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New Budget NASA Space Science Missions

pertinax18 writes "The New York Times is reporting that 'Some of the most highly promoted missions on NASA's scientific agenda would be postponed indefinitely or perhaps even canceled under the agency's new budget.' This looks to directly impact the types of missions that have been NASA's greatest successes like the Mars Rovers. 'Among the casualties in the budget, released last month, are efforts to look for habitable planets and perhaps life elsewhere in the galaxy, an investigation of the dark energy that seems to be ripping the universe apart, bringing a sample of Mars back to Earth and exploring for life under the ice of Jupiter's moon Europa'"

14 of 180 comments (clear)

  1. You gotta pay your bills by Wellerite · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well - the US is racking up huge bills in Iraq, with no end in sight, not to mention the enormous current account deficit, so I guess NASA gets hit with the cost-cutting.

    1. Re:You gotta pay your bills by msbsod · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This may be true for scientists who already established a research program. And it will be difficult to get them back. Those who have tenure will make it somehow until retirement. But students, postdocs and young professors are already facing serious problems. Students are not stupid. If they find that science has no future, then they will do something else. Some numbers are already at an all-time low, like the number of physics students. Most universities in the US have fewer physics students of any age than graduate students at universities in Europe or Asia. It will take a while until the economy feels the impact. When it is too late, we will find that scientists cannot be simply created.

  2. Re:Well... by iamlucky13 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    And on a more serious note...

    While Europa remains a high priority for science missions, NASA has been re-evaluating the JIMO mission and concepts that have been proposed for Europa landers, and the latest opinion is that the scope of these missions would make them too costly for the amount of information returned. Additionally, JIMO relies too heavily on technology still in development for Griffin's comfort.

    Among the casualties in the budget, released last month...

    Also released last month, if I remember right, another slashdot article talking about said budget. Sorry, but I'm too lazy and slashdot's search feature is too crappy for me to look it up.

  3. Does anyone disagree with me here? by Eightyford · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Get rid of the bloody Space Shuttle!

    Between the Space Shuttle's budget, stupid wars, and highways to nowhere, the US government should be able scrape together a few million for these important missions.

    1. Re:Does anyone disagree with me here? by Buran · · Score: 2, Informative

      Er...

      That's exactly where the money is going: to develop the CEV. Which happens to be the manned replacement for the Shuttle. There is also the big booster built from Shuttle-system components that will be used for heavy lifting big cargo.

      You're advocating what's already being done!

      The shuttle program can't just stop now, however; it's needed for a few more tasks. Like, oh, that obligation toward finishing the space station and getting it usable (at least, the parts that aren't just being trashed and left to rot, even though they were built to fly). Like, oh, repairing the Hubble Space Telescope and installing already-built parts.

    2. Re:Does anyone disagree with me here? by Bad+D.N.A. · · Score: 3, Insightful

      OK, let's get this misconception out of the way.

      misconception my ass.

      While there are a lot of things that robots can do, there are a hell of a lot of things they can't. For instance, having a robot on Mars doing geology investigations is great, but all the stuff the rovers take a day to do could be done by a human in just a few minutes.

      The amount of time it takes is irrelevant. How much is costs to get the job done is the point.

      Robots can't react to new situations the way humans do, either; present one with something outside of its programming and it'll just sit there. And do you really trust the robot to not screw up?

      Um... And like there is not a documented paper trail of people screwing up?

      There are reasons why humans still drive trucks, fly planes, and operate trains.

      What planet do you live on? You have never heard of robots flying planes or operating trains or driving trucks? The military uses flying planes now. Every other airport I go to uses robots to drive the trams. Nearly every distribution plant uses robots to truck goods from one end to the other.

      You use the right tool for the right job. And the choice of a human over a robot can sometimes be just another case where you choose the right method for the right situation.

      Bullshit

      You use the tools you can afford! I would love to use a helicopter to transport me from my house to my work every day. It would save time, the technology is available, what's the downside? I cant afford it

      I could hire a doctor to put a bandage on my kids "boo-boo". The doctor is certainly qualified, what's the downside? It's too expensive

      I could send a dude to Mars to pick up rocks. "Dude" is certainly qualified, he can do it faster, what is the downside? do you really need the math?

      --
      "Truth is much too complicated to allow anything but approximations"
  4. A Tale Of Two Goals, indeed by Buran · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And so Dickens was right.

    We have long been hoping that someday people would go back to the moon for more than just the Apollo-style touch-and-go missions, and now that looks like a reality more than it ever has since the end of the Apollo program.

    And yet, it is the worst of times, too, for those who have been working very, very hard on programs that have nothing to do with the lunar program which have been very productive. I can only hope that this will pass, and that once the new vehicles have been developed and are flying we will be able to resume other science programs -- and face it, despite the setbacks like the Polar Lander and the Climate Observer, there have been a great many successes in the NASA robotic programs. The HST, the MER program, Cassini, the Great Observatories, Landsat, the list just goes on and on.

    The Shuttle was and is a great idea, but the execution was flawed due to too much pennypinching during the design phase. It is an amazing idea and I hope that a safer reincarnation of the same thing returns, from either a government or from a private company. Do it right (manned flyback booster, a hardier orbiter, and so on) and put a better escape system on it.

    But until things get smoothed out again, all I can do is wait, and hope that it all works out in the end. I've been a space buff for years, and I probably will be forever, and I know that the new expendables will probably be more inexpensive to operate plus the processing flow will hopefully be smoother.

    Until then, though, it is the season of light and the season of darkness.

    1. Re:A Tale Of Two Goals, indeed by vsprintf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Shuttle was and is a great idea, but the execution was flawed due to too much pennypinching during the design phase.

      I'm not sure design was the real problem. As usual, when government money is involved, engineering loses out to politics. The history of the Shuttle might have been far different if Morton Thiokol (who had a huge logistical disadvantage) hadn't been awarded a certain contract.

      Too many people, inside and outside of NASA, made conflicting claims about the Shuttle. Depending on who you listen to, it was supposed to be reusable, cheap, dependable, long-lived, have fast turnaround, be a science platform, be a space truck, etc. Well, pick one or two if you're a realist. I'm amazed that it performed as well as it did at so many tasks and think the basic design was fairly good.

  5. At least someone... by kuwan · · Score: 2, Informative

    At least someone is doing something:

    Senator Pete V. Domenici, Republican of New Mexico, and 56 other senators have introduced a bill that would mandate a 10 percent increase per year in NASA's science budget from now through 2013, among other things.

    More people ought to contact their representatives about NASA funding. Unfortunately space exploration doesn't seem to get as much press time as other "important" issues these days.

  6. Re:Not good at all by HanzoSpam · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Solution: Reduce the focus on having humans flying around like Buck Rogers until launch costs become reasonable.

    Better solution: quit wasting money collecting fun facts about distant destinations we won't have the technology to visit for centuries, if ever, and concentrate our resources on local destinations that might actually yeild some practical use to us sometime before the 29th century.

    In my book, they're setting their priorities exactly right.

    --

    Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
  7. Their 5 year mission... by ch-chuck · · Score: 3, Funny

    Uhura: Captain, I'm getting an urgent communique' from Starfleet HQ
    Kirk: Put in on the main screen
    Uhura: Aya
    Commander: Jim...
    Kirk: Commander Wilkes! What brings us the pleasure of your visit?
    Commander: Jim, I have some bad news.
    Kirk: Not another shippment of tribbles, heheh
    Commander: Jim, this is serious. We're ... you know that 'five year mission' bit?
    Kirk: Yes
    Commander: Well, we're going to have to cut it back to one ...
    Kirk: What?
    Commander: That's right - one year.
    Kirk: (dramatic) Their ... ONE ... year ... mission ... to ... seek ...
    Commander: That give your 3 more months to clear up this planet destroyer thingy.
    Kirk: But ... why??
    Commander: It's the budget Jim. Starfleet's pretty strapped these days, what with the extra patrols in the Romulan sector
    Kirk: I knew we never should have taken sides in their sectarian squabbling.
    Commander: That doesn't matter. It's not for us to decide. We .. have our orders. And you ha..
    Kirk: What about ... new life, new planets ... boldly going ...
    Commander: It's "to boldy go" Jim. I know, we all feel as bad about it as you do. Prepare to wrap this up in 3 months. That's all.
    Uhura: They've dropped connection, captain.
    Kirk: Sulu, lay in a course for the Altairian sector
    Spock: Captain, the plant destroyer is continuing toward the heavily populated...
    Kirk: Nevermind that. If we've only got 3 months budget left we're going to the planet of the Altairian slave girls...

    --
    try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
  8. No big surprise by NatteringNabob · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Big ticket, no science programs like Bush II's 'man on mars' fantasy provide huge contracts to aerospace corporations that are big contributors. Programs that distribute a lot of small grants to thousands of scientists and graduate students don't produce contributions. Bush II has always been clear that job number one is taking care of the 'political base', and aerospace contractors have always been part of that.

  9. American Competitiveness Initiative by Pchelka · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I find this quite ironic since President Bush announced the American Competitiveness Initiative during his 2006 State of the Union Address. Maintaining a strong space program with a solid foundation in science would help increase our global competitiveness, especially since China and India are now trying to start space exploration programs of their own.

    Our government's policies are not consistent regarding science and technology, and both President Bush and Congress are to blame. Our lawmakers don't understand the human impact of their decisions regarding the budgets of agencies like NASA and the National Science Foundation (NSF). Every time they re-allocate funds from one project to another, cut programs, or fail to increase the NASA and NSF budgets sufficiently to account for inflation, scientists and engineers lose their jobs. The U.S. government is shooting itself in the foot when it comes to our global competitiveness in science and technology.

  10. Small changes by MagPulse · · Score: 2, Informative

    According to this page, here are the science budgets for 2004-2006:

    2004: $5,600M
    2005 (est): $5,527M
    2006 (est): $5,476M

    That doesn't look like too big of a change. Does losing $50 million really do that much?