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Step Away From The Games Legislation

Next Generation has an opinion piece by former Lucasarts VP of global marketing John Geoghegan. In it, he discusses exactly why gaming regulation is such a bad idea, and why he's so unsurprised that people have tried to do it anyway. From the article: "Kids need acceptable outlets to channel their energy and aggression. Critics claim video games promote aggression but an argument! is to be made that they channel aggression and perhaps even siphon it off, just like sports. Crucial to Schechter's thesis is his claim that popular entertainment is much less violent today than in the past. Oh, really? Well, consider the 19th century when whole villages turned out for a public hanging like it was a kid's snow day. Or think about Dante's graphic description of hell in The Inferno."

19 of 104 comments (clear)

  1. The problem is retailers... by PFI_Optix · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They don't sell R-rated movies to a 14 year old. They don't sell "explicit lyrics" records to 14 year old. But they'll sell an M-17 game to the same kid. If retailers would adhere to the voluntary ratings of games the same way they adhere to the voluntary ratings of movies, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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    1. Re:The problem is retailers... by sqlrob · · Score: 2, Informative

      The retailers do a better job policing games than movies (81% vs 75%) so why aren't movies attacked first?

    2. Re:The problem is retailers... by itscolduphere · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They don't sell R-rated movies to a 14 year old. They don't sell "explicit lyrics" records to 14 year old. But they'll sell an M-17 game to the same kid. If retailers would adhere to the voluntary ratings of games the same way they adhere to the voluntary ratings of movies, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

      All the stores in my area actually do adhere to them. The problem, much like with tobacco, is that they need only find someone 17 or older to buy it for them. This can be an older sibling, friend of a friend, sibling of a friend, guy on the street they gave 10 bucks to (I've actually been offered this before), or whoever. Funny part is, it seems like more often than not the adult buying the game for them is their parent. Ignorance is bliss, and the US is full of some happy people.

    3. Re:The problem is retailers... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Funny part is, it seems like more often than not the adult buying the game for them is their parent.

      It constantly amazes me how many parents don't seem to "get" that a game is not harmless just because it's a computer game. Somehow they all seem to be stuck in this 1980s view of all games being targetted at kids, and the graphics being incapable of showing anything that isn't cartoony. (I'd get into the whole, "It must be fine because it's a cartoon" argument, but then I'd REALLY get sidetracked.) Would it kill these people to flip over a box and look?

      I have to wonder what Ralph Baer thinks of all this. When he invented the Odyssey back in the late 50's, he was only trying to make televisions more interactive. Would he have done so if he could have seen how video games would eventually be corrupted from home entertainment for the whole family into nothing more than "adult games"? There's some sort of innocence lost in the transition that I find very, very sad.

    4. Re:The problem is retailers... by sqlrob · · Score: 3, Informative

      I misremembered, or I'm remembering a different year: From the FTC for 2003:

      Movie Theater Ticket 36%
      Movie on DVD 81%
      Music Recording 83%
      Electronic Game 69%

      Games are kicking the butt of DVDs and Music, so why are enforcement of game ratings the issue?

    5. Re:The problem is retailers... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just to clarify the parent, lower is better. The percentage signifies the number of underage "mystery shoppers" who were able to obtain goods that they shouldn't have been able to. Movie theaters are leading the pack by only allowing 39% of underage shoppers through. DVDs are doing horrible by allowing 81% of mystery shoppers through. None of them are really doing all that great.

    6. Re:The problem is retailers... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why do you assume that video games are "family entertainment"?

      Why do you assume that "family entertainment" == "kids"? Many board games are "family entertainment".

      Q: Who are board games intended to entertain?
      A: Adults and children alike.

      Shared experience is what "family entertainment" is all about. Part of growing your child is doing more complex games/tasks with them. This allows them to learn more about being an adult, and allows you to teach and share experiences with them. Not to mention that it can be a LOT of fun for both the adults and children. Whoever came up with this idea that there must be a dichotomy between the two needs to smacked upside the head. No wonder parents never know what their kids are doing! They never participate in any activities with their kids!

      (I feel a long sermon about the "Virtual Babysitter" coming on. Must... resist... temptation...)

  2. reading for kids??? by joe+155 · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Or think about Dante's graphic description of hell in The Inferno."

    Ah yes, I remember my grandad telling me about when he was a young lad, reading Dante's divine comedy...

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  3. The Music Man by Bender0x7D1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    While presented in a comedic way, it shows someone convincing a town that they have trouble because the billiard parlor in town has brought in a pool table. While billiards is OK, pool is a horrible game and will cause degradation in the children and cause them to stop doing their chores and become gamblers.

    Just goes to show that new things are often looked upon as corruptive or causing some sort of lamentable behavior. I remember when Pac-Man came out and people objected since it was dangerous medically and that playing it was like running up 2-3 flights of stairs. Now it is considered harmless fun.

    --
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    1. Re:The Music Man by Schmendr1ck · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Wow, I wish I had mod points.

      The Music Man is a perfect example of what's going on here. The crooked salesman (insert your favorite politician or zealous anti-game lawyer here) creates a problem where none exists, solely for the purpose of selling his wares to a bunch of unsuspecting dupes. Of course, unlike Harold Hill, the anti-game zealots will never see that the real problem is bad parenting, not violent games.

      For the record, I'm a mid-30s father of two who grew up playing video games, and my two year old has already started. The games that we play (e.g. Winnie the Pooh, Reader Rabbit) are great tools that help her learn and allow us to spend quality time together. We have a firm rule in our home that the kid-unfriendly games like Halo 2 stay in the box until after bedtime.

      No problem with the pool table here, Professor Hill. Go talk to the folk in the next town.

  4. not exactly... by Schwartzboy · · Score: 2, Funny

    Of course your grandad didn't read The Divine Comedy when he was a small child. He had one of the original copies of "My First Big Picture Book o' Dante", which should explain quite a lot if you've ever wondered why he had those recurring nightmares that started around age 5...

    --
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  5. A License To Have Children by mabu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The more I hear about things like this, the more it occurs to me that perhaps the only legislation we really need is a license to have children. Seriously, parents should know what is going on with their kids; they should be aware of how much of which media their children are exposed to and that is what needs the most regulating. There will always be some easily-accessible corrupting or dangerous influence. If, as a parent, you don't have the time or desire to regulate your children's activities, you shouldn't be a parent.

    1. Re:A License To Have Children by jandrese · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Who's going to administer the test to see if you're qualified to have children? As everybody on Slashdot knows, a certification is often just a piece of paper that you can get by spending some bucks and memorizing a book without even really understanding it. How many times have you met a MCSE who can't seem to solve the most basic of problems?

      Unless handled very carefully, the certification process does little to insure that the person is fit for the job. For something like parenthood, it's going to be nearly impossible to come up with a good generalist course and certification exam that covers all aspects of parenthood while not overly burdening the system or the applicants.

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    2. Re:A License To Have Children by Nos. · · Score: 2, Informative

      I see your point, and sort of agree with you. I'm a new parent (he's almost 3 months old). I plan to decide what games he can play and what movies he can watch. I watch a lot of movies and play a lot of (PC) games. However, when it comes to music, I'm not at all up on what's current and what "artists" would be considered acceptable to various ages. Now, if the material is rated like movies, and retailers only sell to those who meet the minimum age, there's less chance of my son getting material that I consider inappropriate.

      Now, if my son wants to have the newest games thats rated too high for him to buy himself, I want him to ask me to get it. Then, I as a parent can make the decision myself. If I belive that the material is too mature for him, I can refuse. However, If I believe that he is mature enough for the content, then I can purchase the material for him.

      This is the solution I want to see. Games, movies, music, heck, even books, should be rated, and unless someone meets the minimum age requirements, retailers should not sell to them. If they do, there should be penalties, just like there are for alcohol and tobacco.

      I realize that this isn't perfect, I remember getting buddies to "pull" beer for my friends and I when we were underage. It will however, reduce the amount of mature content my son can view without my knowledge and consent. I still plan to pay attention to what games he has installed on his computer, know what music he listens to, and what shows he watching. Having a legislated rating system will let me know why content was rated high, and as a parent, let me make an informed decision about allowing my son access to it.

    3. Re:A License To Have Children by Schitzoflink · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes because that whole License to drive thing really got rid of the bad drivers...

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      Mr. T carries a postage stamp in his wallet at all times on the back is a list of all the fools he doesn't pity
  6. This is a hard call though by rwven · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There have been countless studies based on far more opinion that show that young kids behavior is heavily effected negativley by video game and TV media of a violent nature... Kids watching power rangers do nothing but fight with each other and when those fights turn violent they are using the "techniques" used on power rangers to fight. (attempted karate i guess you could call it) Kids who watch Barney (as silly and sad as it is) are much calmer, they share with each other, and generally get along well.

    I think certain regulations should be enacted, but i also feel that if parents did a decent job AT their job, we wouldnt have these issues. I, for instance, might not want a future 11 year old son playinga game as violent as F.E.A.R.

    Maybe you think i'm off base, but kids are NOT adults and they can NOT judge things for themselves. They don't always know what things they learn in "fake world" can be transferred to "real world." It's just a set up for things later down the road IMHO.

    1. Re:This is a hard call though by AlienGoods · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There have been countless studies based on far more opinion that show that young kids behavior is heavily effected negativley by video game and TV media of a violent nature... Kids watching power rangers do nothing but fight with each other and when those fights turn violent they are using the "techniques" used on power rangers to fight. (attempted karate i guess you could call it) Kids who watch Barney (as silly and sad as it is) are much calmer, they share with each other, and generally get along well.

      While this may be true (you haven't given any links to these studies and their methodologies, but I'll take your word for it), I think it misses an important point. Kids have natural tendancies. Some are calm, some are hyper. I would think hyper kids would be bored as hell by Barney and gravitate towards Power Rangers. Relation doesn't equal causation. Perhaps the studies took this into account, but without more info I'll view it with a great deal of skepticism. For all I know, it could have been undertaken by the Parents Television Council (you remember, those who are afraid of 'the nipple').

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  7. Public executions and censorship by Animats · · Score: 4, Informative
    Saudi Arabia still has public executions. They're usually held in "Chop-Chop Square", in Riyadh. Fridays at noon.

    A minor official from the Interior Ministry read out the charges against the kneeling prisoner. The executioner--a large black man with a scimitar--approached the kneeling prisoner from behind. After the sentence was read, the executioner jabbed the prisoner in the lower back with the tip of the sword, causing the prisoner to involuntarily jerk up. When he did, the sword flashed down. At that moment the head is sliced off and sent flying across the square. Blood jets from the severed carotid arteries and jugular veins, spraying into the air like a fountain. The frenzied crowd screams in choreographed unison, "Allah Akbar"!

    The Saudi "General Presidency for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vices has a page listing some things they prohibit. There are pictures of prohibited items, including some of video games. Most dolls are illegal. Barbie is definitely illegal. Valentine's Day gifts are illegal. Spandex seems to be illegal.

    No prohibited weapons, though.

    In the US, it's amusing that the anti-video-game people are often the same as the pro-gun people. "For only a little more, you can own the real thing!"

  8. Or think about now: by Irvu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Football (American, Austrailian, etc.)
    Soccer (Yes the game is minimal contact but the fans aren't).
    Hockey (goes without saying).
    NASCAR (For those in the U.S. Just how often do they replay the crash scenes).
    Boxing
    Karate ...

    In my experience most of the people clamouring for games legislation a) ignore these things and the very real links between them and aggressive behavior, or b) even promote these very violent endeavors as "healthy excercise". IMHO much of the Game legislation, like calls for tv censorship in the early days and warning labels on CD's has to do with new tech. Whatever the new things kids do (D&D, Dancing, Heavy Metal, Video Games) is always blamed for all social ills because, at a basic level, it is't what we did.

    That having been said I do think that some games (GTA) are in a special category by themselves and should be considered carefully. Banning them won't really work we ban kids from having alcohol, cigratettes, and porn in the U.S. but despite all that they still got them even before the internet. Ultimately its all about educating parents so that they realize that a game called Grand Theft Auto isn't exactly Sesame Street.