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OpenDocument Alliance to Fight Digital Dark Age

OSS_ilation writes "A consortium of vendors and academic institutions -- including IBM, Sun Microsystems and the American Library Association -- has announced today that they are forming the OpenDocument Alliance as part of an effort to promote open file standards worldwide. The group will support the one truly open standard file format, OpenDocument, which is an XML-based file format used saving and exchanging editable office documents such as text documents, spreadsheets and presentations. Sun's Simon Phipps said he believed ODF would allow future generations to view all of today's digital docs and prevent a digital Dark Age from occurring."

9 of 185 comments (clear)

  1. what are the comparisons: openxml vs. open doc? by yagu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Open formats are definitely the standard for which to strive.

    It appears Microsoft claims an open format, from the (fine) article:

    OpenXML will be the default format for saving documents instead of Microsoft's proprietary formats, said Alan Yates of the company's Office division

    Can anyone clear up exactly what OpenXML is? When I google it, I get vague references leading me to believe OpenXML is more of a container, and not Microsoft's specific document format. So, this sounds like another canard from Microsoft with the claim "open" obfuscating what is probably not.

    Any /.'ers have more info about Microsoft's format?

    On the other hand, the consortium (if you will) proposing a universal open document standard sounds more open and the proof will be in the implementation. Still, I'd like to know more specifically what that standard proposal is in detail.

    1. Re:what are the comparisons: openxml vs. open doc? by amliebsch · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I don't know, it looks like it might - might - be the real deal this time. The Office 12 format has been submitted to the ECMA, and the revised licensing terms are actually very favorable. There is a decent example of the new Word XML here:
      http://blogs.msdn.com/brian_jones/archive/2006/02/ 02/523469.aspx

      Additionally, it appears that they have adopted a covenant not to sue:

      Here are a few more specific and detailed questions and answers about Microsoft's 'Covenant Not to Sue' approach:

      There is no longer really a license that people need to sign up for in any way--No one needs to sign anything or even reference anything. Anyone is free to use the formats as they wish and do not need to make any mention or reference to Microsoft. Anyone can use or implement these formats to both read and write the formats with their technology, code, solution, etc.

      Patents--We eliminated the license to patents language and are instead providing an irrevocable commitment to not sue anyone based on the patents we have in the formats. If any parties prefer, we will make available the existing open and royalty free license as an alternative.

      Why does Microsoft have patents in this case at all?--We pursue patents early in our development process (as required by law) to protect our innovations and protect ourselves at the same time. Having patents gives us the ability to fend off patent lawsuits that are the inevitable result of being a big company and delivering new technology. In this case we are deciding not to enforce our patents in connection with these formats.

      Transferability of solutions and "GPL Compatibility"--If someone wants to build a solution that works with our formats, they are free to do so without worrying about patents or licenses associated with our formats. The concerns raised with our previous license about attribution and sub-licensing are now eliminated. Because the General Public License (GPL) is not universally interpreted the same way by everyone, we can't give anyone a legal opinion about how our language relates to the GPL or other OSS licenses, but we believe we have removed the principal objections that people found with our prior license in a very simple and clear way.

      Subsets, supersets, and 'conformance'--Anyone is free to work with a subset of the specifications, and anyone is free to create extensions to the specifications. A 'conformant' use is simply one that does not modify the specification. Of course subsets and supersets may create incompatibilities with other uses of the specifications and we want to provide some guidance on this topic in the future, but this will be guidance and not a mandate. The key is that this is an assurance that no one will be sued for using intellectual property in the specifications as they are written.

      Source: http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/developers /ecmafaq.mspx#EXB

      --
      If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
    2. Re:what are the comparisons: openxml vs. open doc? by owlstead · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Ah, supersets. Great. So, does Microsoft also states that it won't use supersets by default? And if anyone defines supersets, will there be any way to get them accepted in the standard? Or will MS just create a worse superset themselves and push that as default? Sun does not accept supersets of Java (called Java) for compatability reasons, since supersets can (and will) mess up the standard. See extended HTML added to MS IE as reference to that.

  2. Digital Dark Age? by tgd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not being able to read the damn file format isn't the problem. The fact that there is no possible way to store even a tiny fraction of the data being produced for the long term is what will cause a digital dark age.

    I mean hell. I've got 1.25 terabytes of online storage at home and probably 250 CDs burned over the last ten years I can't reliabily ensure I'll still have access to in ten years. Half those CDs are probably unreadable now -- from recent experience at least 10% aren't.

    If they want to solve the digital dark age problem, they need to figure out how gigabytes or terabytes of PERSONAL information will be saved for future generations, not filtered down government or commercial archives. File formats just aren't that big of a deal. Worst case someone has to reverse engineer it in a hundred years, if you actually HAVE the data in a hundred years.

  3. Re:THE one truly open format? by xtracto · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I somewhat agree with you, although even text/plain format does not guarantee that people will be able to access it 200 years from now.

    You see, even this text plain files are based on some conventions, this is, we all "know" that when your machine reads one of those files a 65 means the character A, 67 character B and so on. Thus, the generation that wants the information must be aware of those things.

    Now, with digital information is a bit more difficult than with printed paper, as in 200 years people may look at a magnetic plate hard disk and they may be able to read the train of bits, but there is nothing to give you the "protocol" needed in order to decipher that information.

    As an example of that difficulty, take the voynich book, even though it is printed and even though it has clear images and clear recognizable characters, it is impossible to decipher as nobody knows the "protocol" to extract the "information" from the data.

    What do I propose? well, I have no idea, maybe having a printed copoy of the ASCII table will be enough, maybe I am being dumb enough to think that in 200,300 or 400 years people may (for some reason) completely lose the meaning of ASCII (or UNICODE). Or as someone may think, in 200 years the information that is *relevant* enough would be in a readable form. Of course, there is a lot of non relevant information that our archeologists and historians are trying to understand even now (Mayan or Aztec civilization for example).

    --
    Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
  4. Re:Digital Dark Age My Ass by MindStalker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Of course the true fun is the fact that we are making it much more difficult for them as well with our constant musings. The events that lead up to Gulf War II will probably be important to historians. While the crazy nutcase theories concerning the events flood the internet will only confuse history. You can hardly seperate the truth from the fiction NOW, imagine trying to do so 100 years from now.

  5. Re:not that I would be against.. by Guillermito · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Lyx is not the only usable latex editor.

    I have found TeXmacs pretty good too.

    http://www.texmacs.org

    They also have a (beta) version that runs on Windows (I tested it. Works fine.)

    There are other commercial editor also.

  6. Re:Dark age already upon us by Megane · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Catweasel controller board can read basically any floppy disk format, because it returns the timing between transitions. Whether you can find drivers to decode the data is another matter, but it is possible to write your own. For standard FM and MFM disks, cw2dmk works very well. The main problem with reading old Commodore disks is the crazy copy protection tricks they used, some of which even required 6502 code be downloaded to the floppy drive.

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  7. Re:THE one truly open format? by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I think in hundreds of years, we may not have to just worry about the medium but also how the language will have changed. This text is from the 1300's

    Lyte Lowys my sone, I aperceyve wel by certeyne evydences thyn abilite to lerne sciences touching nombres and proporciouns; and as wel considre I thy besy praier in special to lerne the tretys of the Astrelabie. Than for as mochel as a philosofre saith, "he wrappith him in his frend, that condescendith to the rightfulle praiers of his frend,"


    You could argue that current English is more standardised but there is a significant amount of pop culture that could be baffling. Destiny's Child lyrics come to mind. Personally the Chaucer example above makes more sense to me.

    We like dem boys that be in them lac's leanin' (Leanin')
    Open their mouth their grill gleamin' (Gleamin')
    Candy paint, keep that whip clean and (Clean and)
    (They always be talkin that country slang, we like)
    They keep that beat that be in the back beatin' (Beatin')


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