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Attorney General Investigates Music Price Fixing

An anonymous reader writes "The Guardian is reporting that the US Attorney General has launched an investigation into whether or not record labels are engaged in price fixing of music downloads. From the article: 'The department of justice inquiry centers on the activities of the four largest record labels: EMI, Sony BMG, Universal and Warner Music. Subpoenas are believed to have been issued to all parties, with federal officials understood to be focusing on whether the companies have been colluding to keep the price of downloads artificially high.'"

24 of 257 comments (clear)

  1. Forgive me for plugging my site, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Another pretty good article on this subject can be found at this site

  2. Parent exposes duplicate link, but anyway... by Wayne_Knight · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Is this surprising?

    Everyone is greedy to a point. Some are just able to carry their greed to the point of complete selfishness and totally ignore the high percentage of people who have a hard time just keeping a roof over their heads.

    What the heck will it take? Evolution of the human species? I always think back to those old Star Trek episodes where they land on some planet where the inhabitants laugh kindly at Earth's culture because they have learned to live without greed, take care of everyone, and actually enjoy sex rather than codify it.

    I don't know why I want to write this... mod at your leisure. But before you bite my head off, I want to make sure all the future commenters out there read this very key quote:
    "Music companies make more money when they sell a song on iTunes than when they sell a CD," Mr Jobs said last year. "If they want to raise prices, it's because they're greedy. If the price goes up, people turn back to piracy - and everybody loses."
    Hopefully that will keep those crazy anti-Apple fanboys at bay.
    1. Re:Parent exposes duplicate link, but anyway... by spun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Genes can code for societal behavior, too. If I help 3 of my close relatives breed, I have just passed on my genes even if I don't breed myself. Look at ants and bees. Most of them never breed. If genes only code for selfish behavior, how'd that happen?

      Cooperative societies are more successfull than purely competative ones. According to recent economic research, most people value fairness and justice over personal gain. This is because cooperation is a more efficient strategy. Placing a high value on personal selfishness and greed is counter-productive. It encourages people who by nature might be cooperative to be selfish, harming all of society.

      You can try to get the rest of us to agree with your "greed is good" theory, but most people won't. We like cooperation. We value justice and fairness over greed and selfishness. We think people who are selfish and greedy suck, and we see no reason to cooperate with people like that and give them the benefits of our cooperative society. Greedy people should go live by themselves and be entirely self sufficent without being a drain on the rest of us.

      The 19th century called, it wants its failed theory of social darwinism back.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  3. And if convicted... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...they have to pay a $50 fine and publish a press release including the words "We are vewwy, vewwy sowwy." Rinse, repeat 10 years later...

  4. Re:The parable of the two farmers and the customer by Aggrav8d · · Score: 5, Funny

    But we're talking about music and music here. Your parable and the attorney general's actions are like apples and oranges.

  5. *Cough* by Dr.+Sorenson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They are 10 years late and investigating the wrong medium. I don't see anything wrong with 99 cents per song, my issues were the $21 for a CD with one decent song.

    1. Re:*Cough* by slashdot.org · · Score: 5, Interesting

      They are 10 years late and investigating the wrong medium. I don't see anything wrong with 99 cents per song, my issues were the $21 for a CD with one decent song.

      I do see something wrong with $0.99/song. I happen to like to get the entire album. I don't thing I've ever paid $21 for a CD. Maybe $17 at the most. But on average I'd say $14.-

      So that bottoms out at about nearly the same price. What I don't understand is why the music industry believes that they can pocket all the money when selling a product that [1] is inferior in sound quality (unless iTunes sells lossless compression now, I've done a-b tests and I think most people will be able to hear the difference in quality on a high-end audio system) [2] is inferior in flexibility (original CDs didn't have any form of DRM) [3] is less complete (where's the booklet with lyrics?) [4] requires special software to purchase/playback and finally [5] costs them a LOT less to distribute.

      The last one is really the kicker. I _know_ what distribution and production of media costs, and it's pretty clear that the music industry is behaving like a bunch of greedy bastards. If they are lucky they'll get 50% of what you pay for a CD after the cost of distribution, production and storage. Yet when they sell stuff online they want to pick up 100% of what normally goes to third parties. In other words, if I pay $10 for a CD, about half (or more) goes to the cost of media (CD, case & booklet), distribution, storage and retail cost. All this is pretty much replaced by a simple website and server, which will cost peanuts on a per-download basis. So the music industry wants to absorb all of the $5 or whatever that was saved by going online.

      I guess that's fine with me. I won't download music illegaly. But I won't buy it either. If I _really_ want something, I'll get a CD. Give me reasonable prices for a reasonable product and we'll talk. Don't come bitching about sales going down and quit your fucking government manipulation.

      The bands that are taking things in their own hands and realizing that recording and distributing online is something they can finance themselves should be applauded and supported in any way possible.

  6. Re:Music industry answer: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I always think of how it can cost 99 cents to download a full song from iTunes, which is a reasonable price considering a music CD costs at most that much on average, but then a ringtone of the same song, a 15 second or so clip, costs 3 dollars to download from the service provider of the phone. I should at least get the whole song on my phone for that much moola.

  7. Re:The parable of the two farmers and the customer by Wes+Janson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How about a new parable that actually fits?

    Once upon a time there were a couple record companies. Through the years, their product was the creation, publishing, and distribution of music on various analog media. As technology progressed, they were able to condense even more songs into a smaller product, at an even lower cost to themselves.

    One day, a new technology came along that allowed customers to take songs and give them amongst each other, for free. This new technology allowed instantaneous and essentially free distribution. At first the companies attempted to stop customers by making their activities and technologies illegal. Slowly, however, they began to consider adopting this new method of distribution themselves.

    But instead of reducing their prices to reflect the change in cost to deliver the product to market, these companies decided to increase their costs, in the name of profitability and growth and investors. When customers saw that the companies were overcharging them, they began to deliberately turn away, continuing to take the product, but without paying for it. In turn, the companies decided to increase their prices further, to make a greater profit off of the shrinking market. But the more they increased the cost, the fewer customers they seemed to have...

  8. Just downloads? by Dracos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Price fixing has been a hallmark of the music industry for fifty years. Let's look at CD's.

    It costs any record company, on average, about $0.25 to get one CD into a retail store. This includes:

    • Studio time
    • Engineering/mixing
    • Paying the artist
    • Promotion
    • Distribution

    Normally, manufacturers strive to keep their cost per unit at or below 12.5% of the retail price. The distributor then buys the unit at 30% to 40% of retail. The retailer buys the unit at 60% of retail. The customer buys the unit at (you guessed it) full retail price.

    Let's see how the typical $16 CD retail price breaks down:

    • $16.00: Cost to consumer
    • $9.60: retailer (wholesale) cost
    • $4.80 to $6.40: distributor cost
    • $2.00: production cost

    But Wait!!! Most record companies are their own distributors. More profit for them.

    We see now that $0.25 (real cost) is about 1/8 of the production cost calculated here. Following the model, one CD should cost about $2.00.

    Which is still more than most of the trite crap produced these days is worth. Music isn't a cash cow, it's a cash herd.

  9. How dare they! by jimicus · · Score: 5, Funny

    Don't they realise that 90% of albums make a loss?! That marketing and distribution is incredibly expensive? That the few artists who do make a profit essentially provide a subsidy so the record companies can go out and find new talent?

    Do these busybodies not grasp that record company executives need to have two new luxury cars every year?

    Do they not realise that by the time you've bribed DJs all around the world to play your music rather than the interesting demo some promising new band sent them, there's only enough money left for bonuses in the region of $20 million/year? How can record companies hope to continue attracting the best chief executives if they can only pay $20million in bonuses?

  10. Re:Music industry answer: by Znork · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "I always think of how it can cost 99 cents to download a full song from iTunes... but then a ringtone... costs 3 dollars"

    That's because p2p networks still keeps prices on downloads down.

    Pricing on copyrighted material isnt set relative to costs, it's set relative to available capital for purchases. If the consumers get more money, then the prices will rise, regardless of actual costs. The only 'competition' there is is illicit copying.

    The DOJ suing the labels for 'collusion to keep prices up' is rather ironic and just shows how far from reality the concept of IP has gone.

    To the attorney general: Yes, of course there is price fixing and collusion to keep the price up. It's in the damn code of law. Look under the heading 'digital millenium copyright act' in your own bookshelf and you'll find all the evidence you need. 'Keeping the prices up' was the whole point of it.

  11. CDs by tooth · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't care about price fixing of music downloads. Look at price fixing of physical CDs instead. How can a music CD cost the same as a movie DVD? And while they're at it, make them use the true CDROM standard, without drm hacks.

    1. Re:CDs by stunt_penguin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "How can a music CD cost the same as a movie DVD?"

      I also find it strange that a music CD can cost pretty much the same- a movie will cost tens (maybe hundreds) of millions of euros to produce, but retails for about 26 if you're lucky, and a new album costs much, much less to produce (oh, say 2 million if you're an absolutely huge band and spend like 2 years on it) and costs nearly 20 or so to buy.

      That said, the cinema run pays for most of the costs of movie production, though not as often as you'd think, and by the time something makes it to HMV they're just making profit on something that a lot have people have paid 9 to see once, without taking a copy home, and with some idiot texting someone on the phone 5 seats to your left. At the same time, I still love going to the cinema and ( I went last night ) and don't begrudge a good movie a good profit.
       

      --
      When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
  12. Cash by nighty5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1) Cold hard cash will be transfered under "campaign contribution" from the mysterious Big Four to the US Attorney General.

    2) Investigation will reveal nothing.

    3) Profit!

  13. Re:The parable of the two farmers and the customer by Kingofearth · · Score: 5, Funny

    How about a new parable that actually fits?

    What did you expect from BadAnalogyGuy?

  14. The root of the problem by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I don't see how price fixing can even be *defined* in the music market. The entire industry is built on government-granted monopolies (copyright). Supply is infinite; competition is crippled; prices are arbitrary even in the absence of any shady dealings.

    Even if the attorney general did decide to take some action, it would undoubtedly be some slap-on-the-wrist fine or equally ineffective measure. Nobody seems to ever consider doing something that might be effective. In this case, the problem is at its root caused by the government-granted monopoly of copyright. No copyright, no problems! If the government is unhappy with the copyright monopolies they have created, why not strike the problem at its root and weaken the copyrights of those who abuse them?

    This would work not just on music companies but on any business built on copyright; for example software businesses such as Microsoft. Instead of a fine, simply slash the duration of copyright on the company's assets, or even release some portion of them to the public domain immediately. This would not only serve as a deterrent to future abuses; it would actually reduce their *ability* to commit abuses in the present, and it would measurably benefit the public as well.

    --
    main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
  15. These number's can't be close by tkrotchko · · Score: 5, Informative

    "So even for the "cheap" model of production, you're looking at $10 CDs."

    Impossible.

    Sony BMG has once-a-month sales where they ship CD's to your house at $6-7 per disk. Presumably when I buy a $6 CD, Sony is not losing money, so it suggests the cost is significantly lower than you calculate.

    --
    You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
  16. Re:The parable of the two farmers and the customer by pipingguy · · Score: 4, Interesting


    How about a new parable that actually fits?

    Rewind a bit...

    "Pop" music depends on hype. I, for one, do not think that the screaming teenage girls in the 50's phenomenon was entirely "spontaneous". That was staged and aggressively promoted. Thus, pop music hysteria was born, and what better pent-up group of emotions than pre-adolescent, innocent females would there be to manipulate?

  17. answer by caffeination · · Score: 5, Insightful
    why don't we all go to Digg and set up camp at the new epicenter for geek news on the net?

    A few reasons.

    1. AJAX is bloaty. Digg takes an age to load.
    2. The right tool for the right job. AJAX for news? Why?
    3. Digg users are immature. NO DIGG FAGS
    4. Digg comments are a bitch to read through.
    5. The background gradient behind comments is buggy for long comments.
    6. Most front page stories on Digg aren't very good.
    7. Too many front page stories on Digg are blog links.
    8. Slashdot users are an older generation of internet users. Digg is all Web 2.0, and we don't get it.
    9. Lots of front page Digg links are beginner tutorials for css, perl etc. This does not appeal to the Slashdot demographic.
    10. Slashdot is about discussion. Digg isn't. They are completely different sites.

    I'm not 'flaming', or trying to be a prick in any way. It just seems that most Digg users don't understand why we aren't deserting Slashdot in droves for their site. You asked, I answered.

  18. Re:Music industry answer: by dodobh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Great! Now I squirted milk out of my nose! It is entirely thanks to MS that we have such inexpensive hardware

    That made me choke on my sandwich! There used to be this comapny named Compaq which reverse engineered the IBM BIOS and created a clone market. MS merely rode on this boom.

    Microsft marketing wins again!

    --
    I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
  19. Postive Price == Collusion/Stupidity by woolio · · Score: 5, Informative

    I recently discovered for myself the used CD market on ebay.

    I have currently purchased about ~50 cds. I got most for about $3 - $4 each on average including shipping. Each CD is a full album (no singles). Most have 10-15 songs on them. Many come from shops specializing in the sale of used cds...

    Which means I'm paying about $0.30 per song. And to think that someone had to collect these CDs, figure out which ones were scratched, which not, advertise on ebay, put them into a box, and ship them to be via the postal mail...

    Even if 25% of the CD is so scratched up that my computer can't read it, I still come out -- way ahead. And I like to think that maybe I'm helping someone [non-RIAA] out... (which may/may not be the case)

    And to think that we currently have an *industry* selling electronic copies of songs for $0.99? Thery already had the digitized recording from the recording studios... Bandwidth these days is practically free. There is virtually no packaging or transportation cost. Very little human intervention is required....

    So are the music companies colluding? Maybe. Or maybe they are just exploiting the dumbness of their customers... These companies are large enough to **define** the market. They don't have to answer to supply & demand. The real crime is that the public puts up with this and asks for more...

    Does anyone remember how buying home VHS/DVD movies used to be expensive? $15-$20 US for a single movie? Lately, Wal-Mart has a huge crate in their electronics dept, filled with DVDs for ~$5-$7 each... (*renting* at blockbuster costs almost that much ~$4). When displayed like that, I realize how stilly this whole $$$ for IP thing really is... But when displayed neatly in nice packaging on a shelf, these videos somehow appear [to the public] to merit their price...

    Some might say the $5-$7 movies are crap... Well, what are most of downloadable songs selling for $0.99 EACH??? And movies cost far far more to produce than music...

  20. I Seem to Recall... by Greyfox · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Another price fixing invesigation of the music industry a couple of years back. If memory serves me correctly, the music industry got a slap on the wrist at the time, the price of a new CD didn't drop and the industry came up with (Apparently legal) new and interesting ways to expose millions of computers on the Internet to malicious intruders in the name of protecting their franchise.

    Come to think of it, the DOJ antitrust investigations really aren't what they used to be at all. When they smacked down IBM, they put the fear of God into the company! For decades after that IBM bent over backwards to obey the terms of their agreement with the department. Ever since then though, it seems like all the companies that get investigated and found guilty of anti-competitive behavior just shrug it off and keep doing what they were doing before.

    I don't know when exactly the DOJ lost the ability to scare the living hell out of a company like they did with IBM, but I think they need to get that ability back. Otherwise they're just wasting my tax dollars. I think the best way to do that is to make a particularly brutal example of the next company they investigate. What? You say it's the music industry? Well... OK then! Get to it, guys!

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?