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PS3 Developer Fired For Comments

Posted by Zonk on from the unfortunate dept.

Next Generation reports on the unfortunate fallout from one PS3 developer's unflattering comments. Early in January, a developer made comments on his feelings regarding the Xbox 360 and its power/design ease vs. the PS3. Thanks to widespread internet reaction, he has been fired from his development position. From the article: "I can't believe how out of control everything got ... It's absolutely absurd how the Internet can take something relatively harmless and turn it into something so insane... Did I knowingly break NDA? I absolutely did not. I would never do that and I would never want to hurt Sony Online. Did I dance in the grey area by even opening my mouth? Yes I did and I was fired for it. So I guess the new rule for me is, don't ever say anything at all about anything. Ever...ever."

33 of 131 comments (clear)

  1. "I work for for "Big Company USA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...and I think our product is a pain to use"

    Just what the hell was he expecting would happen? They'd give him a reward for breaking ranks and giving his subjective views about Sony's PS3?

    Good luck finding a new job Asshat.

    1. Re:"I work for for "Big Company USA... by XenoRyet · · Score: 4, Insightful
      He very clearly stated that he does not like, and is not committed to his (formerly) current project. He also clearly stated that he dislikes the platform he's working on, as well as stating that he thinks the competitor's platform is better.

      I would have let this guy go even for stating these opinions privatly. He obviously really does not want to work for Sony. This guy didn't get fired, he quit.

      --
      If forums teach us anything, it is that logic and critical thinking should be required courses in the public schools.
    2. Re:"I work for for "Big Company USA... by Michalson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In many ways it seems like Sony is becoming the new Microsoft, just as Microsoft replaced IBM as the Big Bad. With the shift in software distribution (internet making it easy to distribute and collaborate on free and open software like Linux) Microsoft's role of "evil" has become nearly moot, much like IBM's hold fell with open commodity architecture.

      At the same time, a new issue has emerged, digital rights, an arena where Sony (a giant corporation representing the MPAA *and* RIAA) is the devil figure (rootkit CDs, locked out storage formats, and the upcoming Blu-ray ultra restrictive DRM).

      Much as IBM, for it's own financial convience, became a "good guy" by supporting Linux and open source, Microsoft may make a similar transformation: They split with Sony over Blu-ray because they demanded that the next DVD format allow consumers to use media they had purchased the way they wanted to (i.e. store on a Microsoft powered media center). Microsoft's position of having no interest in content (Sony) or hardware (Apple) makes it to their financial benefit to demand both sides provide a positive experience for consumers (since Microsoft will have Windows something running in the middle).

      Even Microsoft's own DRM lends to this: It isn't tied to a single music store or mp3 player, and it isn't fixed in what it controls - companies protecting content can choose how restrictive it should be, resulting in open competition for consumers without fractured standards - if consumers don't like the restrictions placed on them by music store A, they can just go to music store B and get the same music, that will play on the same mp3 player, but with less restrictions. Instead of consumers being held hostage to a set of DRM demands, it's the content sellers that have to compete for the sweet spot between protecting the content and giving the user fare use of what they've purchased.

    3. Re:"I work for for "Big Company USA... by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ever hear of naïveté?

      Chalk this up to a lesson learned the hard way.

      On the other hand, this doesn't leave Sony management covered in glory either.

      First, they called a huge amount of attention to a somewhat amateurish screed that would have fallen into the bitbucket otherwise. In this sense the develper was right. They'd be better off if they publicly laughed it off and said, "We're our own toughest critics. Our platform is the best one there is, and we're not standing still."

      I think a more sutble point is that it takes all kinds of people, and the kind of people who are good or even great developers don't necessarily hatch out of the egg understanding business. By all means punish -- the burnt hand is the best teacher. But if you go too far making an example of somebody, you may foster a culture in which bad news only travels underground.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    4. Re:"I work for for "Big Company USA... by puppetluva · · Score: 2, Informative

      don't count on it. Microsoft doesn't have a history of contributing to the community and I wouldn't hold your breath. . .

      Much as IBM, for it's own financial convience, became a "good guy" by supporting Linux and open source, Microsoft may make a similar transformation: They split with Sony over Blu-ray because they demanded that the next DVD format allow consumers to use media they had purchased the way they wanted to (i.e. store on a Microsoft powered media center).

      That's weird. . . I thought they split with Blu-ray because Blu-ray uses Java. . . which they compete with (and their customers want. . . but they tried to pollute and the refused to bundle it according contracts they had signed.)

      BTW: You are the first person I've heard of to congratulate a DRM vendor on their openness.

  2. does the word OOOPPPSSS come to mind? by THEUBERGEEK · · Score: 3, Insightful

    in any corporate environment we must all learn to keep our mouths shut. i have lost more than one job for having the "wrong opinion, political view, etc".

    --
    Talking to Geeks is like eating jello with a chainsaw, interesting, but painful.
    1. Re:does the word OOOPPPSSS come to mind? by sirwired · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This guy didn't lose his job for having the wrong opinion... he lost his job for being public about it. If I was his employer, I'd fire his ass too. You don't dis the products of your employer in public if you want to stay employed. Certainly if there was some safety issue going on, or outright fraud, then there is nothing wrong with whislteblowing. Most employers won't even fire an employee for complaining about something like working conditions or benefits in a public forum. That isn't the case here. He publicly stated he thought his employer's product was smoke and mirrors. He shouldn't have been surprised that Sony wasn't too happy about it.

      I work for a LARGE computer company, and I do post to Slashdot about my company's products if questions do arise. While I never make up good things that aren't true about our products, I do adhere to the maxim "if you can't say anything nice, shut the heck up."

      SirWired

  3. Who didn't see that coming? by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Informative

    I mean, seriously, the biggest surprise is that it has taken so long.

    --
    Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  4. Welcome to the Real World by RobertB-DC · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So I guess the new rule for me is, don't ever say anything at all about anything. Ever...ever.

    Seriously, welcome to the Real World. In college, perhaps, you were encouraged to speak your mind and be free like a little birdie. Big difference: you *paid* to go to college. Within limits, you could do what you want. Things are different when you're the one receiving the money. Within limits, you have to do what *they* want.

    Or to misapply the meme: In college, you owned a Sony. In Corporate [America|Japan], SONY own YOU!

    --
    Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
    1. Re:Welcome to the Real World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is true, but it also depends on the envirnment. In Corporate America, yea. Shut up, put your head down and get to work. In the Small Business Market, this is a different story.

      I started working for a startup WISP, and was on the front-lines designing, engineering, building, and installing the network. Being in that position, I knew a HELL of LOT MORE than the owner about what was and wasn't going to work. It also helped that my co-worker saw eye to eye on the wireless network implementation, but the point needed to be made that Management DIDN'T know what was best. We made this terribly aware to them as often as possible, with suprisingly little repurcusions, looking back on it now.

      Point is, it depends on the environment. And in this guys case, the environment was big. You take a household namebrand like Sony, who is highly visible (on all fronts as of late; see rootkit), and throw out an opinion for all to read out of the NET expecting no repurcussion? Its almost laughable ...

      If he really felt such a need to express these opinions, why didn't he express them to his superiors, and those up the ladder? Or is this public expression supposed to lead us to precisely ask this question?

  5. He's surprised about this? by qbwiz · · Score: 4, Funny

    Who would have expected that an employee of a company who goes out of his way to publicly badmouth his company's products would be fired? I was expecting Sony to give him a bonus for all the extra sales he's going to bring in.

    --
    Ewige Blumenkraft.
  6. I'm guessing this is what got him fired by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Now in my opinion it doesn't matter how good the PS3 is. If the XBOX 360 is better, then it doesn't really matter how the cell processors work or how good they say it is. Realistically one of them will be better over all. Now I've spoken with people who are on the technical side of the PS3. I've also talked with people on the technical side of the XBOX 360. The consistent comment I am hearing from people on my end is, "The XBOX 360 is better". They are saying that it is capable of just doing more. (shrugs) Now take that for what its worth. If you watch all the videos on the PS3 they will say how much more powerful it is than the XBOX and vice versa. Im just telling you what I am hearing. They proceeded to go into a lot of technical info that I don't understand. So I just nod.
    Then he hits us with this firing worthy blurb
    The game that we are creating for a launch title is a "just get it out" title in my opinion. It doesn't look next generation. I don't see how anyone could debate otherwise. It looks good. But it looks good for a game that has come out in the last couple years or so. I mean we are talking about a box that will be with us for the next 5+ years! In 5 years will the games we are making today look good? The only way for that to be possible is if the new games coming out for the PS3 are drastically improved. So good that they can stand the test of time until the next system comes out. We've all seen Gears of War for the xbox 360. If that even looks half as good when it comes out then I'll be floored! The game we are making isn't even in the same league as Gears of War. In fact there are many current games out that look just as good and are using the exact same specs. So, on our end we are either not pushing the bar or were just trying to "get a title out". To be fair, this is a business. Sometimes you have to treat it as a business and not make the best title you can.
    He's trashing the game he's working on. What boss would put up with that?
    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:I'm guessing this is what got him fired by LimpGuppy · · Score: 2, Informative

      If that bozo couldn't guess that what he said violated an NDA then he's a 'tard that deserves to be fired. I mean, that's just basic common sense there.

    2. Re:I'm guessing this is what got him fired by aeoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When you look at your companies products, you have to realise: It is not your job to praise them or to damn them (in public), that is what you have marketing people for. They can take anything, and talk it up to be the best invention since sliced bread. Your competitor's marketing people can do the same thing.

      That's like saying that it's not the job of the parents to damn or praise their own kids, because the neighbors can do the same thing.

      It's much better to not only allow, but rather, to encourage internal criticism. If the person feels like the internal managers and upper managers are humble and open-minded, and constantly and kindly solicit criticism, then the person will feel quite happy and fulfilled to spill their guts in private to an internal person that matters -- to a person that has the decision power to turn the product for the better.

      The reason people spill their guts in public, is for one of two reasons:

      1. Internally no one wants to listen to them.

      2. The management says they are open, but don't act open and do not solicit criticism humbly and vigorously enough. In other words, not only must they be open in reality, but they must also convey that impression to others convincingly, sincerely.

    3. Re:I'm guessing this is what got him fired by aeoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Agreed. My theory is that people don't just go and willy nilly post stuff on their blogs like that. My guess is that the person felt like no one cared and no one wanted to listen, and consequently wanted to blow off some steam.

      Maybe just some internal listening and acknowledging would have kept this kind of opinion from hitting the web.

      I think, generally, while people are selfish and greedy, they are not malicious. So when something happens that appears malicious, it's most likely because something else has triggered it.

      I understand what the NDA "should" do, but it's a really dumb person who actually relies on "should"s. A wise person would rather rely on a thorough understanding of human condition and reality (how things ARE, as opposed to how we would like them to be, or how they "should" be).

      When stuff like that happens, it's very easy to point finger and lay blame, but it's hard to see the truth: there is no one single cause that can be blamed. Any number of things might have prevented this kind of situation from arising: more discipline on the part of the blogger, more openness on the part of employers, etc. As I see it, the employer is just as responsible for what happened as anyone. They probably allowed a bad vibe to roam in the low ranks, due to upper management detaching themselves too much from the reality of the low ranks where all the real stuff actually happens. In my experience, upper management often has their head in the clouds (to put it mildly) and is way out of touch with what's going on. For example, IIRC, in Microsoft senior execs lied to Gates about the real situation with certain products and Gates only found out thru a wistle-blower email from the lower ranks. This happens all the time.

      People at the top are prone to delusions of grandure and often over-value themselves while people at the bottom often undervalue themselves. This results in people at the bottom shaking in their boots as the people at the top yell at them and apply strong psychological force (using tyrany instead of true leadership, relying mostly on fear rather than respect and inspiration). People at the bottom will then say "all is fine boss", when it's really not. The Boss being delusional, quickly believes it, because that's what he wanted to hear anyway. Then the low ranking employees gather in various areas and stew and stew... And then one of them blows up on the blog.

      The NDA is a really shitty way to deal with this phenomenon.

  7. Here's a link to his blog by giblfiz · · Score: 5, Informative

    Though as it points out in the article, he took the post that got him fired down, and will never be putting it back up.

    To avoid /.ing him harder (he has allready been dugg) I'm going to link to a google cache ...

    http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:jgeFRxdfvuIJ: weblogs.asp.net/josh.robinson/+josh+robinson&hl=en &lr=&strip=1

  8. Great Rule by ImaLamer · · Score: 3, Funny

    So I guess the new rule for me is, don't ever say anything at all about anything. Ever...ever.

    I found this rule to work best at home and at work. The less you talk, the less trouble you get yourself into.

    --
    Get your Unix fortune now!
  9. Tough issue, this... by ursabear · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here in North Carolina, we work in a "work at will" state. This means that you can quit or be fired without ANY reason, other than reasons covered by discrimination precedence.

    It is a tragedy to lose one's job, no doubt. I would wish joblessness on no-one. However, one must always converse about one's product in a very careful way - always think of oneself as a public representative of the company. It is generally best to preserve the interests of one's company. Comments made on the internet are nearly intractable, and will generally find their way to unexpected places.

    --
    A Passionate Independent Musician
    1. Re:Tough issue, this... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      It is a tragedy to lose one's job, no doubt.

      Not in this case. I think the correct word for costing your company more money and good will then you're worth, resulting in a firing, is "example".

      Losing your job because your office building burned down and your employer doesn't want to rebuild is tragic. Losing your job because you don't have the common sense God gives a dog is just plain stupid and not really something worth pitying.

      What's worse is that he doesn't sound like he learned a single thing from the episode.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  10. Yah, I read his post, and... by Concern · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've worked in the industry. Yeah, you would definitely get fired for that. No question.

    There isn't really that much of a "gray area." They give you an NDA that basically just says "SHUT THE FUCK UP." And usually when they give it to you, they narrate that bit for you too. You really aren't supposed to talk about anything to do with the job, ever, ever.

    There are few things in the business more secrecy intensive than a platform launch like this.

    The guy is a big idiot for thinking he could write this and keep his job, without doing a damn good job of remaining anonymous. For that matter, he's just kind of uninformed; this is a 3D artist who obviously doesn't understand much about the hardware or the engines or the development cycle of either, in general....

    OK, you got your 15 seconds of fame. Bye.

    --
    Tired of Political Trolls? Opt Out!
    1. Re:Yah, I read his post, and... by Concern · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Heh. The guy is funny. But notice, I said "this is a 3D artist who obviously doesn't understand...

      In other words, I don't think all 3D artists would be unqualified to comment, as this question seems to imply. Just this particular 3D artist. It's more likely you'd get some more informed commentary from a developer or a hardware engineer, and the fact that he's not already should color your expectations a little from the outset, but... let me put it this way:

      I've worked with a lot of 3D artists, and it's a tough goddamn job, a really unique blend of skills go into doing it well... some of these guys were totally capable of doing software development, understood most of it already just from being around it, but just enjoyed making art more. Hey, perhaps I would too, if I had their skill...

      For that matter I've known a lot of artists even outside 3D who also brought really strong engineering aptitude but just didn't enjoy doing that part of the job. Understanding both sides made them invaluable to work with.

      --
      Tired of Political Trolls? Opt Out!
  11. He does'nt seem to upset about it. by giblfiz · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Here's an interview with him about the whole thing:
    http://www.ps3week.com/blogs/ps3week.php?title=tit le_6&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1


    So I'm very fortunate to have all the opportunities I've had. I had four or five job offers the same week I was let go. Ultimately I'll be making even more money, I'll have a better title at the end of my name and I'll be very near the beach. So it's a bit hard to complain I suppose.


    And yes, I'm karmawhoring.
  12. If I were him by WormholeFiend · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'd try to land a dual career at Apple and Thinksecret

    seems right up his alley

  13. Don't say anything, ever? by Threni · · Score: 5, Funny

    Not really. Just assume that what you type, wearing your pyjamas in your bedroom at 2:16 am after you've smoked a spliff and drunk some whisky is going straight to your boss/parents/partner.

  14. what's with the "dumb person got fired" news?? by corbettw · · Score: 4, Funny

    First that law student who was shocked, shocked!, that an IP firm would not want a lawyer on staff who is against IP (and who advocates breaking the law when you don't agree with it). Now we have a developer who's flabbergasted, flabbergasted!, that an employer would fire an employee for publicly dissing its product.

    Next up: a real estate agent is amazed, amazed!, when he loses a client after telling potential buyers "This is house is OK, but I wouldn't want to live here."

    --
    God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
  15. The subconscious mind. by Song+for+the+Deaf · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This has happened to me several times...where I've deleted a relationship, business or otherwise, by being brutally honest about it. The truth is that I always, deep down, wanted the relationship/job to end because I couldn't stand my internal bullshit meter going off every three seconds. Of course the opposite is also true, anything I truly want to be a part of will be afforded all maner of clemency.

    Maybe this guy just knew that coming up with games for this thing was going to be an ordeal and his subconscious pre-empted him.

    Then again, maybe this guy got fired because he is simply a classic dumbass.

    Either way, you're now free to go make those soon-to-be-classic-Xbox-360-games now, former Sony developer guy.

    1. Re:The subconscious mind. by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 4, Funny
      This has happened to me several times...where I've deleted a relationship...

      Are you talking about people or databases?

      ;-)

      --
      Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
  16. that was the very last thing I will say...ever by z0idberg · · Score: 3, Funny

    no..wait...that was the last thing I will ever say.

    no..wait..that was.

    dammit.

    I will never, ever say anything about anything ever. starting from.....now

  17. Re:ZOMG FIRST by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wow. I wonder if Google will hire him.

    Obviously you didn't hear about the former Microsoft manager who accidently let a little too much info slip on his blog.

    Google is the LAST place that would hire this guy. The reason why we never know what they're doing is because Google employees don't talk about Google. Period.

    --
    Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
  18. I take a different lesson from this by aminorex · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Specifically, don't *ever* work for Sony.

    --
    -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
  19. loyalty and lack of judgement by moochfish · · Score: 2, Insightful

    the guy was fired for: a) showing a horrible lack of judgement in deciding to post all that in a public location b) disloyalty toward not only his NDA, but his company's product. his comments are hardly flattering toward something his own team is developing. Work as a pastry chef assistant and go tell potential customers about how much the pastries there suck. work as an editor and write a piece about how bad your paper's reporters are. this isn't news. you'd be fired for this in any other mass-market industry.

  20. interview with a vampire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Should he have kept his mouth shut? Yes.

    Is he right about the lack of quality in games coming out for the PS3 compared to the Xbox 360? Yes.

    Should his bosses have listened to him and attempted to improve the quality of the product they were working on? Yes.

    Did they listen to him? No.

    Are the games still going to be shit? Yes.

    Did they fire him cause he revealed their incompetance? Yes.

    Did he deserve it? Yup.

    Do his managers deserve to be fired for hiring people who are producing crap and are going to ruin Sony's image and sales? Yea.

    Are they going to be? Nope.

    Is this fair? More or less that's the way it is.

    Was I going to buy a PS3 before I read this article? No, never had plans to.

    Has reading his opinion make any difference for me? Nope, just confirms what I already understood.

    Am I buying a 360? Not anytime soon, I've been dumping money into upgrading my computer.

    If I had to buy a console, which would I buy? 360.

    Does anyone on slashdot give a shit about my self-interview here? No.

    Am I that guy? No.

    Why are you anonymous then? Cause I'm lazy.

    Are you going to stop this? Yes, now.

  21. Re:what's the problem by st1d · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe it's just me, but that's the kind of threat my friend's 4 year old son might make. I can't help but agree with you, and to be honest, I wonder if his supposed wonderful new job is actually that great, because if his situation is truly improved, why is he still complaining?

    --
    Microsoft has just released their much anticipated hands-free cordless mouse. Warning, it may hurt a little at first.