Bullying Affects Social Status?

An anonymous reader wrote to mention a ScienceDaily article about the social status effects of bullying on mice and men. From the article: "The results reveal neural mechanisms by which social learning is shaped by psychosocial experience and how antidepressants act in this particular brain circuit. They also suggest new strategies for treating mood disorders such as depression, social phobia and post-traumatic stress disorder, in which social withdrawal is a prominent symptom ... He and his colleagues also discovered that social defeat triggered an upheaval in gene expression in the target area of the circuit, the nucleus accumbens, located deep in the front part of the brain -- 309 genes increased in expression while 17 decreased."

Comments

The cure for bullying?

[NiteShaed]

In extreme cases, such as people with actual social phobias, being able to better control their disorder with anti-depressants sounds fine, but I hope this doesn't get turned around so that the "treatment" for bullying is to medicate the victim and ignore the actual cause (the actual bully)

Re:The cure for bullying?

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Bingo. Bullying turns people into depressed loners -- wow, that's news.

I was bullied incessantly in elementary school and junior high, and acted, well, pretty much like the "normal" mice. In high school, this changed, but it wasn't because of a knockout gene. It was because I learned to fight back -- a knockout punch instead of a gene, you might say. We don't need more and better antidepressants. We need more instructors who know how to take scared, depressed geeks and turn them into fighters. And more bullies lying bleeding in school hallways spitting out their own teeth.

Maybe I'm just cynical...

[hcob$]

But.... Bullying is what made me the man I am today. I can easily pick out the "bully" in a group and then I can use intelligence, postioning, and execution to cull that person (or personality) from my work environment. It makes my life easier and the workplace easier to go to.

On a side note, if we can treat true depression and PTSD with a gene therapy, GREAT! It will allow Veterans who went through a horrible situation to undo the psych damage and return to a normal life. Same with clinical depression. Remove the behavioral restrictions and open that person up again. I see a much happier world if this actually comes to pass!

Re:Maybe I'm just cynical...

[Mistshadow2k4]

Um... the same thing can often apply with regards to depression, treating the cause rather than the sympton. God knows I went through enough of that when I was a kid. Gee whiz, I need to treat this poor little girl for depression. Wait, could it be her neglectful and abusive parents who make her depressed? Nah, that's pretty unlikely. Let's give her anti-depressants instead.

Clicnical depression - depression without an actual cause - is a separate problem, usually caused by a chemical imbalance. But many cases of depression are symptoms of other problems, and treating the person for depression rather than helping them with said problems isn't going to be very effective. Unfortunately, that's the approach most doctors take. (And a cynical person might note that since their problems aren't going away the doctor continues to make money for treating them.)

They studied the wrong mice...

[Original Replica]

Improved anti-depressant treatments are nice and all, but how about a treatment for the source of the problem: the bully. There are enough cases of kids picked on past the breaking point, that we should learn to focus on treating the cause not the symptoms of social abuse. Give the drugs to the jerks who feel the need to dominate and humliate.

The key to social success in not to care...

[thx1138_az]

I'm a nerd or certainly was for one for sure. A number of years ago I started studying Buddhism (no seriously). One of the more difficult concepts of Buddhism is something called Emptiness. Basically its a philosophy that none of this crap really matters because, well, it does really exist - hence emptiness. At least not in the way we think it does.

It is our attachment to what others think (social status) that causes our unhappiness, shame and embarrassment. So if it doesn't exist then there's nothing to be attached to and nothing to be fearful of. Once I came to deeply realize this I was able to exploit it (OK, it is not what the Buddha had in mind) and achieve a much elevated social status. Even though I don't care about it, it does make my life a little easier.

So the next time someone put you on the spot just shrug your shoulders and say "what ever".

No, we need just and enforceable laws

[Flying pig]

Bullying should be treated in law as what it is - an assault on the person. When the parents of bullies realise that the outcome will be time in juvenile detention for their child and payment of damages by themselves - the problem will start to go away.

Violence that begets violence never ends. Violence that results in financial and social penalties has a limited life span.

Re:No, we need just and enforceable laws

[c6gunner]

Violence that begets violence never ends.

"If the motive is good, and there are no other possibilities, then seen most deeply it (violence) is nonviolence, because its aim is to help others."
---Dalai Lama

It's been proven over and over that standing up to a bully will not only not "beget violence", but will qucikly end the escalation of violence which most bullies use. My own experiene with bullying began when I moved to North America in grade 5. In my home country I was always popular, but after moving I became the new-kid-who-can't-even-speak-english-well. Three bullies picked on me for exactly one week, at which point I had enough. I flipped one of my antagonists on his ass and broke another ones nose, while the third just stood there and watched in shock. After which they all ran away.

Ofcourse, I got suspended for a couple of days, but I never had problems with bullying again.

I don't know about you people...

[Ragnarrokk]

But I choose solitude. Is it not the geeky thing to do? I don't mean, fortifying myself in my room, switching off the lights, and avoiding outside contact with the universe, I mean, generally keeping away from the "ordinary populace".

I'll be honest, normal people annoy me. Perhaps it is elitism, or maybe I just see myself as "different", although that seems to come straight from a book on politically correct speech. I don't like normal people. I don't like interacting with them, not because I fear them, but because they're just SO boring. I don't care about football, or "like, how totally scandalous Sarah's new hairdo" is. Normal people seem shortsighted and keep nothing below the surface, and have an interest in whatever the media and pack mentality pushes on them.

I go to a school for "gifted" children, or supposedly the top ten percent in any case, an English Grammar School, and I was bullied, I really was, but it taught me so much about humans and how society operates. I saw how countless "leaders" of packs coerced and forced others, who I could see did not want to bully me, get pushed into it, and happily tried to apply pain to me, simply to save their own skin, stay popular and not stand up for their own opinions. Over time, I could see them get intoxicated with the power over me and happily coerce others into it. Some people are such simple creatures, that socialising with them would just be boring. The bullying stopped once I just stood up for myself, because, hey, no bully has any real courage when confronted, they enjoy picking on the weakest in the largest possible pack, which they're always attempting to increase in size, after all.

I have friends, but I choose a few good, non-normal friends over the armies of "friends" everyone else has, who are nice to each other simply to save face and not be socially outcast, the worst possible punishment of all.

I would be seen as socially outcast, and perhaps with a "social phobia", but this is all by choice, to avoid people I just don't care about, and I'm not the only one, there are more than a handful in my school. For example, one of my female friends and I were discussing something geeky, along the lines of whether stargates were physically possible, when some girl swanned up to her (because she was female and OBVIOUSLY part of a pack, by standard) and said,
"OOhmigawd, did you see what Gwen Stephanie wore at the MTV awards? I mean, totally disasterous!"
"....I didn't watch it."
"Oh, poor YOU, don't worry, I think it's like, repeating on sunday or something."
"No, I just really don't care about it."
*Girl stands there for a minute, with a half puzzled, half offended look, before spying someone else to go and verbally assualt and rushes off*

Perhaps I'm an extreme, and very pessimistic, but why is avoiding branches of society always seen as an illness? Us geeks and nerds, we tend to make up a large proportion of the excellent minds of humanity, the open minded sector, why is it that they try to "treat" us? We affect humanity more with our research and interests, more than the guy who's going to lay bricks for a living, but is socially accepted ever will? Why not try it the other way around? Why arn't THEY at fault?

I guess for several reasons. People don't like to think they're wrong, and when most people don't want to be wrong, groupthink makes sure they're right, and their society is best. Management likes us to comply. Different thinking people only cause problems, whereas cattlepeople are easy to manage and handle. This works on every level, even some parents would prefer their children to be non geeks and normal, so the punishment of "go to your room, and you're not going out for three days" would actually work. Society also doesn't like splinter cells, they are scary, and different. If they can be forced to comply, the threat is gone, and obviously the status quo. was therefore correct.

I have geeky interests. I have a few close true friends. I like so

Re:False premise

[EccentricAnomaly]

Most parents feel that they would like their children to do better than they have done and not make the same mistakes they have made. Please take the advice of your children's teachers and spend more time focusing on enabling your children to improve on their weaknesses.

or... I could just let my kids grow up to be who they are rather than forcing them do do things that don't fit in their character. My extended family is full of introverts who would rather be alone than the center of attention. There is nothing wrong with being introverted. Quoth Socrates: "Know Thyself"

You can force your kids to 'pad their stats' if you want... and you'll probably teach them to focus on their inadequacies rather than their strengths. My kids will know who they are, and what they like to do.... and they'll be happier, more well-adjusted adults as a result.