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Libraries Say DRM May Harm Their Services

Ernest Adams writes "The BBC is reporting that the British Library is concerned about DRM's effect on its ability to make materials available to the public. Libraries have a legal right to distribute materials under the Fair Use provisions of the copyright law, but DRM systems may block this. Furthermore, they point out that DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright. DRM systems may allow copyright holders to retain control over their material longer than they are legally entitled to. Worse yet, if the software no longer exists to unlock a DRM-protected file, its contents may be lost forever -- exactly the thing libraries are intended to prevent." We've discussed stories like this before.

51 of 214 comments (clear)

  1. Well, duh by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 4, Funny

    Libraries have a legal right to distribute materials under the Fair Use provisions of the copyright law, but DRM systems may block this.... DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright.

    Article summary provided by the Department of Obviousness Department

    1. Re:Well, duh by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Reaction to the article provided by the "Public outrage that should happen, but doesn't" Department.

      --
      It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
      Be yourself no matter what they say
    2. Re:Well, duh by mikeplokta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not obvious at all. DRM systems don't turn themselves off upon copyright expiry, but they could do so. They could be legally required to do so, and it could be illegal to use any DRM system that continued to prevent copying beyond the copyright expiry date, if our legislatures weren't in the pockets of the big media companies.

    3. Re:Well, duh by Alex+P+Keaton+in+da · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Gosh- I would never do it, because I don't get to the library as much as I would like...
      But my library has a very extensive CD collection, including a lot of expensive boxed sets that are available for 2 week checkout. They also have a lot of new and mainstream stuff. (When I was younger, the library in my town had a lot of Bob Denver and classical music that I wasn't interested in at the time)
      If someone wanted to load up their iPod or iTunes or whatever with thousands of songs, the library would be a good place to utilize.
      I wonder how long before the RIAA sues libraries to see who is checking out a lot of music... Or how long before they demand that all media available at libraries is heavily DRM-ed.
      Reminds me of Shawshenk Redemption, when Andy says that the songs are in his head, and they can never take them away...

      --
      And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
    4. Re:Well, duh by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How? That might be worse than the DRM itself.

      You could have the MP3 package check the system time every time you try to play it, and if the year is 20XX + 95, it allows playback. But, as anyone who's played Rise of the Triads knows, it takes only a simple DOS command to make I.P. Freely and the others play with santa hats on.

      Of course, if the content providers decided to go through with this, they would insist on having each file "phone home" to an unimpeachable server to check on an official time before authorizing the unlock. But don't worry, I'm sure a backround process logging each and every DRM'd file you've opened on your PC won't end up being sold to recoup the costs of the system.

    5. Re:Well, duh by mrogers · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It doesn't have to be done in a privacy-invading manner (although I agree that it probably would be). For example, the DRM chip on the motherboard could contain its own clock, with clock skew being corrected on a weekly basis using signed updates from a network of time servers. You can also get a time signal anonymously from GPS, and there's a land-based radio time signal in the UK.

    6. Re:Well, duh by bigpat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They could be legally required to do so, and it could be illegal to use any DRM system that continued to prevent copying beyond the copyright expiry date, if our legislatures weren't in the pockets of the big media companies.

      And it could be made illegal to use DRM at all, as I believe it should. If you want legal Copyright protection then your content should be copyable, otherwise it is like asking for a patent but keeping how your invention works a secret. Unrestrained DRM sacrifices our legitamite right to copy other peoples work.

    7. Re:Well, duh by mrogers · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe you should ask the members of the Trusted Computing Group.

    8. Re:Well, duh by bigpat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just wrote my congressman:

      Mr. Tierney,

      The battle over intellectual property laws has brought to light many issues of inequality in our society. Big corporate entities account for vast swaths of ownership of intellectual property, creating a dynamic of ever increasing inequality of information, where the interests of the individual are put at an inferior position to the interests of the corporation.

      One thing that could be done to stop the spread of this inequality is to pass a law prohibiting the use of DRM (Digital Rights Management) technology on works that receive legal copyright protection. Analogously this is already the case with patent law which requires a patent seeker to disclose full information about the method or device they wish to patent. Otherwise it is considered a trade secret where the people retain their legal right to reverse engineer the method or device. Likewise by making the method of copying a secret by means of DRM, content producers erect a barrier to fair use of the content. With DRM, Libraries are prevented from archiving published works in an easily reproducible form, threatening the loss of an entire generation's productive work to the ravages of time. And DRM prevents individuals from copying the content which is their right after the expiration of the copyright under law. By preventing these and other fair uses under copyright law, DRM has broken the bargain that copyright laws have traditionally struck.

      Digital technology certainly allows much more than was ever foreseen by preceding generations. But the principle of copyright remains one of give and take; society gives content creators the protection of our laws for a period of time, and after that period of time has ellapsed the content creators then have given their work to society for its perpetual use, or forever long we see value in its reproduction. With DRM content creators are attempting to have their cake and eat it too.

      By preventing legitimate copying, use of DRM should forfeit a content producer's right to legally prevent others from copying. If content is protected by technology, then it should receive no benefit of protection by laws.

      Therefore, certain provisions of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act should be repealed and new legislation should make it clear that if you use DRM, then you do not have a copyright.

      Thank You,

    9. Re:Well, duh by bigpat · · Score: 2, Informative

      Please use the content of my message freely.

      Though I suggest you paraphrase if you or anyone else chooses to contact your representative yourself. They tend not to appreciate form letters.

  2. Obligatory UK note by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Informative

    We don't have "fair use" in UK copyright law, at least not in the sense it's usually used around here to refer to the exemptions in the US.

    However, a small number of national reference libraries in the UK, including the British Library, have a special legal right to claim a free copy of works published in the UK.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:Obligatory UK note by Gumshoe · · Score: 2, Informative

      In English Law it's called "Fair Dealing" and unless I'm misunderstanding something it's "Fair Use" in all but name.

      Sections 28-76 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 lists the exceptions to infringing acts laid out in section 16. In a nutshell, copyright is not infringed in instances of using the work for research, private study, for criticism, for review or for news reporting. There are also exceptions for educational and library use.

      Also, there are some exceptions relating to computer programs laid out in Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations 1992. The most important exceptions allow for decompilation and the making of backup copies.

      Do the "Fair Use" provisions in US law differ significantly?

    2. Re:Obligatory UK note by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Informative

      We do actually, as codified in the 2005 amendment to the 1988 Copyright, Designs and Patents Act, section Part 1, Chapter 3, Section 29 "Research and private study."

      The same act, Part 5, Chapter 48, section 296ZE "Remedy where effective technological measures prevent permitted acts", allows action to be taken where DRM blocks acts permitted under law.

    3. Re:Obligatory UK note by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Informative

      The US fair use and UK fair dealing provisions are broadly similar, but the US version is rather more generous in what it (theoretically, in light of subsequent legislation) allows. However, the way national reference libraries are supported, which is what we're talking about here, is covered by its own little bit of law in the UK, not under the general fair whatever exemptions that anyone can use. (IIRC, in the US the Library of Congress has similar rights, but you'd have to ask someone better informed about the details.)

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  3. Good points by MustardMan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The librarians are making some good points about further flaws in DRM. I'm glad to see the media finally starting to pick up on this and report stories about the dark side of DRM. Now if we could only get more mentions of it on THIS side of the pond, maybe people other than the technically adept will start to get pissed about DRM and force some change.

    OK, not likely, but a guy can dream, can't he?

    1. Re:Good points by Billosaur · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "We have grave concerns about the potential use of DRMs by rightholders to override existing copyright exceptions," its statement said.

      In the long term, the restrictions would not expire when a work went out of copyright, it said, and it may be impossible to trace the rights holders by that time.

      "It is probable that no key would still exist to unlock the DRMs," Laca said. "For libraries this is serious.

      So copyright law be damned. Slap some DRM on your work and it's yours for perpetuity, even after the copyright expires, simply by "losing" the key. Convenient.

      --
      GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
  4. About the British Library... by meringuoid · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... they're a lot more influential than people realise. They do run their own special forces unit, which for no adequately explored reason conducts all its business in Japanese...

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  5. And the hackers save us? by faloi · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Worse yet, if the software no longer exists to unlock a DRM-protected file, its contents may be lost forever -- exactly the thing libraries are intended to prevent.

    I would think that's where the people that enjoy breaking DRM protection comes into play. It would be nice to get a government sanction to break into content for the fun of it. Or at least I'm assuming it'd be nice for people that can actually do it :)

    --
    "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
  6. Of course... by jawtheshark · · Score: 4, Insightful
    They are right, but nowhere copyright says that using the material under "Fair use" should be easy. I dislike DRM as the next slashdotter, but the only way not to support DRM is to vote with your money: don't buy the stuff. Of course that is going to be hard, after all we all love our Playstation games, our LoTR DVD's and our (now always crippled) music CDs. Not to mention we all love iTunes because of the convenience.

    On top of that, non-slashdotters don't know and even care less than we.

    Finally: even if everybody would boycott DRM enabled media, the distributors will blame piracy. It's a lose-lose situation in all cases.

    --
    Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    1. Re:Of course... by meringuoid · · Score: 3, Insightful
      They are right, but nowhere copyright says that using the material under "Fair use" should be easy.

      As a defence of DRM, that would be fine... if the content cartels hadn't managed to get a law passed that makes the exercise of fair use not only difficult, but illegal.

      If the content providers want to wrap their products in DRM, that's their own business. But if they do, then the law should side with the citizens exercising their fair use rights: such things as modchips, libdvdcss, or hacked ebook readers should be explicitly protected by law, rather than being banned as they are at present.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    2. Re:Of course... by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They are right, but nowhere copyright says that using the material under "Fair use" should be easy

      What?

      It's a right, specified in law. There aren't "levels" here, it's either a true or false value.

      So, it's okay if Free Speech isn't easy, right?

    3. Re:Of course... by yar · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sadly, it's not a right. The law only says that fair use is not an infringement of copyright. If it was a right, then the anti-circumvention measures in the DMCA would have been much harder to pass. If a librarian circumvents DRM, even for a use that is determined fair, they are very likely liable for the act.
      (Not a librarian, but have an MLIS and have been advised by legal counsel.)

  7. Libraries and Librarians by Raleel · · Score: 5, Interesting

    See, here's where we, the nerds and IT folk, need to work with the librarians and support them.

    I had the priveledge of speaking with a librarian on a plane ride one time. While not particularly tech saavy, she was quite passionate about information freedom and privacy. It hadn't even occurred to me until that point that the librarians had been working for what so many of us had believed in for a long time. They were the Googles before we had Google.

    --
    -- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --
    1. Re:Libraries and Librarians by yar · · Score: 4, Informative

      A clue?

      I'm not a librarian, but my mother was, and I have an MLIS myself. The average librarian has likely thought more about information than most people have, and in a more formalized manner. Librarians are concerned with information as a disclipline in and of itself in ways that no other profession is, and longer than any other profession. Most librarians have a Masters degree in which they learn about information- how people use and access information, how information can be organized, presented, and so on. So they certainly know how to evaluate resources and can tell the difference between a Tom Clancy novel and an encyclopedia entry. They're also concerned with issues involving authority, authenticity, integrity, and other information-related problems. Public librarianship, in particular (note that not all librarians are public or academic librarians) have a strong history of protecting intellectual freedom. Don't assume that just because something is entertainment that there are no intellectual freedom issues. If someone is denying access to information, you need to look at why first.

    2. Re:Libraries and Librarians by yar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I got my degree at the University of Texas at Austin. At the time, I received an MLIS from the Graduate School of Library and Information Science. Since then, the name of the degree has changed (Master of Science in Information Studies) and the name of the school has changed (School of Information). The change wasn't intended to be a slight on libraries, but an acknowledgement that graduates of the school were doing many varied things- libraries, archives, conservation, preservation, information architecture, usability, records management, databases, programming, knowledge management, video editing, etc.

    3. Re:Libraries and Librarians by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem with that, of course, is that something that can be "digitized and easily disseminated" is effectively free to distribute -- once it exists. For a long time, distribution was hard, and only a select group was willing to put the effort into doing it. Over an extended period of time, that particular method of distribution became the only way of doing business, and authors/artists/inventors got into some really bad habits in regards to their business methods. In particular, they started to assume that they could control the price of the end product (a physical copy of a book, for example) to make up for the work that they were effectively doing at a loss (actually writing the book). That worked (for the most part) as long as publication was limited to "insiders" who stood to benefit from the system, but now that anyone can be a distributor that system is breaking down.

      Those who possess the ability to create valuable "content" have nothing to worry about, really. After all, they're not the ones facing this new competition; we have yet to learn how to create unique content without them. As long as that remains true, authors, artists, and inventors will continue to profit from their work. The methods by which they are paid will certainly change, but only the distributors are facing extinction.

      As for the methods themselves, there are numerous workable proposals. My personal favorite is the collective-patronage system, which differs from traditional patronage only in that an organization or group replaces the individual patron. The organization would probably set the scope of the content -- the general topic, audience, medium, etc. -- and then hire promising authors, artists, and/or inventors willing to work within those limits. Some groups would, of course, be more free-form than others, but ultimately the parameters of the group would be dictated by its paying members. Members would have numerous advantages over non-members, including contact with the patronees, first-run editions of the resulting works, shareholder rights in the group's decisions, discounted merchandise, etc. The membership fees would fund the production of new stories, movies, and/or inventions. Nearly all of the income would go directly to the artists, and the system would be self-sustaining without relying on copyrights or patents at all.

      Ultimately, I think that the content creators would be much better off under this system than the current one, since overall consumer spending on creative media is not likely to decrease much, while a much larger percentage goes directly to the creators rather than the distributors.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
  8. Sony Rootkits in Libraries by Rick+Sands · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder if any of the sony rootkits have made it into the music collections of libraries? Would the librarians even know to not stock those titles?

    1. Re:Sony Rootkits in Libraries by yar · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, Sony Rootkits did make it into libraries. Yes, most librarians know not to stock such titles. Many are quite technologically proficient and follow sites like Slashdot. :P

  9. MPAA laughs at Copyright end-dates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was involved in some video Copy Protection Technology standardisation efforts in Europe and had to sit round the table with the MPAA. ANY attempt to bring an argument along the lines of "how do we put the copyright expiration date into the DRM metadata" was laughed at. None of the technology companies were interested in running with the idea either - the consumers rights could just go hang.

    All part of life in the behind-the-scenes world of technology standardisation.

  10. Not an issue by VisceralLogic · · Score: 4, Funny

    they point out that DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright. Fortunately for us here in the US, works going out of copyright isn't an issue.

    --
    Stop! Dremel time!
  11. The right to control material by NiteShaed · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "DRM systems may allow copyright holders to retain control over their material longer than they are legally entitled to."

    I'm not sure I agree with this point of view. It seems to me that it's not a right to control material and copyright confers, but the right to legal protection from infringement on that material. If I decide I want to go a step further with something I produce, and lock it up in a way that will keep people from doing what they want with it after I can no longer count on legal protection, then isn't that my prerogative?

    That said, I don't really agree with that approach, I'm just not a fan of telling a creator what they can do with their creation.

    --
    Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
    1. Re:The right to control material by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The only problem with this approach is that copyright is not a god-given right, but a 18th century founded trade agreement.

      The society, with the help of the executive arm - the "Government" - grants temporary rights to help innovation so thus society in general.

      That was the theory in the 18th century and it worked sort-of, but in today's world that theory breaks down because of new technologies and that because the content creators don't keep their end of the bargain. They don't contribute back to society as they should.

      You can't have your cake and eat it too, its a simple choice:

      You either adhere to the _spirit_ of the copyright and use the temporary timeframe given to you while you have "copyright" over something which after the required amount of time becomes public domain OR you are outside the scope of copyright and you receive NO LEGAL PROTECTION if someone else wants to do whatever he wants with the thing you "created".

      --
      It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
      Be yourself no matter what they say
  12. Re:DRM needs to check-out by meringuoid · · Score: 4, Insightful
    What does DRM stand for again?

    Do your bit for information freedom.

    DRM stands for Digital Restrictions Management.

    What, you heard it was Digital Rights Management? No, no, no. The purpose of the technology is to take away rights, like the fair use right to copy to an ipod or a mix tape, and to impose restrictions, like how if your subscription to Napster lapses then all your music stops working. It's Digital Restrictions Management.

    Use the phrase in your posts, in conversation with non-techies, on IRC. Whenever the subject arises. Spread the meme. Subvert the language. It's Digital Restrictions Management, because they want to Restrict you. They care nothing for your rights.

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  13. Copyright Libraries by lisaparratt · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Surely the best solution here is a modification to the law such that any protected digital work must have an unencumbered version of the data lodged with the copyright libraries? This copy is for archive use only until the work falls into the public domain, at which point it is made freely available.

    Artists are protected, execs still get the most important part of their wet dream, and most importantly, the public gets it's dues.

  14. This may be intentional by jc42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In recent years, I've read a number of comments from people in the publishing industry that mention a statistic: The average published book is read by four people. The contexts of the quote is usually that this is considered a problem, and Something Should Be Done About It.

    One way to understand this is to think of the books that you own. How many of your books have been read by three or more other people? Probably none, right? So where does this supposed average of four come from? Right again - libraries. The publishing industry generally considers libraries to be a serious problem. Libraries pay for a book only once, and then they let anyone read the book. All those readers should have bought their own copy. If publishers can make this happen, they think it will quadruple their income.

    One of the things going on with DRM is that publishers see a solution to their problem, in the form of software that will prevent anyone other than the purchaser from reading a book. The intent is to prevent public libraries from doing what they're doing. They're also looking at the possibility of making you pay a second time if you want to reread a book.

    Most publishers aren't in business to educate their readers or to contribute to our culture. They are in business to make money. If they can't make money from a book, they have no reason to let you read it. They certainly don't want you to read a book for free.

    So if you think libraries are an important part of our culture, you should also be thinking about ways to preserve public access to their content. Publishers think they will soon be able to end such public access. They'll probably succeed, unless steps are taken to preserve access.

    (Of course, here in the US, most of the population hasn't been inside a library in years. ;-)

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  15. Public Domain? by Syberghost · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't see any compelling reason to believe that any work created since the term "DRM" was invented will ever go out of copyright.

  16. Mod Parent Up.. by debest · · Score: 2, Interesting
    They are right, but nowhere copyright says that using the material under "Fair use" should be easy.

    As a defence of DRM, that would be fine... if the content cartels hadn't managed to get a law passed that makes the exercise of fair use not only difficult, but illegal.

    Absolutely. The evil thing about the WIPO treaties' laws (DMCA included) is that they play lip-service to respecting fair use, but make it impossible to claim it. In the US, you are technically permitted to break the DRM for your own personal use (this is exempt under the DMCA), but you are forbidden from ever telling anyone how you went about breaking the DRM. This effectively limits legal fair use to advanced electronics and computer engineers who have a lot of time on their hands.

    What I'd love to see (and I know I never will) is for copyright protection to only be granted to works that can be copied. If you publish a work (book, software, music, etc.) on a medium that permits someone to make copies, then you can legally enforce your "copy right" against anyone who infringes that right.

    If, however, you publish something that prevents copies from being made, then you forfeit the legal mechanism that the government has granted you. You are taking the job of preventing infringment of your work out of the government's hand, and taking responsibility for that yourself. After all, why should you be given protection from illicit copying of their work when your work is "uncopyable"?

    I know, it won't happen. It probably tips the copyright balance too far in the other direction. But dare to dream...
    --
    Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
  17. DRM and the Library of Congress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was recently in a room with a high ranking IT person from the U.S. Library of Congress.

    He essentially said the same thing, but here is where it gets interesting.

    He remarked (from my imperfect memory) "People don't understand the amount of money thrown at senators and congressman from media companies to get some favorable legislation. It's so political now that we've been instructed by the head of the library of congress to not comment on this issue, so you can see where this is all going".

    This is scary. The LOC knows congress is selling us out, but they've been told to keep their big mouths shut.

    1. Re:DRM and the Library of Congress by Bucc5062 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If this was the case why not send his remarks (as you recollect) to a local news media. At the very least you may be doing a good thing by trying to help bring these back door coersions to light. At best it gets picked up by the media (local then national) so even more people then those addicted to /. become aware of how much we/thary are losing by those who are meant to represent them.

      Every now and then I read these types of comments on this site and I wonder why those who are upset by what they hear do not do something with the information. Yes, for the record, I would try to report something like this to some media group (tv/paper/radio) in the hopes the word is spread.

      --
      Life is a great ride, the vehicle doesn't matter
  18. Problems with Fair Use and libraries by yar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One of the problems with fair use in the United States is that it's generally not considered a "right" per se. Most choose to look at it as an affirmative defense- that is, something brought up when you're accused of copyright infringement. It's all about the framing used to determine who has the burden of proof. If it's a right, then the people who are trying to affect your rights have the burden of proof. If it's a defense, then you have to prove that you weren't infringing copyright. The law itself mentions neither rights nor defenses- it just says that fair use is not an infringement of copyright.

    Librarians are great allies to intellectual freedom issues, including those involving DRM. Look at the briefs that the American Library Association has filed with the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Many librarians are also quite knowledgable about technology-related issues, as well as fun subjects like copyright.

    Libraries have it rough with the increasing prevalence of electronic journals and DRM technologies. Even with material that is accessed online, there's a good chance that once the library stops paying for access, the patrons lose access to that materials- something that never happened with print journals. DRM and licensing are currently putting libraries between a rock and a hard place.

    1. Re:Problems with Fair Use and libraries by BitterOak · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It's even worse than that at the University at which I work. Now, you need a userID and password (All students, faculty and staff are issued one) just to access the electronic card catalog! This is really a side effect of a security policy in which all publicly available campus computers can now be accessed only through their university ID. I don't think it was targetted at the library card catalog computers per se, but the result is that members of the public can't look up books in the library. (Although they still can at home, via the web.)

      Another side effect is that you can't look up books anonymously to read in the library without checking out the book. This could have a chilling effect on people's reading habits even if the lookups aren't logged, as people can't be sure of this.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
  19. Technology advances by massysett · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This is a legitimate concern, though perhaps for the wrong reasons. By the time these copyrights expire, technology will have improved to an extent we can't imagine. If they're dealing with a circa-2005 copy restriction scheme, I'd bet it could easily be brute forced fifty years from now.

    A better question might be, fifty years from now, will anyone have the technology to even access the works? Think how hard it is to play an eight-track, or even an old 45. If it's copy restricted, will anyone remember how it works? I'll bet no one is playing old WMAs in 2050.

    This might be a huge problem if these copy restriction schemes fade into obscurity, people forget about the works and suddenly, decades later, they want to access them again. But then again, by then it might be easy to reverse-engineer these schemes.

    1. Re:Technology advances by DarkVader · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The answer to that would seem to be no, as the dmca only applies to copyrighted material. If the copyright is expired/voided, it would not apply.

      This might prove an interesting way to legally crack drm as well...

      1. copyright something, and apply drm.

      2. renounce your copyright - transfer the material to the public domain.

      3. don't remove the drm.

      The drm may now be legally cracked, as there is no copyright on the protected material. The crack could legally be distributed as a way to access that public domain material.

  20. DRM harms book sales, freedom helps them by davecb · · Score: 5, Informative
    [Copy of my submission to the U.K. All Party Parliamentary Internet Group, re Digital Rights Management]

    I was the coauthor of a technical book, "Using Samba", published in the United States and Canada by O'Reilly and associates. Despite being made available electronically for no cost, the book was the outstanding seller in its class, and made me substantial royalties.

    The History of "Using Samba"
    This book was published without any form of explicit DRM, in a format suitable for printing from personal computers, with no limitations on distribution of personal printing, and with a license reserving only commercial printing rights to the publisher.

    There was an implicit form of rights management, in that only commercial printers have equipment capable of printing and binding on sufficiently thin paper to make a manageable book: if printed on conventional photocopier paper, the book is over three inches thick. Printing small sections for reference on photocopier paper is perfectly practical, but large-scale printing is not.

    This effectively reinforced the reservations in the license: printing for profit is both illegal and impractical, but personal printing, excerpting and copying is unrestricted.

    The net result is that the book was widely used as a reference, and the on-line readers bought the physical book for its more convenient form in great numbers. O'Reilly has since published a non-trivial number of other books in this manner.

    How copyright deposit libraries should deal with DRM issues
    Copyright and other deposit libraries, such as the National Libraries of the U.K., Canada and the United States should seek and retain unrestricted copies, offering suitable statutory protection to the authors or publishers.

    Upon the expiry of the copyright, the deposit libraries should make the originals available for a nominal fee.

    Upon the failure or discontinuance of a DRM scheme, the publishers should retain the option of republishing under a different scheme under ordinary copyright law.

    On cessation of publication, the copyright should by statute continue for no less than seven years. After this time, upon request by a member of the public, the copyright deposit library should advertise that copyright is deemed to have lapsed, and that it will offer the unrestricted copy within no more than one year. A copyright owner may then give notice that they have in fact recommenced publication, and if so the copyright deposit library shall advertise that fact and not release the unrestricted copy.

    --
    davecb@spamcop.net
  21. DMCA Question by nanojath · · Score: 3, Insightful

    DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright. DRM systems may allow copyright holders to retain control over their material longer than they are legally entitled to. Worse yet, if the software no longer exists to unlock a DRM-protected file, its contents may be lost forever -- exactly the thing libraries are intended to prevent.

    Of course, it seems unlikely that there is anything out there - or likely to be - that couldn't be cracked. But here's a question: something only exists as a DRM protected file. Its copyright expires. The DMCA is still as it is today. Is it still illegal to crack the DRM on this file?

    --

    It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries

    1. Re:DMCA Question by 31415926535897 · · Score: 2, Informative
      But here's a question: something only exists as a DRM protected file. Its copyright expires. The DMCA is still as it is today. Is it still illegal to crack the DRM on this file?

      It is my understanding that the DMCA makes circumventing digital restrictions unlawful when it relates to copyright material. So if the copyright has expired, cracking the DRM does not violate the DMCA.

      Of course, as other posters have mentioned, those of us in the US will probably be blessed with perpetual copyright (a la Micky Mouse).

  22. Getting Disneyed. by edunbar93 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Furthermore, they point out that DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright.

    That's not much of a problem. As Disney has so carefully demonstrated, that will never, ever happen for any copyrighted work that has been published since 1928. The real problem however:

    Worse yet, if the software no longer exists to unlock a DRM-protected file, its contents may be lost forever -- exactly the thing libraries are intended to prevent

    This will happen a lot sooner than the copyright will expire. Like in maybe 10 or 20 years. And not just that the software might not support old DRM formats (remember, they'll be producing new ones every 6 months because hackers will always find a way around them), but what about the hardware? Will it work in 15 years? Will someone be there to make replacement parts in 15 years? DRM is all about tying one electronic copy to one device at a time, whether it's a PDA-style book reader or a PC. But the whole point of electronic formats is reproducability so that you can prevent data loss (among other things).

    The Disneys and Sonys of the world don't give a rat's ass about whether a historian can understand our culture (and by extension, their own) in a hundred or six hundred years. They care only whether or not they can make money this year.

    --
    "No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
  23. first off by majortom1981 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I am an etwork admin in a library. Many libraries have cd and dvd repairing machines (the professional kind) so all it takes is to let them know that a cd is scratched. Second Atleats the libary that I work in has a bigger dvd collection then probably the local blockbusters and holywood videos. This could harm many libraries because people dont read books anymore. Libraries depend on free computer and wifi access and the cd and dvd takeout. Oh trust me the riaa and mpaa will hear about it.

  24. Re:DRM needs to check-out by duerra · · Score: 2

    I always thought that DRM was appropriately named, it just depends on the frame of mind that you are coming from.

    DRM - Digital Rights Management. The system is managing your rights... by taking them away, instead of you managing your rights.

  25. Read Herring by hacksoncode · · Score: 3, Insightful
    If it takes more than 10 minutes to break today's DRM 100 years from now: a) I will eat my Birkenstocks without salt, and b) someone just shoot me, because we've failed as a civilization.

    So the whole "what about when copyright expires" spiel is a read herring (pun intended).

  26. Charlie Chaplin DVDs? by tepples · · Score: 2, Informative

    The answer to that would seem to be no, as the dmca only applies to copyrighted material.

    Under your interpretation of 1201 and foreign counterparts, it's legal to crack Charlie Chaplin DVDs and to make and sell circumvention devices that work with Charlie Chaplin DVDs. Under another interpretation, as long as a given DRM format is in active use to restrict even one copyrighted work, it's illegal to make or sell circumvention devices that work with such a format. Courts haven't yet clearly stated which interpretation they will apply.