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Segway Inventor Turns To Environment

MBCook writes "CNN has an article in which they talk about Dean Kamen's latest inventions designed to provide water to rural villages. His goal is also to provide electricity and opportunities for entrepreneurship. From the article: 'Eighty percent of all the diseases you could name would be wiped out if you just gave people clean water,' says Kamen. 'The water purifier makes 1,000 liters of clean water a day, and we don't care what goes into it. And the power generator makes a kilowatt off of anything that burns.'"

79 of 439 comments (clear)

  1. Rumors by GillBates0 · · Score: 4, Funny
    latest inventions designed to provide water to rural villages.

    The rumormill says this time, "it" will consist of a rider on the segway carrying water bottles for the needy.

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
    1. Re:Rumors by Golias · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No matter how stupid, useless and over-hyped the Segway was, Dean Kamen is still a fucking genius and the closest thing we have to a Thomas Edison in our generation.

      His insulin pump was so brilliant, it looks obvious in hindsight (as the best inventions often do.)

      Even the Segway, which is a silly gadget, makes a sort of sense. He was hoping to make a consumer product which (had it caught on with people) would apply economies of scale to his gyroscopic concepts, which would eventually make his stair-walking wheelchairs cheaper.

      If he wants to turn his mad skillz to the problem of getting clean water to people, I gotta take off my hat.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    2. Re:Rumors by HotNeedleOfInquiry · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't understand all the backlash against the Segway either. I mean, if you want to attack stupid, wasteful and obnoxious vehicles, start with snowmobiles, trail bikes, then work your way to SUV's. The biggest problem with the Segway is that common folk can't afford it. If you could walk into the nearest bike store and take one home for $300, the critics would be drowned in the pool of fans. As it is, it's an attractive anti-yuppie target.

      --
      "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
    3. Re:Rumors by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Insightful
      No matter how stupid, useless and over-hyped the Segway was, Dean Kamen is still a fucking genius and the closest thing we have to a Thomas Edison in our generation.


      Perhaps you mean Tesla:) Edison was more businessman than inventor.....
    4. Re:Rumors by errxn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...and the closest thing we have to a Thomas Edison in our generation.

      Does that mean Kamen's stealing all of his inventions from Nikola Tesla, too?

      --
      In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
    5. Re:Rumors by DavidTC · · Score: 5, Informative
      Anyone making fun of his Segway does need to realize that, and yeah, his wheelchair was fucking brilliant. If you haven't seen it, it's a upright wheel-'chair'.

      People in it are the same height as people who can walk (Thus, he says, elimating a lot of prejudice.) and can go over bumps and up and down stairs. It doesn't take up any more horizontal space than a fat person.

      Think of it as a segway made into a wheeled mech suit for the lower half of your body. And I read somewhere that he planned to slim it down once it caught on, so it would be basically leg braces with wheels at the end. People might come up to you, and you wouldn't even notice their legs aren't moving.

      And this isn't some pipe dream, these things actually work, balancing the same way as the segway, with two wheels on each side, so they can flip forward and move you up or down stairs. They're just too expensive right now. He was hoping to use the same parts as the segway to cut the cost down,but that didn't work out, obviously.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    6. Re:Rumors by British · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The rumormill says this time, "it" will consist of a rider on the segway carrying water bottles for the needy.

      How about instead of just a $100 laptop, a $3 durable, easily fixable bicycle with add-on attchments for trailers? Or make some special type of wheel that, when used by a LOT of people in a common area, it paves a new road for them. Okay, now I'm thinking in Civilization terms(but those roads came in handy).

      Gotta transport that water & stuff somehow.

    7. Re:Rumors by jdray · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Something that offered little more to the user than a good gas powered or electric scooter, yet cost ten times as much.

      Really? Ever price out a Vespa? Sure, the $3,000 price tag on a Segway is way more than it needs to cost for it to be wildly popular (anything under $1000 would make it sell, I think), but it's not a ridiculous price.

      --
      The Spoon
      Updated 6/28/2011
    8. Re:Rumors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Whether Edison stole from Tesla or not, Edison was clearly not in Tesla's league as evidenced by the following inventions by Tesla.
      * The polyphase induction motor
      * The hydroelectric generator
      * Radio
      * X-Rays
      * Vacuum tubes
      * Fluorescent lights
      * Microwaves
      * Radar
      * AC power (both 2-phase and 3-phase)
      * Broadcast power
      * The rotary engine
      * The Tesla Coil

    9. Re:Rumors by ivan256 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the closest thing we have to a Thomas Edison in our generation.

      Edison's skill was not just the creation of novel devices, but the creation of the infrsastructure and market manipulation that went along with making the novel part of his invention a success. In that respect Kamen, smart as he is, is as far from Thomas Edison as you can get.

      You have to be able to do more than invent to be in the same league as Edison.

    10. Re:Rumors by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 2, Informative

      Honda's 'Metropolitan' scooter is less than $2000 (1/2 the price of the Segway), at least twice as fast (depending on weight, possibly even more), and has much greater range.

      Vespa is a premium brand and is priced accordingly - somewhat ironic considering it's heritige.

    11. Re:Rumors by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually $20k is not outrageously priced for an electric wheelchair. (The proper term these days is "power mobility system".)

      Some of the more advanced designs -- regular chair type ones -- that have features like raising and lowering of the seat (so the user can use tables and vanities of different heights) are nearly that expensive. I knew someone who used one like that about 6 years ago, and I think they said it was about $12k. So certainly less than $20k, but not out of reach for a reasonably well-off person who suddenly became disabled.

      That's assuming that you could get your insurance company to pony up the cost in cash of the next least-expensive power chair, which they may not be particularly willing to do. Although they may cover stair-climbing systems now, I'm not sure.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  2. Powered by cow dung! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Finally, a product that's worth a crap!

  3. market to first world countries too! by snooo53 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What he should be doing is marketing this to rural farmers in developed countries. If I lived on a farm with access to the fuel, I would love to have a kilowatt generator for $1000 to supplement my electricity use.

    --
    The sending of this message pretty much inconveniences everyone involved.
    1. Re:market to first world countries too! by chill · · Score: 2, Insightful

      More than likely they'll end up doing this. The more then can sell, the cheaper they'll be to produce. Simple economics of scale. You might not get a $1,000 model, but what about a $2,500 one?

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    2. Re:market to first world countries too! by rossifer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If I lived on a farm with access to the fuel, I would love to have a kilowatt generator for $1000 to supplement my electricity use.

      Put together a long-lived 5kW "any liquid fuel" generator for $1500 right now. Use a Changfa 195 single-cylinder low speed diesel engine coupled to a 5kW ST generator. The motor and generator will run you about $1000 and you'll need couplers, adapters and to build a solid frame for mounting. This is much heavier than the typical Honda generator, but is less expensive, longer lasting (the Honda will last for about 600 hours, this should last for 20,000 to 50,000 hours between rebuilds), highly field maintainable, is quieter (1800 RPM one cylinder instead of 3600 RPM one or two cylinder), and runs on just about any fuel.

      It ought to look a little like one of these rigs when you're done. You could also do a 10kW version using a bigger motor (1115) and generator head for about $2500.

      Assuming we're still talking about farm use, plant cottonseed or rapeseed on 20 acres, buy a cheap oil press ($400, use the same motor and coupling to drive it) and run the genset on the oil. For even lower maintenance and possibly making a little money on the side (but more up front cost), make biodiesel from the oil first.

      Regards,
      Ross

  4. Cow dung? by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The electric generator is powered by an easily-obtained local fuel: cow dung. Each machine continuously outputs a kilowatt of electricity.
    The main advantage of cow dung is that it's considered "carbon neutral". Plus it's a relatively abundant resource in the communities they're talking about. I worry a little about pollution issues, as you likely get a lot of particulates in the air. Small power plants tend to pollute more per power generated than large, centralized ones. Economics of scale and all that.
    1. Re:Cow dung? by NorthDude · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not to be pedantic, even if I may sound so, but what have economics do with the fact that pollution generated by a small power plant is greater then by a big one? I would think that small power plant generate more pollution per watt produced then bigger ones because of efficiency and the physics involved rather then because of economics. But I'm no engineer, so I may well be wrong. Also, if it is carbon neutral, why do we need to worry about CO2 pollution? Isn't the whole "carbon neutral" thing an argument normally used about clean power sources?

      --


      I'd rather be sailing...
    2. Re:Cow dung? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All of this is true, but irrelevant in the face of the fact that big power plants won't be built in these places. You've got a chicken and egg problem there, and these solve some of it.

      A big power plant requires a large base of ready users to make it economically feasible, and if you have a bunch of villages using a couple kilowatts a piece then the power company will take notice. Plus, this primes the villagers to start finding ways that electricity will enhance their lives, making them more likely consumers of large scale electrical delivery.

      The individual devices themselves also aren't as important as the entrepreneurial model behind the delivery of them. Creating jobs and helping keep wealth within these communities is a worthwhile end unto itself. They're right, it will help foster democracy and it will also help drag up the standard of living in those areas.

    3. Re:Cow dung? by timeOday · · Score: 2, Informative
      I worry a little about pollution issues, as you likely get a lot of particulates in the air.
      Compared to the status quo, which is burning the chips in open fires, almost anything should be an improvement.
    4. Re:Cow dung? by maxume · · Score: 2, Informative

      'Economies of scale' is idiomatic (american?)english for the efficiency gains that come with increasing size.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    5. Re:Cow dung? by pingrequest · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't be fooled. They will likely burn this anyway, it is the fuel of choice, especially in rural India.

    6. Re:Cow dung? by kesuki · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Apparently you've never heard of these guys i don't know anything that scales down better than 'microscopic organizims'.

      and keep in mind, that presently these rural places are just burning the dung directly, there have been numerous people trying to get the people to use methane or electric cooking produced from the cow dung instead of cooking directly over the dung, but it's a 'cost' issue. sure there are a few villages here and there that have these kinda systems, but for the most part they were the pet projects of various people who simply couldn't afford to provide the system wide scale.

  5. Err.. by DrEldarion · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And the power generator makes a kilowatt off of anything that burns.'"

    Apparently he's not too concerned about giving them clean air, though.

    1. Re:Err.. by moosesocks · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's part of the price to pay for development.

      Every industrialized nation at some point or another went through a period of dirty industry.

      Also think of it this way.... London today has the highest air quality it's ever had. Think about it.... first you had cooking/heating fires, then you had dirty industry, and now you've got a clean economy. I don't doubt that the rest of the world will eventually go through the same process.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    2. Re:Err.. by johnpaul191 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      the places that will be using these probably have little to no environmental rules and where they do generate power it may just as likely be something like unfiltered coal fired plants and other pollutants. i would also bet you that if you deploy a bunch of these, that given country will pollute less than the United States.

      i realize this is far from ideal, but maybe somebody else can come up with a more environmentally friendly fuel pellet than "whatever you got that will ignite". in the meantime disease and death will be reduced because people can find a clean cup of water.

    3. Re:Err.. by bdaehlie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is London's economy really "clean" or did they just farm out the dirty work? Is the environmental hit just being taken in another part of the world?

  6. That's a lot of cow dung! by 'nother+poster · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Anyone know what the energy density of cow dung is? I assume it takes a few cow patties to fule a sterling engine powered generator that puts out 1kW. Bet it takes a lot more to boil enough dirty water to produce 1000L a day of distilled water.

    1. Re:That's a lot of cow dung! by ploss · · Score: 3, Funny

      Assuming your average patty weighs about 1kg, that would be:

      E = 1kg * c^2, or 9 x 10^16 J.

      So, converted efficiently, you could power the world for a year on 5300 kg of shit. (annual world energy usage = 4.75x10^20 J)

      Maybe he should work on the mass->energy conversion problem instead.

      --
      What are the odds that some idiot will name his mutex ether-rot-mutex!
  7. Second time better? by kawika · · Score: 3, Informative

    Years ago, relief organizations drilled wells in India and Pakistan to provide clean disease-free water to the poor populations. Indeed, it did reduce the levels of illness and was hailed as a public health victory. Unfortunately, it turned out that this underground water had high levels of arsenic that poisoned the people over time. Now they are seeing high levels of skin, lung, liver, kidney and bladder cancer. So let's hope things go better this time.

    1. Re:Second time better? by jandrese · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One thing to keep in mind is the scale of the problem. Did you eliminate 1000 people dying of dysentary to replace them with 10 people dying of cancer a few years down the road? Certainly they need to fix the arsenic problem, but even with it the technology is still a huge win.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    2. Re:Second time better? by cmpalmer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or, in the media and government version, it's easy to lose sight of the overall benefit when focusing on the individuals.

      Sometimes, it may make sense to base policies on cold math rather than the emotional level of individuals. For example, pesticides vs. malaria.

      --
      -- stream of did I lock the front door consciousness
  8. Idea by Bombula · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've had an idea for a while for a solar-powered water condensor. The condensation run off from the window-unit air conditioners in my house generate about 100 liters every 24 hours. Granted, the compressors and fans use a lot of power, but I figure that you could have a big solar panel - maybe 3 or 4 square meters - on top of a 10 foot pole so kids wouldn't mess with it, and you could get several hundred watts out of it. Relatively cheap to make, simple to run, and I've seen these window units run for years without maintenance. Seems like it'd be quite doable, and with a lot less complexity and potential to wear or break than a boiler-driven generator like what Segway Boy has in mind.

    --
    A-Bomb
  9. Kamen back on track. Good. by Animats · · Score: 2, Interesting
    This is a step up for Kamen. He made his money designing medical devices. Medical devices tend to be designed by doctors, and the engineering is typically suboptimal, resulting in bulky, overpriced designs. Kamen's designs were better, which was a big win.

    Kamen's Segway fiasco was a mistake. Now he's back on track.

  10. Maybe Segway 3.0... by green+pizza · · Score: 2, Informative

    If he just leaned that way, wouldn't his platform make the turn for him?

    Forward/Stop/Reverse is controlled by leaning, but steering is controlled by turning the control on the left side of the handlebars. Maybe future Segways will feature lean-stearing.

  11. Re:Only three types of entrepreneur? by Johnboi+Waltune · · Score: 2, Insightful

    * One well-armed team of entrepreneurs to protect the machines from the covetous warlords, militias, kleptocracies, etc. which are the real "pandemic" of the Third World.

    --
    "The advanced societies of the future will be driven by competing systems of psychopathology." -JG Ballard
  12. don't blame him, and he has done much more by johnpaul191 · · Score: 4, Informative

    his company was not responsible for all the hype building up to Segway's release. they have made a ton of incredibly useful inventions and i would think anyone with any interest in technology or engineering would know about his work long before the Segway. inventing a portable insulin pump seems like a pretty valid invention, right? a wheelchair that can climb stairs?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Kamen/
    or
    http://www.dekaresearch.com/

    1. Re:don't blame him, and he has done much more by deacon · · Score: 2, Informative
      his company was not responsible for all the hype building up to Segway's release.

      Bullshit.


      The entire buildup was nothing but hype, from the preannouncment which had no information but "This will change the world!!" to all the idiotic TV "news" shows which had dorks riding Smegs up and down ramps and going in circles.

      All this for a device which appeals to the narcisistic assholes who mow down small children on sidewalks.



      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/11/26/toddler_wo unded_in_segway_hitandrun/

      and then Smeg away.

    2. Re:don't blame him, and he has done much more by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Informative


      By far, these are the coolest Segways to date.

      The one on the right is basically a wheelchair. I saw a thing on TV about it, and the thing can scoot around on 4 wheels, or go upright like a regular Segway on two wheels (like in the picture). The cool thing about it, is that the person in the "chair" can be at eye level with "normal" people.

      The other thing is an offroad version. Both are pretty cool. The regular Segways have no real use in my opinion.

  13. Swell. by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The water purifier makes 1,000 liters of clean water a day, and we don't care what goes into it. And the power generator makes a kilowatt off of anything that burns.

    So now, instead of a village in the Phillipines using relatively clean water that's been percalating through a forested area, they will just burn even more of the trees to power their water cleaners, resulting in even more of this (which surviving local villagers said was due to illegal logging on the surrounding hills). Yes, TFA indicates that it's cow dung that will be burned... but that just means that the wholesome goodness of that dung is not going into agricultural fertilization, which means either shipping in artificial/processed fertilizers, or very inefficiently using more land for grazing and crop production... including cutting into forests (see above).

    Yes, most of us "burn things" for clean water (to extract from a well, or to run a municipal water treatment facility), but things like this at the local level strike me as putting a tiny, tiny bandage on the symptom of a much larger problem. To wit: too many freakin' people in areas not developed enough to sustain them without very poor land use. I mean... a kilowatt? Between solar, and perhaps some of the village kids taking turns in a big hamster wheel, you could do that without burning more stuff. And, for someone who included the notion of improving the "leisure time" of poor villagers, he's not thinking too clearly about the delightful aroma that comes with 24x7 burning of cow dung.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    1. Re:Swell. by pingrequest · · Score: 2, Insightful

      RTA. His test case was India where cow dung is already and largely used for fuel. This is a simple repurposing of an existing fuel that is already being burnt. The water unit would obviously not be distributed to areas with adequate water supplies... I find your arguments narrow to say the least. To address the broader issue though, Kamen is attempting to start from the ground up, rather than the top down. Some may find this objectionable, but I personally I think it is the right mix between technology, economic and environmental impact. Putting the power literally in the hands of the villagers.

    2. Re:Swell. by Ugmo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This kind of comment makes me angry. No matter what people try to do there is something wrong with it.

      First, burning cow dung and other manure is a common practice throughtout the world. It is happening already. Now at least more people can get electricity from it instead of just heat and cooking.

      A good thing about cow dung is that it is renewable. It is produced mostly through cows grazing on grass which grows back quickly. The CO2 that is produced will be used by that grass, a closed cycle, not like fossil fuels that add old carbon that had been in the ground for millions of years.The ash that is left over still has some utility as a fertilizer. And as I said before, it was probably already destined to be burned anyway for heat or cooking.

      Now, to start complaining about things the parent post did not say and probably doesn't have a problem with but the parent post reminds me of similiar posts in the past from other people.

      When Negroponte came up with the sub- $100 laptop idea everyone started bitching that what developing countries really need is clean water and cheap electricty. Now someone bitches about another person trying to solve that problem.

      They say we shouldn't burn things for electricity. Use Solar power. Then someone will bitch that manufacturing solar cells uses energy and creates pollution so we should not make solar cells.

      We want to reduce foreign imported oil, so someone suggests ethanol and people say that it uses natural gas and almost as much energy to create it than it delivers. Well it is true that the ferilizer to grow the corn uses chemicals derived from oil but beyond that the natural gas is just used to produce heat to create the alcohol. Anything other than natural gas can be substituted but right now natural gas is cheapest. If we wanted we could use cow manure or the alcohol that is created in the process. Ultimately we could eliminate any foreign oil or other fossil fuels from the process of creating the alcohol it is just for now it is cheaper not to.

      Pretty much any solution to an energy problem gets bitched at. Hydoelectric dams rivers and hurts the fishies. Solar produce pollution during manufacture and is too expensive. Nuclear created radiactive waste. Wind generators are an eyesore, kill birds and make wooshing noises. Renewable resources like trees should not be cut down (even if they are farmed trees). It goes on and on.

      There was a story here on slashdot about Bermuda using a generator sunk in the ocean running off the atlantic current. Some guy bitched that it would steal energy from the current and cause Europe to cool off.

      I guess there is some part of human nature that wants to scream that humans are bad just for existing. It used to be a ignorant religious puritanical thing but more and more I hear it from the environmental granola crunchie types. Human beings and technology are bad. Anything we do is bad. Raising the standard of living of human beings is a bad goal.

      The truth is that when people's standard of living goes up, their birth rate goes down. People in third world countries have 15 kids because due to water born diseases 8 or 10 of those will die before they finish growing up. The parents hope the rest will bring in some income by working. If we provide clean water, income and a higher standard of living (things this project is supposed to supply) then the birth rate will go down and the overall burden on the ecosystem will lessen. We should not keep attacking the people who try to fix these problems. We should spend our energy producing a better solution if their solutions are not good enough.

    3. Re:Swell. by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This kind of comment makes me angry. No matter what people try to do there is something wrong with it.

      Well, that's a bit of a generalization. I don't have a problem with anything, let alone "no matter what" is tried to improve situations like rural poverty in the third world. What I do have a problem with are "solutions" that merely treat the symptoms and actually perpetuate the underlying problem: too many people too inefficiently using too much land. Vast tracts of Africa and Asia (hell, and Central and South America) are being positively destroyed by cheesy farming techniques that don't scale up well from tiny tribal populations. And you can't inject high-tech, high-efficiency farming (and the supporting businesses and investments) into those places as long as they are politcally corrupt and completely unstable. That is the problem, and when you do something about that, you're really working to improve the lives of people in those regions and reduce the clumsy, permanent damage to the environment in which they live.

      A 70-watt light bulb illuminating a large, poor, rural family's hut in the middle of the night is just lighting up a large, poor, rural family. When the sun comes up, they'll still be deforesting land to poorly graze cattle and use up topsoil with one lousy crop. Why? Because the science and technology that they could be using (thus better using the land, and reducing the pressure to have 10 kids to work that land) cannot take root in places where shipments are hijacked by local gangs and the locals have been told (by twits) that the engineered crops that use less water and resist pests are the work of Satan, etc. Democracy, a flexible market, and rule of law, once established and maintained, attract investment, equipment, and positive change faster than any 1-kilowatt cowdung generator will ever do.

      Just look at countries like Cameroon. Booming cities, high tech farms, cell phones and newer-tech vehicles in wide use... why? Because the thugs that keep things primitive were finally put out of business. And doing that elsewhere takes a lot more work (and courage) than distributing 70-watt lightbulbs throughout a village, but it makes true, real, long-lasting changes that impact everyone.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    4. Re:Swell. by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm sorry, but this strikes me as a horribly insensitive comment. While there may be lots of people in the world, and economic growth may be the best engine for improving overall welfare, this borderline victim-blaming crosses the line. If only we could have fewer of those poor, inefficient people, the world would be a happier place?

      Oh, please. It was survivors of the mudslide who said that the logging in the hills above their village is what caused the mudslide. That's not victim-blaming, that's quoting the people who said that they knew exactly what happened, and why. And yes, fewer poor, inefficient people does make the world a happier place. And you don't get that by stringing up 70-watt light bulbs (one per house! hoooo-wee!)... you get those by helping those people get themselves out of that condition - and it's all economics.

      was a time when more text messages were being exchanged in the Philippines than anywhere else in the world.

      Are you seriously suggesting that the 1500 people now buried under that mud are all buried with their cellphones? Just because downtown Manila is very well wired (and wireless) doesn't mean that the outlying islands are all up to speed. I cited that example, today, because the disaster in Leyte is an up-to-the-moment example of the consequences of really inefficient land use in a poor rural area. Portable power and water treatment are probably going to be a lot more appreciated in parts of the subcontinent and in Africa... but again, it's just a tiny symptom treatment.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  14. Re:Hate to say it... by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe, maybe not, but look at his other work before deciding.
    If Benjerman Franklin was only considered for his stove*, he would be considered a failure.

    While they work extremely well if kept stoked, once they began to cool a little, they got extremely smokey. Meaning they weren't practical.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  15. Make fun of him all you want for the Segway by mdarksbane · · Score: 4, Informative

    But these sorts of projects are what the guy actually cares about.

    After he made his initial fortune (in medical devices) he started up an organization called FIRST, designed to get more smart kids interested in engineering, and to help our culture value problem solving more than drama. Since then the organization has grown to include thousands of teams, tens of thousands of high schoolers in countries all around the world.

    I've been working with one of those teams for three years, and every year Kamen stands up and gives a speech, not about how much fun we're going to have building robots, but about his vision for what we can do to solve these sort of engineering problems, to bring clean water to those who need it, etc. He's done a lot of good work, aside from his kind of whacky human transport device, and for all that his speeches are about as depressing and boring as you can get, it's very clear that this is where his heart is. He's put a ton of money and effort into getting people into engineering so that some day if he can't solve these sorts of problem someone will.

    And for as bored as I am every time I have to sit through him talking about it, I can admire that. This is about things a lot more important than a goofy looking scooter.

  16. Re:This is old news by flyingsquid · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Cold fusion is not really a good analogy. Water purification and power generation are certainly possible, the question is applying the technology in a cost-effective fashion and then figuring out a way to implement it.

    I'm usually skeptical of a lot of efforts to solve poverty through technology- but this is definitely headed in the right direction. In my opinion, the most pressing needs in the developing world are the most basic ones: clean water, food, medical care, roads, electricity, basic literacy. Laptops or whatever are way down on the list because their potential payoff is relatively small compared to their cost. Things like clean water and cheap electricity could have big payoffs with relatively little investment; if you're suffering from less disease your productivity will go up, if you have light in the evening your kids can do their homework and the parents can do more work.

    Whether or not he's got the solution, he's at least got the right problems.

  17. The slippery slope by TheCrayfish · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From TFA: A satellite picture of the earth at night shows swaths of darkness across Southeast Asia, the Middle East, and Africa. For the people living there, a simple light bulb would mean an extension of both their productivity and their leisure times. -- Yes, and then it's all downhill from there: first light bulbs, then telephones for telemarketers to call, televisions for advertisers to stuff with their ads all aglow, microwave ovens to provide late-night high-fat carbohydrate-laden heart sludge, personal computers from which to have one's identity stolen, not to mention thirty-five clocks to set forward every Spring, etc. I hope these people who have lived in the beautiful nighttime darkness for so long know what they're getting themselves into.

  18. Segway = consumer iBot (wheelchair) by green+pizza · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Segway is just a basic, two-wheel version of his iBot wheelchair. You know, the wheelchair that can climb stairs and raise the user up high enough to talk to standing adults? The wheelchair that's based on all of the inventions that made the Segway possible.

    Segway isn't a fiasco, it's an overhyped consumer toy. He probably makes a handsome profit from it.

  19. Learn the subject matter by NetRAVEN5000 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    "Someone remind me, is this the same guy who used a gyroscope with a 60 Hz sampling rate for stability rather than, I don't know, a third wheel?"

    Yes.

    And now I ask you - what good would a third wheel do for a wheelchair that climbs stairs? Especially when it already has more than three wheels.

    The gyroscope was so that the chair would stay level when it had to go up on its hind wheels to climb the stairs.

    1. Re:Learn the subject matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, as a power wheelchair user and judging from reviews I read, the biggest feature of the chair is the ability to stand on two wheels, high above the ground. The gyroscopes are also used for this.

      This makes for some descent eye to eye communication with all the "standing" people. (yeah! YOU!) Speaking to someone while they are 3 feet above you is just not practical, you constantly have to "shout" and stare upward - very frustrating and tiring.

      You can also use this feature to reach things, say a cup in a cupboard in the kitchen. Or an item on a shelf in the supermarket. I've seen people break down and cry as they use that feature, they realize how easier/pleasant it is to be able to stand up.

      More and more public transport and buildings are wheelchair friendly, thus you won't have to use the "stair climbing feature" very often. And when you do use it, you need someone around in case of any problems or assist you.

      I definitely want to have this wheelchair one day, it is about 30K USD at the moment. I don't quite like their design decisions when it comes to ergonomy, normal power wheelchair manufacturers are far ahead when it comes to that.

      The second edition of the chair is out already, I'll give them a few years, eventually they should come out with a cheaper/more ergonomic model.

  20. You're being too literal by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 3, Informative
    He was probably thinking of the bacterial stuff: cholera, typhoid fever, dysentery, etc. And then there's the parasites. "Disease" can be a vague term.

    Water-borne diseases are a HUGE problem in the third world. Seriously, they have *fatal* diarrhea, and I'm not saying that to be funny.

  21. Speaking of farms by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This would be fucking great for fish farms.

    Fisheries generate a lot of crap-filled water that generally gets pumped into (and pollutes) a local river.

    Of course, this guy's invention would have to be scaled waaaaay up for farmers of any kind in the 1st world, since they have enormous plots of land compared to most farms in 3rd world & developing countries.

    Still, Kudos to him, because he's right. Finding potable water is actually a greater problem than access to food in most of the 3rd world. However, the second you increase survival rates in those developing countries, you create a host of other problems as the population increases.

    Countries are like ecosystems, once you fiddle with one variable, you usually have to deal with a rash of unintended consequences.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:Speaking of farms by sisina · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the second you increase survival rates in those developing countries, you create a host of other problems as the population increases

      It seems like higher child survival rates would lead to population increases, but it often works the other way, because fertility preferences change along with survival rates. Say you need four kids to help on the farm. In developed countries, you have four kids. In areas with high infant and child mortality rates, you have eight kids, because who knows how many of them will live long enough to be economically useful.

  22. Re:Only three types of entrepreneur? by NaruVonWilkins · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What's very interesting about village microloans is the extremely low rate of default. When you have a group of people involved in ensuring that a loan is repaid, especially in small matriarchal societies, you end up with as little as a 5% default rate.

  23. Re:I was thinking about this the other day by tinkerghost · · Score: 5, Informative

    Nice idea but boiling water (100C/212F) won't kill most bacteria in 5 minutes.
    Steralizing is usually done via steam at 2atm( 250-275F IIRC) for 15 minutes. Plus it doesn't remove contaminants. Mud + heat = dryer mud.
    Most of the water purification systems use either an evaporation/condensation cycle or reverse osmosis through a semi-permiable membrane.
    Of the 2, evap/cond is both more reliable and more scaleable. As a bonus, you can literally do it with 2 coconuts and a banana leaf.

  24. Re:i remember by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Just because the Segway wasn't commercially successful, that doesn't mean it wasn't a good invention. Dean's problem was trying to replace cars with Segways. The Segway is designed to replace walking, though, not driving, according to its speed and the fact that it offers no protection from harsh weather or poor road conditions. The idea of marketing the Segway to the Postal Service was a good one, though it had that one design flaw (the Segway toppling over when the battery runs out) which could be fixed pretty easily, if Dean wants to re-release the product. Anyway, the Segway appears to be successful in Japan, where they replaced everything above the platform and it's remote controlled: http://wiredblogs.tripod.com/gadgets/index.blog?en try_id=1298966

  25. basic water filtering info here by drwho · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's been fifteen years since I was in the water treatment business, but I doubt any of the fundamentals have changed.

    Here's how it works: You mix a chemical called a 'flocculant' in with the water, which has been roughly filtered and perhaps let sit for a while to let any silt settle. This water is then mixed with air under high pressure, and pumped into tanks, entering halfway between the bottom and top of the tank with as little turbulence as possible. Because of the decrease in pressure, air bubbled form, and the flocculants cause small particles (bacteria, shit, uranium) to stick to them. The bubbles then gradually float to the surface, where the 'suds' or 'scum' is skimmed off, again with a minimal amount of turbulence. After enough of this happens, the water is then called clean and sucked out and wasted on fertilizing laws.

    Generally, this is done on a continuous basis, and the equipment is a big, round vat. The ones I knew were from 5 to 23 meters in diameter. There's some real issues that make this process a bit more tricky than the description above would make it seem:

    1) raw water is not produced, nor clean water consumed, at uniform rates. However, the filtering equipment works correctly at a very small flow/pressure. Holding tanks on either side are neccessary.

    2) Flocculant is a consumable, and it takes a certain amount to clean a given volume of water to a certain improvement. Costs money.

    3) water is not uniformly dirty.

    4) generally, the larger units can let water stay and bubbles float (and grit sink to the bottom) longer, so less flocculant is needed. But these take up more space...LOTS more.

    5) How clean does water really need to be? If there's some nasty outbreak (Cholera, Giardia) maybe it needs to be much cleaner. Maybe not so much at other times. Who makes that decision? My thoughts are that tap water should only be cleaned to a certain percent, which can be used for lawns / car-washes / firefighting / pools, cleaned a bit further for household uses (laundry, bathing) by an in-home filter, and cleaned further for drinking by a tap-based carbon filter (Brita, etc). But this is a lot of equipment. Real serious policy issues here. I doubt that such a poor and corrupt country as Bangladesh can handle these problems correctly. But hey, I guess eomthing is worth a try.

  26. If it only... by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 3, Funny
    And the power generator makes a kilowatt off of anything that burns.

    If he can get it to run off of old AOL CDs the power problem is solved for all of us.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  27. The most pressing need in the developing world by Xonstantine · · Score: 2, Insightful

    is good governance and a lot less corruption. A lot of those other things would take care of themselves if you took care of the first two. And without it, you're not going to get the other things. Look at Zimbabwe. Used to be the largest net exporter of food in Africa. Corruption, mismanagement, and ethnic violence by the indigenous blacks against white farmers have turned the place into a pauper's paradise, complete with famine and babies being thrown into sewers.

    As for roads, they used aid money to build roads in the Congo. Nobody uses them (for the most part). They use the bush trails. Same thing with schools.

    Until you (or they) solve the tribalism and corruption issues in the development world, all we are doing is throwing good money after bad in offering up "solutions".

    What will happen when you magically solve the clean water, food, and medical care issues in the developing world? Population explosion even worse than they are experiencing today, without the social revolutions that preceeded and enabled the developed world's evolution. And at the end of the line, population crash, and more misguided intervention on the part of the developed world.

    1. Re:The most pressing need in the developing world by Valdrax · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mugabe gets all of his support from uneducated rural people, while city people consistently vote for the opposition. As long as Mugabe can promise farms for landless people and keep his majority base from trusting anyone else, he will stay in power.

      If those rural people had electricity and water, they might have the ability to hear dissenting views over the radio that they can't hear right now. People living in abject poverty are a lot more willing to surrender power than the middle class and the wealthy. Look at the collapse of every democracy since the beginning of the 20th century -- they all had to do with selling the poor on promises of a stronger nation if they only surrendered themselves to the state. The impoverishment of a people is one of the first steps towards totalitarianism, whether it be communism or fascism.

      I'm not worried about a population explosion in Africa. It will last at most a century before Africa becomes subject to the lowered birth rates of every other industrialized nation. Just look at the United States 100 years ago. I'll bet your grandparents had a LOT more siblings than you do.

      Corruption and tribalism are the worst problems facing Africa, but they cannot disappear until they are connected with the rest of the world, and that requires technology. Barriers to trade and contact with the outside world foment extremism and allow gatekeepers to wealth. Until we get Africa "on the grid," we can't expect the people to take steps to stop the sort of behavior our own nations were guilty of only 100 years ago.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  28. Stirling engines by Flying+pig · · Score: 2, Insightful
    WhisperGen already make space heaters with approx 1kW electricity output, but they are many times too expensive. Faced with a choice between a £10000 ($18000) WhisperGen and a £500 Dickinson oil stove plus a £500 Honda generator - no brainer time, especially when you figure in the installation costs.

    If this particular Stirling engine design is capable of being made in volume at a sensible price and is not simply an over-priced toy for rich yacht owners like the WhisperGen, it deserves to succeed.

    One reason it might just is crime. You could make a perfectly adequate generator for a village using standard technology, but it would get stolen in no time. A washing machine sized design is going to be much harder to steal.

    However, as with many alternative technologies, the likely problem is going to be seals. Seals have been the problem with Stirling engines in the past (and are the continuing problem with the Wankel.)

    --
    Pining for the fjords
    1. Re:Stirling engines by GungaDan · · Score: 3, Funny

      Seals, eh? I would've suspected aardvarks. Damned nosy bastards.

      --
      Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
  29. Re:The Purpose? by cmpalmer · · Score: 3, Informative

    You know, everything American isn't bad. When 100% of your time is taken up by trying to produce enough food and shelter to keep you alive, it doesn't leave a hell of lot of time for inventing, creating, and enjoying life. Are you sitting in a shack with no electricity exhausted from a day of backbreaking work on a sustenance farm drinking brown water and hoping you'll live long enough to see your kids grow up?

    --
    -- stream of did I lock the front door consciousness
  30. The Segway was useless and overhyped. by Valdrax · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The big problem with the Segway was the hype, not the merits of device itself. When Jeff Bezos said that he could see cities being redesigned around the thing, we all thought that it had to be something revolutionary and amazing that would lead us all to change.

    What he really seems to have meant was that for the device to sell, cities would have to be redesigned first. It's too heavy, fast, and unmaneuverable to ue on sidewalks, and it's too slow, unprotected, and unmaneuverable to use on streets. In essence, for the Segway to work, there'd have to be a completely new set of lanes for it. Additionally, it has all the problems of not protecting against the elements or having cargo space that prevent it from truly replacing cars. It's also far too expensive for the average person to justify the limited utility.

    To sum up, it costs too much and can't be used in a majority of outdoor situations. It was overhyped when it had commercial flop written all over it. The Segway was brilliant example of promising the world and delivering nothing.

    Snowmobiles and trail bikes at least have thrill-seeking element that the 12.5 MPH, no off-roading Segway did not.

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  31. Not just high school by Shag · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The LEGO Mindstorms beloved to so many Slashdotters are used by 9-14 year olds (basically grades 4-8) in the FIRST LEGO League International, which has participants in almost 2 dozen countries.

    And since last year, within the US they've been piloting a "Junior FIRST LEGO League" for ages 6-9. I just found out about it, and my daughter's in that age range... bet she'll be happy to hear. :)

    --
    Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
  32. Water and Electricity? by Shag · · Score: 2, Funny

    FTA: Inventor Dean Kamen wants to put entrepreneurs to work bringing water and electricity to the world's poor.

    But... but... doesn't he realize that when you mix water and electricity, people get electrocuted?

    --
    Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
  33. Pipes are expensive by Valdrax · · Score: 2, Insightful

    All jokes aside, pipes from central plants are a LOT more expensive than locally created potable water. A 2" diameter PVC pipe costs a little over $2/foot. That's over $10K per mile. Now add the cost of burying the pipe or otherwise securing it from harm.

    Kamen's idea is better.

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  34. Warning: skepticism ahead by benjamindees · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The condensation run off from the window-unit air conditioners in my house generate about 100 liters every 24 hours.

    First of all, I'm calling bullshit on this. Either you live in a swamp, or there's something wrong with your air conditioner. Buy a new one and save the world 1kWh/day instead of producing distilled water with electricity.

    Secondly, you realize you're advocating air conditioning as a means of water purification for undeveloped nations? That's just goofy.

    Then you say a "3 or 4 square meter" solar panel is "cheap to make". And, assuming such a thing would even run a single air conditioner, you'd need one for, say, every two African villagers. Let's say this contraption costs $2000, which is a conservative figure. To outfit 100 million Africans, you're talking about $100 billion. And then of course who knows how long the things will last and whether they will be immediately confiscated by warlords and diverted to people who are actually productive enough to afford solar panels.

    So, by now we've gotten to the point where you've completely lost your mind. As further evidence, "with a lot less complexity... than a boiler-driven generator". Umm, okay.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  35. Sounds familiar by ben_white · · Score: 2, Insightful
    ... If the numbers work out, not only does he think that distributing them in a decentralized fashion will be good business -- he also thinks it will be good public policy. Instead of putting up a 500-megawatt power plant in a developing country, he argues, it would be much better to place 500,000 one-kilowatt power plants in villages all over the place, because then you would create 500,000 entrepreneurs.
    This is the model that built the wealth of 20th century America. It works, and is an efficient distributor of wealth. The effects of corruption and mismanagement are mitigated by the fact that the process as a whole is distributed. Since profits are distributed throughout the country, they are reinvested back into local communities, creating local economies that over time become more and more self-sustaining.

    The late 20th century reversal of this process is being played out in the American economy (as well as other industrialized countries worldwide). Local entrepreneurs are being pushed and bought out of business by large concerns (i.e. national and multi-national corporations). The economy of scale and polical clout of these giants are impossible to compete with effectively for most small, individual run businesses. The effect is to drain profit out of local economies and into a much larger scale economy. This robs resources from local-scale economies, and makes them less self-sustaining. Overall the economic engine seems to be running better, but fewer people benefit. The resultant concentration of resources eventually make such systems unstable.

    The idea outlined in the article is brillant. I suspect, though, it will never come to pass. Not because it won't work, but because it will work. As soon as small scale success begins to be seen, larger concerns will interrupt the process, buying out the local entrepreneurs, and concentrating production and profit where it is subject to corruption and incompetence.

    --
    cheers, ben

    Never miss a good chance to shut up -- Will Rogers
  36. A better idea by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 2, Interesting

    tap water should only be cleaned to a certain percent, which can be used for lawns / car-washes / firefighting / pools, cleaned a bit further for household uses (laundry, bathing) by an in-home filter, and cleaned further for drinking by a tap-based carbon filter (Brita, etc). But this is a lot of equipment.

    I'm sure that due to economies of scale, the water utility can purify a given amount of water more efficiently than I can. (Those Brita filters are expensive!) So here's a better idea:

    Run two pipes to every home. The big pipe carries minimally-cleaned water, and the small pipe carries water purified to human consumption standards. The lawn sprinkler system uses water straight out of the big pipe. For laundry and bathing, use a blend of, say, 70% from the big pipe and 30% from the small pipe.

    It's kind of like how Sunoco stations used to sell about six different grades of gasoline. There were only two tanks in the ground, and the pump mixed the top-shelf stuff with the base stuff to achieve the desired octane.

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
  37. Desalination by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    TFA says, "The Slingshot works by taking in contaminated water - even raw sewage -- and separating out the clean water by vaporizing it." If it vaporizes the water, couldn't it also be used to desalinate seawater? That would be a boon for poor dry coastal villages, like in Baja California.

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
  38. Finally, a use for my cat by shrtcircuit · · Score: 2, Funny

    If he can make one of those cheap generators run on feline poo, I'm buying one! My cat craps more than any living thing I've ever seen. And judging by the near-nuclear potency of whatever comes out of that cat's ass, I'd say I should be able to power my house for quite a while!

  39. micro-capitalism by peter303 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Reaching out to poor rural villages where 2/3rds of humanity lives is an admirable goal.

    I've been reading that micro-loans, (micro-banks, micro- capitalism) is having a revolutionary effect in some of these villages too. The concept is to lend a small amount of money e.g. $50 to $200 to someone who would could not save that much money beforehand or a bank would find too much trouble to deal with. With that small amount of money the borrower buys some device like a peddle sewing machine, an irrigation pump, a kiln, etc. and improves their business. Early results are the entreupeneurs improve their incomes by an order magnitude. And the loan default rate is no worse than for a middle-class urban borrower. These micro-loans are really growing the rural economies where they are availble.

  40. The problem is solved already, Dean Kamen! by FFFish · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Biosand Filter.

    Cost - about thirty bucks.
    Technology - rudimentary.
    Efficiency - "Overall, these studies have shown that the Biosand filter removes:
    More than 90% of fecal coliform; 100% of protozoa and helminths; 50-90% of organic and inorganic toxicants; 95-99% of zinc, copper, cadmium and lead; 67% of iron and manganese; 47% of arsenic; all suspended sediments" (So it's not going to help with that arsenic-tainted water in India.)

    IMO, there is no better filtration system. Cheap, low-tech, highly effective against the most common pathogens -- why should we be using anything else?!

    --

    --
    Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
  41. Sludge...???...Profit!!! by LunaticTippy · · Score: 2, Informative
    Crap-sludge is worth money as fertilizer, plus if dried completely you can burn it.

    OT...I dump turtleshit-laden pondwater on part of my yard, and the plants there have exploded with lush growth. My friends joke that I should bottle and sell it.

    I'm gonna need more turtles.

    --
    Man, you really need that seminar!
  42. Re:Cost/benefit may rule it out here by Forbman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In some ways, first-world farmers are efficient (or at least, productive). The production outputs by one farmer these days is pretty amazing, compared to even 30 years ago. But it sucks up a LOT of energy resources. There is a swing in some areas to methods that take fewer inputs, yet receive the same or nearly the same production outputs that "traditional" methods use. No-till seed drilling, dual-cropping, etc are some of the ways to it.

    For those who question it, have you ever seen pictures from when wheat was harvested with horse-drawn equipment? Lessee... 40-horse team was not uncommon, a crew to run the steam engine and thresher, where to put the mountain of straw? Lots of work for teenage boys stacking sacks of grain. It used to be a MAJOR endeavor. Now 4 or 5 combine drivers, a couple of tractors to pull grain wagons around, and a couple of trucks to take grain to the driers or silos, and 1000 acres/day harvested is not impossible.

    Where I live (Willamette Valley, OR) is the major rye and fescue grass seed production areas in the US. Some of the methods people use require LOTS of work, yet my neighbor, who is big into no-till, does just fine with his no-till drill (he does a lot of custom no-till planting, too), plus doesn't spend a lot of time in the fall and spring removing cover crop or stubble, prepping the soil (plowing, discing, pulverizing, smoothing), etc. His no-till drill just sticks the seed right in. Sure, no-till is not for every crop, but it works well for grass.

    He doesn't have a lot of bare fields this year, which is kind of luck of the draw given the rains here this winter. But other farmers, who have hundreds of acres of bare or fall-planted fields right now where the seed is just now starting to germinate (and don't do no-till), have suffered some pretty significant soil erosion this winter. Kind of sad, realizing all the topsoil that has been washed into the rivers. Plus, there is all the topsoil they convert into dust in the summer and fall, too.

    Dairy farms are more and more starting to either make biogas generators (i.e., covering up the manure pits and piping the gas into compressors and burning it in generators. Makes sense if you've ever driven past an open manure pit on a hot summer day) or other equipment that rapidly breaks down the manure into water and solid products. But this equipment costs some pretty good coin.

    yes, some of these equipment installations are because of environmental concerns of either waste water leaking into groundwater supplies or air quality concerns, but still... some of this is being done.

    the average feedlot, however, probably is not into this as much. If you have enough manure volume, yes, there is a smallish side market of processing the manure pile into mulch or compost, but that's about it. Except for some special product areas (zoo poop, pelletized poultry waste), it's pretty low margin, so you need a lot of manure to make a go of it. it's pretty seasonal, too. Some environmental concerns are driving this kind of equipmentop,l for other livestock production as well (poultry, pork).

    Me and my 30 or so sheep? Well, the sheep poop is good for the pasture. As long as I'm not taking the sheep off and putting them in someone's freeezers, it is a relatively closed loop as far as my pastures go (I don't need to fertilize a lot!).

  43. Re:Needs by Xonstantine · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Good governance is a side-effect of affluence

    Cart before the horse, I'm afraid. Wealth doesn't buy good governance. Example, the Middle East nations that contain a good deal of the world's oil. Good governance can, however, create wealth. Example, South Korea. In 1954, it was one of the poorest nations in the world, on par with the poorest in Africa. Today, it's a first world nation with the world's 12th largest economy. Democratization, in the case of South Korea, proceeded slowly, but good governance, and the sociological factors were there in 1954, and wealth followed

    It was when the European middle-class began to develop that democracy began to sprout in Europe.

    Um, no. The Magna Carta didn't come about because a bunch of burghers were pressing for their rights. It was a squabble between rich nobles and an even richer king. And yet, it's one of the most significant democratizing documents in human history. And has absolutely nothing to do with a middle class.

    Another significant democratizing influences were things like the Protestant Reformation. Again, had nothing to do with the middle class. Once you have a group of people with some free time on their hands, they can start hassling their government, getting involved in politics, giving money to the right people to fund the right initiatives, etcetera.

    Affluence breeds democracy, and democracy preserves affluence. A quick look at the history of the US should demonstrate that to you.


    Absurd, and obviously false given the facts.

    You seem to think it's like a recipe. Have some wealth, bake for a period, and voila! Democracy! Good government! Um, no. The Roman Empire had a large, vibrant middle class for much of it's history, enabled by good governance..and, ultimately, grinded down to serfdom by bad. For the first 100 years, most people in the United States were essentially peasant farmers. The difference between a peasant farmer who owned his land in Pennsylvania as opposed to a peasant farmer who "owned" his land in Africa, however, were little things like established property rights, the rule of law, and a well functioning government. Take out the rule of law, and a well functioning government and the US would not have made it this far.

    Good governance preserves and builds wealth, and bad governance destroys it. Affluence, in and of itself, does nothing positive. A good example of this is looking at the result of windfalls, either at an individual level or a national level. On an individual level, look at lottery winners. Or a national level, look at what happened to Spain and its New World fortune. Squandered. Or Saudi Arabia's oil wealth. It's in the process of being squandered. And again compare them to South Korea. South Korea had good governance before they had wealth.

    Good governance, btw, isn't the same thing as democracy. You can have a poorly run democracy (which won't last, of course), and a well run autocracy. South Korea, for much of it's history, was a well run autocracy.

    Wealth will not be built and sustained in the developing world until those countries build a culture and society that is capable of sustaining a well run government first. The last and only experience most of these countries have with that is, unfortunately, the colonial administrations that ruled over them briefly in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

  44. Back to the topic of cheap Sterling engines- info by Savantissimo · · Score: 4, Informative
    From the CNN article: "Kamen's goal is to produce machines that cost $1,000 to $2,000 each. That's a far cry from the $100,000 that each hand-machined prototype cost to build."

    This has always been the trouble with Stirling engines. They seem simple until you actually try to make one that outputs a usable amount of power at some reasonable efficiency that doesn't cost a fortune. Many people have tried over the centuries, but so far it's always been a matter of picking which two of the three goals you want to fulfill. Dean Kamen has a nontrivial challenge ahead in trying for the Sterling hat-trick.

    Don Lancaster's Blatant Opportunist #32

    One way to avoid bad engineering is to stay away from energy sinks into which bunches of time and money have previously been dumped with no visible effect. I like to call these engineering ratholes. Let's look at a few of the more popular examples coming over my voice helpline...

    Stirling engines- Every few years somebody rediscovers the Stirling engine. They build a few prototypes which just barely fail to work, and then just barely go bankrupt. The promise here sure is enticing. A low delta-T engine which accepts anything from oily rags to sunlight. But there's two fundamental gotchas here. First, any engine designed for a low DT temperature differential is inherently inefficient. Carnot and all. More crucially, there is a key component to a Stirling engine that nobody - but nobody - has figured out how to build yet. It is called a regenerator. Any regenerator has to be long and thin and short and fat. Not to mention being an excellent insulator and a superb conductor.

    [Also see Hardware Hacker May, 1993 http://www.tinaja.com/glib/hack64.pdf for everything you ever forgot about heat engines and thermodynamics.]

    Wikipedia - Problems with Stirling Engines:

    Stirling engines require both input and output heat exchangers which must contain the pressure of the working fluid, and which must resist any corrosive effects due to the heat source. These increase the cost of the engine especially when they are designed to the high level of "effectiveness" (heat exchanger efficiency) needed for optimizing fuel economy.
    Stirling engines, especially the type that run on small temperature differentials, are quite large for the amount of power that they produce, due to the heat exchangers. ...
    Power output of a Stirling is constant and hard to change rapidly from one level to another. Typically, changes in output are achieved by varying the displacement of the engine (often through use of a swashplate crankshaft arrangement) or by changing the mass of entrained working fluid (generally helium or hydrogen). This property is less of a drawback in hybrid electric propulsion or base load utility generation.
    Hydrogen's lowest molecular weight makes it the best working gas to use in a Stirling engine, but as a tiny molecule, it is very hard to keep it inside the engine and auxiliary systems need to be typically added to maintain the proper quantity of working fluid. These systems can be as simple as a gas storage bottle or more complicated such as a gas generator. In any event, they add weight, increase cost, and introduce some undesirable complications.

    U.S. Patents:

    6,862,883 Kamen, et al. Regenerator for a Stirling engine

    A regenerator for a thermal cycle engine and methods for its manufacture. The regenerator has a random network of fibers formed to fill a specified volume and a material for cross-linking the fibers at points of close contact between fibers of the network. A method for manufacturing a regenerator has steps of providing a length

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