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Tracking the Cracks

Roland Piquepaille writes "Israeli physicists from the Weizmann Institute have used a new approach to study how materials break. In a short news release, brilliantly titled "Breaking news", they explain their new method for analyzing the progression of a forming crack. The news release even says that it could have help engineers predict 'exactly how much pressure the levees protecting New Orleans could withstand before giving way.' This method could be used by engineers and material scientists in a vast variety of applications."

15 of 140 comments (clear)

  1. The trick is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    never design something so it will hold exactly what it needs to stand up against. Unless you're building for suicidal adventurers, people will appreciate headroom. Especially people behind levees...

    1. Re:The trick is... by XMilkProject · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Contrarily, It's fine to design something so it will hold exactly what it needs to stand up against, as long as your aware that what it needs to stand up against is atleast double what you would ever expect it to stand up against.

      --
      Big ones, small ones, some as big as yer 'ead!
      Give 'em a twist, a flick o' the wrist...
    2. Re:The trick is... by m0nstr42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      never design something so it will hold exactly what it needs to stand up against. Unless you're building for suicidal adventurers, people will appreciate headroom. Especially people behind levees...

      Nobody really does this. That's a standard part of engineering education. Find the exact parameters that you need to work within and then work squarely (and safely) between or above them. For example, maybe the levee needs to be X thickness to withstand a reasonably large hurricane, but at Y thickness the cost becomes prohibitive (not just expensive, but approaching impossible... you could make the levees 100 ft thick and 100 ft high but it would take hundreds of years to build). So you work between X and Y (probably closer to Y where safety is concerned).

      Nobody designed those levees to be *just* strong enough on purpose.

  2. Practically applicable? by onlysolution · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In the article they say taht they have applied their method to a variety of materials, namely plastic, glass and metal. There is a common thread there though, in that all three are higly regular materials. In an earthen levee, or even a contcrete one, the materials used to make are way more irregular than what they have tested their methods with. It sounds like the connection to New Orleans levees is really premature to me.

    1. Re:Practically applicable? by flyingsquid · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It sounds like the connection to New Orleans levees is really premature to me.

      The other issue is that the New Orleans floodwalls are thought to have failed because the soil beneath them became waterlogged and gave way. Is the model going to work in that kind of a situation?

    2. Re:Practically applicable? by phayes · · Score: 3, Insightful
      it could have help engineers predict 'exactly how much pressure the levees protecting New Orleans could withstand before giving way.'

      Translation:

      We'd really like in on some of the millions of dollars the Government is spending on New Orleans...

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    3. Re:Practically applicable? by Rahga · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Millions? With an "M"?

      You know you've missed the mark when even Dr. Evil is laughing at you.

  3. Good Lord... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Another Roland "story"...

  4. Slightly misleading summary by gunpowda · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It would be great if submitters of content actually read it, and made it as 'brilliant' as their attempted irony.

    The news release even says that it could have help engineers predict 'exactly how much pressure the levees protecting New Orleans could withstand before giving way.'

    No, it doesn't. That's a rhetorical question in the first paragraph.

  5. Re:Don't be ridiculous by Teresh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Our government believes that if it isn't broken (yet) don't fix it. Actually, well, a lot of businesses think that too.

    --
    Do you Gentoo?
  6. Re:Plumbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The people who will probably pay the most attention are those who are developing pressure vessels (especially nuclear pressure vessels). Crack propagation and arrestation are very important to understand especially in brittle fracture or stress corrosion cracking contexts. When you are talking about releasing high pressure steam or radioactive material if a system breaks you tend to care a lot about understanding where it is safe to operate.

    An easy way to break a pressure vessel is to add just a little chlorine at high temperatures or too much stress at lower temperatures. This doesn't only apply to pressure vessels. There are a surprising number of roofs of swimming pools that collapse and kill people. Chlorine at reasonable temperatures causes SCC (stress corrosion cracking) on the steel supports and then a lower temperature later reduces the ability of crack arrestation. Result: lots of children dead. Chlorine is the bane of steel.

  7. Why is this on /.??? by geneing · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Dear Editors,

    Why is this article posted on /.? At best this is a report of a minor advance in a well established field. Hundreds of such advances are made in every field every week. Yes, PR department at Weitzmann Inst called it a breakthrough but that doesn't make it into one.

    Is it possible to limit the science postings to real science news? Maybe have editors who know the field evaluate the postings before hand.

    1. Re:Why is this on /.??? by Otter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Personally, I couldn't care less about how many stories Roland Piquepaille submits or whether they link to his blog. The problem is that all his science-related links are like this one -- some press release about a respectable but routine publication, selected seemingly at random and spun into a revolutionary new breakthrough.

    2. Re:Why is this on /.??? by wass · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Uggh, didn't realize this was a Roland article.

      But anyway, are you that new here? Nearly all /. science articles report on press-releases like this, this specific article is no exception. In fact, that's the whole point of press releases, it's very rare to come across any 'earth-shattering' discoveries in the sciences these days. So on one hand it's cool that of the thousands of research projects going on making small but steady headway, a few of these results are reported here. For example, I certainly wouldn't have known about this research, other than the rare physics colloquium (eg, at my school's weekly colloquia we had one on fractures about 4 years ago).

      On the other hand, though, it is amusing and also frustrating to see so many slashdotters complain about the low-detail PR writeup, extrapolate the press release to the actual research involved, and then go on to criticize the scientists involved as having done nothing important beyond basic hand-waving. Such criticism like this is rather prevalent on slashdot, and it's amazing how many people here aren't aware of the actual peer-review journal publications that go on behind the low-detail press releases.

      --

      make world, not war

  8. Re:My inner Materials scientist just got shot. by theguyfromsaturn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Where the heck are you getting this idea that concrete is more regular than glass? You seem to be talking of a laboratory prepared CEMENT mixture. Yes, certainly if you prepare glass and cement in a laboratory condition, your hardened cement is likely to be more regular. There are, many considerations that makes this untrue for real life construction.

    The first thing to understand is that concrete is NOT cement. Concrete is a MIXTURE of cement and agregate. You can use all kinds of things for agregate, gravel and sand being the most common. Sometimes some fly ash from blast furnaces is added. Engineers normally use lower factors of safety for concrete than steel because the uncertainties are greater. When you test concrete to failure, sometimes the fractuers cut across the agregate grains where the cement bond was stronger than the agregate, other times it will follow a path around strong agregate particles.

    The other thing to know about concrete is that is it NOT made in a factory, under controlled industrial conditions and unit testing. Sure, you may get your concrete mixed at a concrete plant and the trucks, but eventually it has to get to the field. Then it must be placed... and the experience and professionalism of the workers is very variable. Furthermore, concrete needs to cure in place. The water content of the concrete during this stage is important since it needs water for the chemical reactions to harden the concrete. But then again there is an optimum value. The chemical reaction is also helped by high temperatures. So weather conditions and placement conditions will affect the final product.

    And of course, portland cement is a strong alkali. It can actually react with the agregates themselves which can build up stresses and cause cracks inside the concrete independently of external stresses. You may have witnessed this alkali-aggregate reactivity in concrete if you see cracks in concrete that seem to be humid, even what it hasn't been raining, and somtimes oozing a bit of white foam.

    In final analysis concrete is a highly nonuniform construction material.

    It can also added that most of your levees, and most likely the sections that failed, are probably earthworks. Therefore whatever the uniformity or lack thereof of the concrete, it would have done nothing for the leveees. Cracks are only meaningful in materials that need resist tensile or bending stresses. Needless to say, that is NOT how earthworks are desined.

    --
    I like my dinosaurs feathery, and my pterosaurs hairy (or is it pycnofibery?)