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Step Away From The Games Legislation

Next Generation has an opinion piece by former Lucasarts VP of global marketing John Geoghegan. In it, he discusses exactly why gaming regulation is such a bad idea, and why he's so unsurprised that people have tried to do it anyway. From the article: "Kids need acceptable outlets to channel their energy and aggression. Critics claim video games promote aggression but an argument! is to be made that they channel aggression and perhaps even siphon it off, just like sports. Crucial to Schechter's thesis is his claim that popular entertainment is much less violent today than in the past. Oh, really? Well, consider the 19th century when whole villages turned out for a public hanging like it was a kid's snow day. Or think about Dante's graphic description of hell in The Inferno."

12 of 104 comments (clear)

  1. The problem is retailers... by PFI_Optix · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They don't sell R-rated movies to a 14 year old. They don't sell "explicit lyrics" records to 14 year old. But they'll sell an M-17 game to the same kid. If retailers would adhere to the voluntary ratings of games the same way they adhere to the voluntary ratings of movies, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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    1. Re:The problem is retailers... by itscolduphere · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They don't sell R-rated movies to a 14 year old. They don't sell "explicit lyrics" records to 14 year old. But they'll sell an M-17 game to the same kid. If retailers would adhere to the voluntary ratings of games the same way they adhere to the voluntary ratings of movies, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

      All the stores in my area actually do adhere to them. The problem, much like with tobacco, is that they need only find someone 17 or older to buy it for them. This can be an older sibling, friend of a friend, sibling of a friend, guy on the street they gave 10 bucks to (I've actually been offered this before), or whoever. Funny part is, it seems like more often than not the adult buying the game for them is their parent. Ignorance is bliss, and the US is full of some happy people.

    2. Re:The problem is retailers... by PFI_Optix · · Score: 1, Insightful
      The local Gamestop has made a habit of selling anything to anyone. Best Buy and Wal-Mart are both good about enforcing the ratings, at least.

      Of course, the real problem is that parents and grandparents and other family members are buying games for kids without knowing what they are buying, then complaining about violent games. It's like handing your kid alcohol and complaining about underaged drinking.

      The thing is, no one wants to say that. If you call anyone's parenting skills into question, prepare to be crucified. "Don't tell me how to raise my kids" and so on.

      In all reality, a ban on the sale of violent video games to minors shouldn't impact many people. Kids still get booze, adults still get drugs, it'll just be there to make the inept parents feel a little better about their parenting skills (which apparently including pressuring Congress into doing what they want).

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    3. Re:The problem is retailers... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1, Insightful

      are you saying that the fact that Game cater to a growing audience (including the first generation of gamers who are now in the second half of their life) is a bad thing, or that it has somehow corrupted video games?

      I guess I'm asking a question: Why does an aging generation of gamers automatically presume that gmaers must play adult themed games?

      When the Odyssey and other Pong machines were released, it wasn't kids that were buying them. It was adults with money. These machines were home entertainment devices targetted at pretty much anyone who wanted to use them. It took your television, and added the first inkling of interactivity. (Very "space-age" at the time.) No one demanded that your little PONG paddle violently blow up when you lost, or that your little tennis sprite keel over in a puddle of blood. This was all added by game producers at a later date. Not because the market demanded it (it really didn't), but because it sold.

      By appealing to the baser sex and violence instincts, game producers were able to move their titles off the shelves. Now it's automatically assumed that a game must have these elements to compete. Kind of sad, really. As Geometry Wars and Nintendo have shown, there's no need for these elements in games. But they're there because we can put them there.

      I'm not saying I begrudge people who REALLY want their sex and violence. (Though I can't say I really understand them that much.) But I do feel sadness at the fact that the market is now dominated by these aspects at the expense of more traditional, focused games.

    4. Re:The problem is retailers... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why do you assume that video games are "family entertainment"?

      Why do you assume that "family entertainment" == "kids"? Many board games are "family entertainment".

      Q: Who are board games intended to entertain?
      A: Adults and children alike.

      Shared experience is what "family entertainment" is all about. Part of growing your child is doing more complex games/tasks with them. This allows them to learn more about being an adult, and allows you to teach and share experiences with them. Not to mention that it can be a LOT of fun for both the adults and children. Whoever came up with this idea that there must be a dichotomy between the two needs to smacked upside the head. No wonder parents never know what their kids are doing! They never participate in any activities with their kids!

      (I feel a long sermon about the "Virtual Babysitter" coming on. Must... resist... temptation...)

  2. This is a hard call though by rwven · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There have been countless studies based on far more opinion that show that young kids behavior is heavily effected negativley by video game and TV media of a violent nature... Kids watching power rangers do nothing but fight with each other and when those fights turn violent they are using the "techniques" used on power rangers to fight. (attempted karate i guess you could call it) Kids who watch Barney (as silly and sad as it is) are much calmer, they share with each other, and generally get along well.

    I think certain regulations should be enacted, but i also feel that if parents did a decent job AT their job, we wouldnt have these issues. I, for instance, might not want a future 11 year old son playinga game as violent as F.E.A.R.

    Maybe you think i'm off base, but kids are NOT adults and they can NOT judge things for themselves. They don't always know what things they learn in "fake world" can be transferred to "real world." It's just a set up for things later down the road IMHO.

    1. Re:This is a hard call though by AlienGoods · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There have been countless studies based on far more opinion that show that young kids behavior is heavily effected negativley by video game and TV media of a violent nature... Kids watching power rangers do nothing but fight with each other and when those fights turn violent they are using the "techniques" used on power rangers to fight. (attempted karate i guess you could call it) Kids who watch Barney (as silly and sad as it is) are much calmer, they share with each other, and generally get along well.

      While this may be true (you haven't given any links to these studies and their methodologies, but I'll take your word for it), I think it misses an important point. Kids have natural tendancies. Some are calm, some are hyper. I would think hyper kids would be bored as hell by Barney and gravitate towards Power Rangers. Relation doesn't equal causation. Perhaps the studies took this into account, but without more info I'll view it with a great deal of skepticism. For all I know, it could have been undertaken by the Parents Television Council (you remember, those who are afraid of 'the nipple').

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  3. Re:A License To Have Children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Yeah this is a great idea, I'm glad this was modded up. Not only is it plausible, it makes perfect sense! I mean heck, it did wonders for the Nazis, amirite?? Who should we grant licenses to? Older, white middle class americans only?

    You have a point in that irresponsible parents (and irresponsibility) in general is the real problem here, however, your suggestion is not only infantile but offensive and preposterous.

    Laws won't fix this problem. We as a society need to reward and encourage responsibility, rather than reinforcing scapegoating and selfishness.

  4. Or think about now: by Irvu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Football (American, Austrailian, etc.)
    Soccer (Yes the game is minimal contact but the fans aren't).
    Hockey (goes without saying).
    NASCAR (For those in the U.S. Just how often do they replay the crash scenes).
    Boxing
    Karate ...

    In my experience most of the people clamouring for games legislation a) ignore these things and the very real links between them and aggressive behavior, or b) even promote these very violent endeavors as "healthy excercise". IMHO much of the Game legislation, like calls for tv censorship in the early days and warning labels on CD's has to do with new tech. Whatever the new things kids do (D&D, Dancing, Heavy Metal, Video Games) is always blamed for all social ills because, at a basic level, it is't what we did.

    That having been said I do think that some games (GTA) are in a special category by themselves and should be considered carefully. Banning them won't really work we ban kids from having alcohol, cigratettes, and porn in the U.S. but despite all that they still got them even before the internet. Ultimately its all about educating parents so that they realize that a game called Grand Theft Auto isn't exactly Sesame Street.

  5. Re:A License To Have Children by jandrese · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Who's going to administer the test to see if you're qualified to have children? As everybody on Slashdot knows, a certification is often just a piece of paper that you can get by spending some bucks and memorizing a book without even really understanding it. How many times have you met a MCSE who can't seem to solve the most basic of problems?

    Unless handled very carefully, the certification process does little to insure that the person is fit for the job. For something like parenthood, it's going to be nearly impossible to come up with a good generalist course and certification exam that covers all aspects of parenthood while not overly burdening the system or the applicants.

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  6. Re:A License To Have Children by Schitzoflink · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes because that whole License to drive thing really got rid of the bad drivers...

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  7. Re:The Music Man by Schmendr1ck · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Wow, I wish I had mod points.

    The Music Man is a perfect example of what's going on here. The crooked salesman (insert your favorite politician or zealous anti-game lawyer here) creates a problem where none exists, solely for the purpose of selling his wares to a bunch of unsuspecting dupes. Of course, unlike Harold Hill, the anti-game zealots will never see that the real problem is bad parenting, not violent games.

    For the record, I'm a mid-30s father of two who grew up playing video games, and my two year old has already started. The games that we play (e.g. Winnie the Pooh, Reader Rabbit) are great tools that help her learn and allow us to spend quality time together. We have a firm rule in our home that the kid-unfriendly games like Halo 2 stay in the box until after bedtime.

    No problem with the pool table here, Professor Hill. Go talk to the folk in the next town.