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Verizon Threatens Google's 'Free Lunch'

ILikeRed writes to tell us the Washington Post is reporting that Verizon is becoming much more vocal about internet firms using "their" lines to do business without paying extra. From the article: "The network builders are spending a fortune constructing and maintaining the networks that Google intends to ride on with nothing but cheap servers," Thorne told a conference marking the 10th anniversary of the Telecommunications Act of 1996. "It is enjoying a free lunch that should, by any rational account, be the lunch of the facilities providers." This, as lawmakers are approaching new legislation that could let telcos charge internet companies much more for the use of high speed connections.

12 of 724 comments (clear)

  1. Free Lunch? by Mrs.+Grundy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Free lunch? It seems like it's neither free as in beer nor speech. As all /.ers know, there is no other kind of free. I'm sure Google's network bandwidth fees are neither free nor small and I know I pay for internet access. So who's getting what for free? Maybe the telecoms are using that little-knownrhetorical device called hyperbole. Or perhaps they are trying to say that companies like Google have found a moreprofitable use for bandwidth than they have and they would like apiece of the pie. A free piece of the pie.

    1. Re:Free Lunch? by MikeFM · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think it started with Google starting to buy up their own fiber and tinker with providing a phone service. Google became competition for the telcos and they should be blind scared of that.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
  2. This Ain't No Free Lunch by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ...and here I thought Google paid for their bandwidth like everybody else.

    Google isn't getting any more of a "free lunch" than anybody else; all that makes them special is that the service they provide with the bandwidth they use is insanely popular and valuable.

    Imagine for a moment that Verizon provides natural gas utilities instead of communications utilities. Google pays 'em for the gas they use to bake the big, juicy pies that everybody loves. Google makes a fortune from their pies. Is Verizon somehow due something extra because their gas was used to fire the oven?

    All that Verizon can see are the nice, fat pies Google has cooling on the windowsill. This isn't about free lunch; this is about grabbing a piece of Google's pie for themselves--by crook or hook.

    --

    Obliteracy: Words with explosions

  3. Trying to ignore the obvious.... by 8282now · · Score: 5, Insightful

    - Do the Verizon customers who access Google's content pay for their network connections?
      - Does Google pay their network provider(s) for the access they're using?
      - Does Verzion derive an economic benefit by having access to Google's services for it's paying customers?

      Therefore:
      - Does Verizon believe that they're not charging their customers enough for the services the customer uses?

      It has not escaped my attention that I'm reading Slashdot on a free day pass paid sponsored by Verizon... :)
    ~

  4. Don't peering agreements already cover this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ok, can someone explain to me what the problem is? Here's how I see it. You (whoever you are, oh smart /. reader) tell me where I got it wrong.

    Google has a bunch of servers in a datacenter. That datacenter is hooked up to the Internet somehow, through some ISP, probably a big one (though clearly not Verizon or they wouldn't beaking off about it so much), because if it wasn't hooked up to _someone_ it'd just be a bunch of servers in isolation and Google would be worth nothing. So, Big ISP has run fiber to Google's datacenter(s), and charges Google a fee each month to carry their data. I mean, Google doesn't get free Internet access, do they? Big ISP collects their money, based either on a 95th percentile deal or a byte count deal, depending on the contract. Big ISP doesn't live in isolation either, or they'd be called AOL. So Big ISP probably has a peering agreement with other ISPs, like, say, Verizon. So Google's traffic goes out Big ISP and over to Verizon when a Verizon customer wants it, and some company hooked up to Verizon's backbone has their data go over to Big ISP when a customer at Big ISP wants it. I've just described peering in its most simple terms, haven't I? So, don't peering agreements work such that if more data goes from Big ISP to Verizon in a month, Big ISP gives Verizon money, and if more data goes the other way, Verizon gives Big ISP money. So if Google is such a massive bandwidth hog, they are not in fact getting a free lunch, because Big ISP has to give Verizon money to meet its commitments for the peering agreement, and Big ISP turns around and collects that money from Google in their monthly fee, and if Google is costing Big ISP more every month, then they (simple economics here) charge them more money. So, my question is, what the HELL is the problem? Isn't Verizon already getting paid for Google traffic?

  5. What do I pay my DSL provider for, then? by sych · · Score: 5, Insightful

    *I* as a subscriber am paying a fee to use the *network* to access anything that *I* want to! If that happens to be Google, then that's *my* choice!

  6. Mushrooms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's have some metaphorical fun. Suppose you're a mushroom farmer. You sell your mushrooms wholesale for $1 a bushel and life is good; you're not rich but you get by. One day you notice that Mario Batali is using your mushrooms in his restaurant and on his show and making a bundle. He's selling dishes which prominently feature--no rely on--your mushrooms for far more than you thought they were worth. Do you think you have a case to extract a fee from Chef Batali? Is he getting a free lunch from your hard work or does the mushroom farmer just have business-model-envy? I encourage equally metaphorical and perhaps dubious responses.

    1. Re:Mushrooms by inertialmatrix · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'll play..

      Suppose you are an electric utility, and you have many millions of paying customers. Life is good; you're a super rich mega corporation, but you would like to make more profits (after all you owe it the shareholders) and have your sites on once again taking the throne back and becoming an honest to goodness monopoly. One day you notice that Sony is selling products that require your electricity to work, and that Sony is making a bundle. Their products absolutely rely on your electricity, and you realize that your electricity is worth more than you thought! After all Sony is getting a free lunch; forget the fact that Sonys customers are already paying for the electricity. You decide that in order for Sonys products (and by extension their customers) will have to pay another fee for the access to electricity that up until now they thought was already paid for. After all, the infrastructure needed to grow the electricity business is not cheap, and you are not interested in giving out a free lunch to anyone.

  7. It's difficult to adapt to a new environment by carribeiro · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Disclaimer: I used to work for a telco. A small one but a telco nevertheless.

    Working for a telco is a unique experience. I learned a lot, and believe me, most of it was good. I've learned a lot, both technically and from a management POV. I had some opportunities that a small company could not afford. Even with all problems, it was a good time.

    The basic problem with telcos is that they still think in terms of their cash cow service, that is voice. They still think in terms of how much the user will pay per transaction, or minute. They have a huge structure, a huge legacy that can't simply be buried or thrown out the window. They have fear of cannibalizing their own products. But worse, they don't get it, and that's not because they're not intelligent, or bad at what they do. They don't get it because most of the time, people are busy running what pays their wages, and that's the legacy services. There's little incentive inside the company to do something else, specially when it means that it could make a lot of people lose their jobs. There's little incentive for people that talks about cannibalizing revenue.

    In the end, telcos are like big animals who are threatened by the changing environment. They may have a lot of power, but in the end, guess what? Evolution is inescapable. Verizon (and other big telcos) may even win this battle, and a few other ones. But in the long term, they can't win the war. Bandwidth is doomed to become cheaper and cheaper. People just want to communicate with each other, and Verizon can't control what people do. It's market at work.

  8. Re:Google should just stop serving Verizon by aachrisg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Google should do exactly that. Issue a public "so sorry for using your wires" to verizon and start blocking all verizon addresses. Chances are within 24 hours, verizon would be offering to PAY GOOGLE to start using their wires again. Verizon is the one leaching off of the internet content providers..they get $40 (or whatever) a month to sell google et al to their customers without having to pay anything to the content providers.

  9. To win the debate, frame the debate. by khasim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This isn't about a "free lunch" or "free ride" or anything like that.

    This is about Verizon realizing that providing the pipeline is a good, solid revenue stream ... but the REAL money is in controlling the bottleneck.

    So, they attempt to frame the debate as "free lunch", but the reality is that they're looking for a way to get some of Google's revenues by building a bottleneck.

  10. Re:Do google pay for bandwidth? by racermd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is exactly why the telcos are (to me) being seen as greedy f'n bastards. They're already getting payment from me (and their other customers) to utilize their bandwidth. Now they apparently want to double-dip and charge the party at the far end to send packets of data to the telco's paying customer. Essentially, in POTS terms, they want both the caller and the callee to pay for the same conversation.

    Google pays for the bandwidth they use from their provider. I, as a broadband connected citizen, pay for the bandwidth I use to connect to Google. Essentially, the telcos are already getting paid twice - once to accept the packet and again to deliver it to it's destination.

    There is *NO* reason why additional charges should be allowed. It's lunacy to think that this could be allowed to happen. Cost of access can do nothing but go up, which will further widen the gap between those that can afford to be online and those that cannot.

    If the telcos aren't happy with how much they're paid to have data travel across their network, then they should re-address their pricing structure with their customers directly.

    Knowing what a price increase would mean to the number of customers they'd retain, the safer alternative is clear - charge the companies that their users want data from.

    Free lunch?! Ha! They've kept their lunch safe and now they're asking for the $50/plate buffet. Greedy f'n bastards...

    --
    My sources are unreliable, but their information is fascinating. -- Ashleigh Brilliant