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Infamous Emails Don't Always Kill Careers

Carl Bialik from the WSJ writes "Those oft-forwarded email gaffes don't always lead to career meltdowns for the ashamed senders, Jared Sandberg writes in the Wall Street Journal. In some corners of the business world, preserving a reputation can be less important than acquiring one in the first place. For instance, the 2003 legal summer associate who accidentally emailed 40 colleagues to announce he was 'busy doing jack' ended up getting a job at the firm. More recently, the young woman who told off a lawyer offering her a job -- and saw her email forwarded worldwide -- is quite confident that the notoriety can't hurt, and might even help, her career."

20 of 269 comments (clear)

  1. It's the old adage... by fak3r · · Score: 4, Insightful

    there's no such thing as bad publicity.

    (1st?)

    1. Re:It's the old adage... by robertjw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's an exception to every rule... Child molestation is not EVER good publicity, Abu Grahib and Olympic scandals aren't either. OTOH, Lewinsky got her 15 minutes of fame, TV gigs, sponsors, etc... It's doubtful she would have been memorable otherwise. Kate Moss is going to be on the cover of Vogue and is EVERYWHERE in the news. Dan Quayle would be even less memorable if it wasn't for his goofiness.

  2. They do more often than they don't by winkydink · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can't extrapolate from one intern who was hired despite having sent out a stupid email. TFA implies he spent the rest of the summer kissing ass and working his butt off.

    As for Abadala, she's a trust-fund baby. I suspect she'll learn the hard way that professional networking is extremely important in a services career.

    Many people have been passed over for hire for something stupid they posted to Usenet or an Internet forum. Googling a person before hire to learn as much about them as possible is standard practice these days.

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    1. Re:They do more often than they don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree. Am I the only one surprised that a lawfirm would hire someone who sent information to unintended recipients? It could just as easily have been a customer, competitor, court official, or opposing counsel that received the email about "doing jack" and "doing jack" could just as easily have been confidential information or something offensive.

    2. Re:They do more often than they don't by cavemanf16 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you underestimate the "good" Ms. Abdala did for herself in the legal profession. Remember, these are people who are paid to give the verbal and written smack down to the lawyer across the table on a daily basis. If anything, other lawyers that know of her and practice in her area will now know that she is potentially more competent and a better advocate for herself and her clients than that guy she turned down. This could result in a job offer, or at least, more "street cred" during negotiations with the other party. Now for some IT geek going off to someone in industry, that behavior would probably equal near career death because IT geeks need to be able to do IT work, but communicate with others in a sociable manner. Lawyers don't get paid to be sociable; they get paid to win, as do salesmen and entreprenaurs (sp?) as TFA stated.

    3. Re:They do more often than they don't by dal20402 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Lawyers are not paid to "give the smack down." They're paid to achieve the best possible result for clients. Once in a while, that may involve being forceful. But, more often, that involves succeeding in negotiations and working with the opposition to achieve a resolution that works for both parties. Even in litigation, things go more smoothly for everyone when opposing counsel have a good working relationship.

      If I were a client, I wouldn't touch Abdala with a ten-foot pole; I wouldn't trust her to have the good judgment and professional collegiality necessary to get me a good result. If I were a lawyer, I'd dread any situation where I had to work with her, and I certainly wouldn't hire her to work in my firm.

    4. Re:They do more often than they don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thats not the point. The point is that everyone expects interns to fould up at least once. The real test of character is how they react afterwards. This chap put his nose to the griondstone and straightened up, and that was the kind of person the firm was looking for.

    5. Re:They do more often than they don't by cluedweasel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Googling a person before hire to learn as much about them as possible is standard practice these days." Well that explains a lot. Googling myself (don't do that in public) the other day I found someone convicted of supplying heroin with not only the same name as me but the same age and living in the same town as I worked in at the time of his conviction. I wonder how many HR folks put 2+2 together and got 5 on that one?

    6. Re:They do more often than they don't by Alex+P+Keaton+in+da · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In the workplace, there is no limit to what can hold you back.
      Someone who is brilliant, but socially awkward is not going to climb the corporate ladder.... (If interested, read up on Emotional Intelligence- It is one of the big things they pounded into us at Business School)
      The truth is, tiny things can snowball on the executive/prof. tracj- For example, if you look bad in your suit (rubber soled shoes in the office instead of leather soles etc) then maybe you rub someone the wrong way and you get passed over for an early promotion and your whole career pathe ends up being different...
      But seriously, if that guy from your highschool or college that was always the guy to beat, ie the smartest guy, is now stuck in some crappy job, he likely has low emotional intelligence....

      --
      And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
    7. Re:They do more often than they don't by iocat · · Score: 2, Insightful
      For sure. One time (as an hourly tester), I got exclusive use of my own Mac II (this was in the stone age). So I wasted no time putting a cool "IBM sucks" startup screen on it, because I was a Mac guy.

      Then the next day (literally) they used "my" Mac to give a demo... to IBM. When I got in, everyone in the tester pit told me about it and was like "dude, you're so fired." But my boss (who was a former Vietname tunnel rat and a very frightening guy) was totally cool about it. He was like "did you do this" and I was like "uh, yeah" and he was like "Right. Don't do that again. Anything you do at an office, everyone sees." That was it. That was a great lesson and probably has saved my ass a million times in the age of email. (Plus it taught me a great deal about how to treat others.)

      Anyone who is halfway competant deserves at least one consequence-free fuckup at a given job.

      --

      Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

  3. Ummmm by MikeRT · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe this is because in the legal profession you need to be forceful and unyielding in order to help you argue your cases. Who has ever heard of a famous lawyer who felt others pain, considered their positions and was meak and soft-spoken in court?

    As a geek, though, I have found that many human resources types leave you alone when you come off strong and watch your language. Projecting dominance works well with them. If you do it right, you leave them no grounds to say "he was intimidating me" because the authority looks at your conduct and says, "uh, right. Next case."

    It's about a simple rule. The average person doesn't really respect those they think are weak and/or vulnerable. This applies to both genders. Women don't like men who just give them what they want, and men don't respect women who just blindly take whatever a man does. People who are unwilling to just sit there and take it get much more respect in almost any organization. Usually the types that complain shut up in the face of a counter-challenge.

  4. Lawyer Lives Stereotype by BobBobBobBobBob · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Dianna Abdala, the lawyer in TFA, sounds like a giant dick. If I were hiring lawyers and did a quick search on the applicants' names to see what came up, and I read such an immature emailed exchange, I definitely would not hire her. No matter how good a lawyer she is (and I'm sure she's not the best lawyer ever, so there are plenty to choose from), anyone with an attitude like hers would be really difficult to work with. I wouldn't do that to myself or to the people who had to work with her. YMMV (you may enjoy working with annoying people who can't follow good advice from an expert in their field).

    From the article:
    As for Ms. Abdala, she says a mea culpa "will never happen." She's living on funds provided by her father and has rented office space for her own practice. "I've never been the type to work under someone," she says.

    She sounds like one of those people who nobody picks to work with, so she ends up doing all of her work alone and has convinced herself that she enjoys it. I hope the marketplace (ie, her prospective customers) make her suffer (or she'll surely make them suffer, not having learned how to behave in a civil society).

  5. What's the issue here? by jafiwam · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What is the issue?

    That someone put snotty comments in an email?

    Or that some other person choose to use them as means other than intended by forewarding them on to a bunch of other people?

    It looks like the article (yes, I RTFA) is bashing the wench for being snotty, not the recipient for using the email to further their own ends.

  6. Not Always, But Most of The Time(I hope) by monoqlith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ms. Abdala sounds like a spoiled nutjob who thinks that her thoughtless gall in her personal life should automatically transfer to her professional career. The fact that cattiness is framed positively and rewarded in today's business world is disheartening. There is a difference between being bold and confident and being petty. Moreover, just because you have gall does not mean you are always correct. As a man whose initials are JK once said in a widely watched debate, "You can be confident and you can be wrong." The type of gall that Ms. Abdala displays here may be good in the court-room but it can also be dangerous when administrating a business. A lack of concern for other people's feelings or thoughts is just as bad - probably more - than an over-concern for them. A good worker has the confidence to stand up for their own opinions bravely when they know they are right, and to take genuine opportunities. She also knows when to shut up and cooperate, for crissake. I really hope that Ms. Abdala's outrageous bluntness is not rewarded with a fast-track career.

  7. The ending was clear when.... by Routerhead · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... she said this: I'm more worried about whether I've left my hair iron on than this little email exchange

    Translation: I can't get a job now.

    --
    In tabulario donationem feci.
  8. I know this already by kiyuki · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I watched Jerry McGuire.

  9. Re:CLM Vrs CEM by metternich · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Reminds me of this old joke:

    A shadkhen (matchmaker) goes to see a poor man and says, "I want to arrange a marriage for your son."
    The poor man replies, "I never interfere in my son's life."
    The shadkhen responds, "But the girl is Lord Rothschild's daughter."
    "Well, in that case..."

    Next, the shadkhen approaches Lord Rothschild. "I have a husband for your daughter."
    "But my daughter is too young to marry."
    "But this young man is already a vice president of the World Bank."
    "Ah, in that case..."

    Finally, the shadkhen goes to see the president of the World Bank.
    "I have a young man to recommend to you as a vice president."
    "But I already have more vice presidents than I need."
    "But this young man is Lord Rothschild's son-in-law."
    "Ah, in that case...."

    --
    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
  10. Must be nice by MrNougat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From TFA:

    As for Ms. Abdala, she says a mea culpa "will never happen." She's living on funds provided by her father and has rented office space for her own practice. "I've never been the type to work under someone," she says.

    I won't work under someone, earning my own way, but I'll shamelessly nurse from the teat. That doesn't work for people whose parents don't have the funds to be venture capitalists for their children.

    --
    Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
  11. Re:Where do they work? by AviLazar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As a person who worked at a bank for 5 years, from teller, to head teller, to personal banker, to investment specialist I can tell you that - potentially an investment specialist would need to hit certain sites to find out things like stock prices. Other then that, it is not necessary for the company. The bank can easily restrict access to specific users (i.e. Only allow people who have the investment specialist job description). Instead of putting it in front of everyones faces. People can also utilize the internet and be fairly respectful "yes i will only go to check my email, or weather report, etc." If you don't want your employees doing something, then do not temp them with it.

    --

    I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
  12. If she was a real lawyer... by SoCalDissident · · Score: 2, Insightful
    She would've had one of this disclaimers at the end of her email that read something along the lines of:

    This e-mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. (I stole the disclaimer from my friends email; hope that doesn't count as 'use')

    And, in this case, the ??? step would be "sue for unauthorized distribution). Quote the business plan; quite job, send snippy email, then sue if the boss passes it on.

    This post is for the sole use of the intended /. recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, distribution, or reply/rebuttal is prohibited.