This new lead designer just pisses me off more and more as I read new interviews from him.
VideoGamer.com: Why did you make the decision to remove parrying for Street Fighter IV?
YO: ...Basically we used the rule book from Street Fighter II because that was the most popular.
VideoGamer.com: Some critics have said the game is too similar to Street Fighter II. That is doesn't move the series forward. What do you say to those criticisms?
YO: ...ultimately we wanted to create a sequel to Street Fighter II, so if someone says this looks just like Street Fighter II with glorified graphics, then that's music to our ears!
VideoGamer.com: What were the influences behind the new character designs? C. Viper almost looks like a SNK character?
YO ...But we were impressed that SNK was one step before us, they had already done it. So that's what happened.
I don't even think he likes the series. He is straight out saying that he has no intention of doing anything interesting or new with the series and plans on doing the bare minimum while in the process insulting the last, oh, 6 iterations of the game. As a long time street fighter fan I am actually very much not looking forward to this games release because i am pretty sure it is going to turn one of my favorite series into crap.
Oh I see. Some random douche bags web video is a bastion of wisdom but a respected member of the video game industry is silly. Got it.
Allow me to reply with a quote from Ernest Adams "The Designer's Notebook: Where's Our Merchant Ivory?" while talking about serious games and censorship of games
"Now I know from long experience that a certain percentage of you are making derisive snorts of contempt because you personally care nothing for high culture and see no reason why anyone else would either. But even if you don't like it, you still need it. And before yet another idiot pipes up with Standard Asinine Comment #1 ("but FUN is the only thing that matters!"), let me just say: No, it's not. Shut up and grow up. Our overemphasis on fun--kiddie-style, wheeee-type fun--is part of the reason we're in this mess in the first place. To merely be fun is to be unimportant, irrelevant, and therefore vulnerable."
I have to agree with you on the gambit part. he really doesn't belong there at all. His entire personality is at odds with being on this team. though I have no problem with deadpool being here.
I couldn't disagree more. Although the idea of the motion detection seems very promising in implementation it doesn't work out that way. Like the Tetris example. How many degrees must the remote be rotated before it triggers the piece rotating? Does the user have to realign the controller's rotation before they can rotate the piece a second time? What is the entire time that this series of motions would take to perform? Longer then it would take to press a button twice that is for sure. Then there are other problems. During these rotations your grip will be changing causing the thumb alignment on the dpad to change possibly causing errors in input.
Tell me if you have to rotate 2 times and shift the piece 4 times to the left and then once to the right quickly at the end in under half a second(on higher tetris levels is not an unreasonable requirement) what control scheme would you trust more? Rotate your wrist clockwise 45* back to center, clockwise 45*, gesture left, return to center, gesture left, return to center, gesture left, return to center, gesture left, return to center gesture right or B button B button left button left button left button left button right button, when time is a significant factor?
There was actually a perfect example of this already in games. In fight night games they added the total control feature. Instead of using buttons to throw punches the user inputs their punches with swings of the analog sticks. This allowed for more control of the punches, but there was a downside. There was also the option to turn off the total control and use a more traditional button input configuration. This created a dramatic imbalance. Where player one had to pull the analog stick back and move it in a half circle motion forward to perform a hook all player 2 had to do was press X. Players using the old style controls always ended up having an advantage in the fact that their input had a faster response time then players using the new motion style.
Don't get me wrong gesture input can be used to great affect. But in many cases buttons are defiantly superior.
Perhaps you missed this quote
"I haven't seen a game built for the entertainment industry that fills a training gap," said Col. Jack Millar, director of the service's Training and Doctrine Command's (TRADOC) Project Office for Gaming, or TPO Gaming.
As in the army agrees with us that video game do not train, training simulations do.
I hear there is work at Mc Donalds. Ok, so thats a bit far, but there is plenty of work out there that wouldn't go against what they are striking for. If they feel strongly enough that they will strike from their job for something you would think they wouldn't want to support other industries that do the exact thing they are striking for.
Wait a minute. Am I the only one who notices the stupidity in this? The Writers Guild of America strike is about writers getting paid residuals for DVD, New media profits. So during this strike the writers are going to go into an industry where there are no residual payments of any kind for original sales, compilation sales, and new media profits? The only people who make money of of those profits are the publishers. The writes has a better deal in script writing, at least there they get residuals for the primary profits of their work (syndication)
Perhaps you missed the word open. Xbox is hardly a open platform.
Many people in competitive gaming would disagree with you. street fighter 3 (third strike specifically) is a very good game and shows up at many tournaments.
"And second, imagine you find out that making games isn't even a percent as much fun as playing them"
If that is the case I don't know how you could go though the years of schooling and not realize this then. I know, at Full Sail at least, I see a lot of students making this realization in the first few months. At that point you still have time to drop out and pick something else for your career without loosing all that much. Though, really you should probably be able to figure that out before even enrolling in a school.
If Full Sail still has that image I think people should re-look at Full Sail then. Full Sail has no degree called game design (any more); it has a game development degree. Full Sail's game degree was called game design in the past; though, this was a misnomer as the curriculum has always been far more focused on programming and development then design. I'm honestly not quite sure why it was ever called just game design. If full sail still has the image as a game design school, then yeah that's a flaw in the marketing.
Will Wright is the wrong person to pick. There are many people in the industry that do not find what they do to be artistic, if my memory serve me correctly I believe the Will Write is one of those people and have made statements along those lines. If you want to pick some one from the industry to represent it in a debate, I would go with Ernest W. Adams
Really, Nintendo hasn't been providing games for the hardcore crown for a while. I think that last console they did appeal to hardcore gamers was the N64.
Though Nintendo never developed these titles internally I can think of a few genres that Nintendo has been neglecting to actively seek licenses for. Sure there are plenty of platformers, party games, movie licenses and sports games but where are all the fighting games, strategy games (turn based and RT), adventure games, rpgs (both normal and jRPG variety)? They should be going out and trying to get those games on their platform.
I guess you never heard of the problems that book publishers gave libraries when copy machines were first installed.
They do make appearances but only as side stories. Nothing that is integral to the plot.
Actually, Sony Nintendo and Microsoft have stated that they will not allow Ao games to be licensed for their consoles. So if you get an Ao rating in essence you are banned from all the major consoles.
why should the average user need the specialized products of the advanced user?