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ODF Alliance, Who, What, Where (and Why?)
Andy Updegrove writes "On Friday, the new ODF Alliance was launched with much fanfare to 'educate government' about the OpenDocument Format. A flurry of brief news articles appeared the same day, based on pre-launch interviews (as well as an Op/Ed piece in the Wall Street Journal by Sun's Scott McNealy), but they didn't include much information. So what's it all about, why was it formed, and will it be likely to succeed? Given that the 36 members include only one government unit (the ICT department for Vienna), the answer is clearly to establish a beachhead in the government market as a target of opportunity, and then to expand from there to meet the real goals of the members."
Speaking of witch, What exactly stops MS from incorporating a crippled version of OpenDocuments, thereby changing the standard (like they did to HTML)?
Sigs are bad for your health
Every member will have slightly different goals but one goal brings them all together. No one company (especially Microsoft) should be the gate keeper to people's own data.
For several of the members (like IBM for instance), their basic survival depends on an open file format. If Microsoft controls all the files then nobody else can compete.
Does it matter? Judging by their resistance in Mass., Microsoft thinks so.
Here is an other article on this: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060303-6313 .html
It's a few days old though. (March 3rd)
Cheers!
~Allen
If you RTFA, you'll see:
The ODF Alliance was first proposed by IBM...
If you look at the list of supporters, you'll see IBM, Sun, Novell, Red Hat, Oracle, etc. The open-document format does indeed have the backing of some big companies. The fact that MS doesn't want to support will slow adoption, but there is still a significant push for this format (as the very existence of this Alliance attests to).
March 3, 2006
COMMENTARY
DOW JONES REPRINTS
Software Hardball
By SCOTT MCNEALY
March 3, 2006; Page A10
In principle at least, there is no controversy. No one would argue that content you create belongs to anyone but you. But, in fact, it doesn't.
That's the dirty little secret behind much of the software people use today. In business, in government, in schools and in homes all around the world, we entrust our work to software applications: word processors, spreadsheets, presentation programs and all the rest. And, too often, that's where we lose control of our own words and thoughts -- simply on account of the way we save our documents. Because we tend to store information in formats that are owned and managed by a single dominant company, in a few short years we may no longer be able to access our files if the format is "upgraded." Or we may be required to buy a new expensive version of the software just to access our own thoughts. We do it without giving it a second thought. After all, what's the alternative? A typewriter? An adding machine? A quill?
Think about it: If the Constitution were being drafted today, we would likely lose free, or low cost, or even any kind of access to much of the vital background in the Framers' correspondence to one another -- all because the file format will no longer be supported sometime in the future. A letter is more or less permanent, and easily transferable to different environments. An email is not.
Software appears to give us all the control we need over our documents -- until it doesn't. The problem shows up when we decide to try something different. A new way of doing things or a different software application. Something better. Something cheaper, more reliable, easier. But we're stuck with all these files in a format that's exclusive to the company from which we bought the first software application. In business, that's called a barrier to exit. Companies that create barriers to exit figure we won't notice until it's too late when the cost of switching is too high.
In the larger scheme of things, barriers to exit are bad for the consumer. It means that in the long term we often end up paying more than we should and getting less innovation than we would on a level playing field. Companies should compete on the value their products provide, not on their ability to lock customers into a proprietary "standard." At this point, some people throw up their hands and say that's just the way of the world. Nothing we can do about it.
Not so. There is now an open, international standard for common personal productivity applications -- spreadsheet, presentation and word-processing programs -- called the OpenDocument Format (ODF). Approved by an independent standards body, ODF has the backing of a broad community of supporters including consumer groups, academic institutions, a collection of library associations including the American Library Association, and many leading high-tech companies, but no single company owns it or controls it. (A "standard" created and controlled by a single company is not a true standard.) Any company can incorporate the OpenDocument Format into its products, free of charge, and tear down the barriers to exit.
Imagine being able to open any email attachment, read it and make changes, even if you don't have the exact program it was created in. That's the kind of interoperability the OpenDocument Format is designed to foster.
If this standard is to become a reality, we must insist on it. In the U.S., Massachusetts has been leading the way with a mandate that all software purchased by the commonwealth comply with ODF. Globally, 13 nations are considering adopting it. The reason is simple. The data belongs to the people, not to the software vendor that created the file format.
If you don't think this is an issue, take a look at what happened after Hurricane Katrina. People needing emergency services information found that some government Web sites could only be accessed from a singl
That's certainly worth worrying about. I'm not 100% sure here, but I think that the ODF will be administered in such a way that if you want to claim "OpenDocument compliant" on your product, you have to implement the standard fully and properly. Improper implementations can of course be produced (since the spec is openly published), but they will not be able to state/claim "OpenDocument compliant." (This can be protected with trademark law, etc.) It should be noted, however, that the standard clearly states that there will be no fees required to use it.
The OASIS faq states that "The OpenDocument format is owned by OASIS, a non-profit consortium dedicated to the open development of public XML standards." So I think they will use legal means to protect the "OpenDocument" format name from being mis-used, while allowing free implementation of the format by anyone desiring to do it properly.
A few patents. While sun swore not to do anything if someone implemented the standard. There was no free pass offered to people who want to modify it.
I trust Microsoft as far as I could comfortably spit a dead rat
Quote from where the parent linked to, link:
"new Office XML specifications are freely available for anyone to download and Microsoft offers perpetual, royalty-free licenses to use them"
If the format is efficient and simple enough to handle, this seems good enough for me. ofcourse Microsoft is hardly an independend organisation, and i think these kinds of standards should be from such a organisation. Is the ODF more independend?
They'll just call it "OpenDocument compatible" or somesuch. :(
There's another reason its not worth worrying too hard about.
;-)
OpenOffice.org will read them correctly. Wordperfect, if they ever get round to it, will read them correctly. Sun's StarOffice, IBM's workplace will read ODF correctly. Abiword, etc, etc . . .
Let's say that MS offers EITHER broken ODF support, or no ODF support at all. Anyone who is in an environment that uses ODF has no problems; they can simply open the ODF in OpenOffice.org, which is free, and save it as a DOC, which Office will open correctly.
And that's the kicker; once you're using OpenOffice.org as a conversion filter you'll have people stop using MS Office for simple edits.
And then you've got a foothold
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
This will only validate that:
A) One should use OpenOffice.org as a conversion filter instead of relying upon Microsoft's support, and
B) Microsoft can't program worth shit.
If every company on the planet except MS has good ODF support, and people start installing OpenOffice.org as a conversion filter, expect really bad things to happen to Microsoft's Office marketshare.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
First of all, the real issues here have nothing at all to do with "consumers" as most people define the term, this fight is about big money being spent at the Enterprise Computing level. Microsoft is not self sufficient in the world of Enterprise Computing. Of course they want to keep a tight hold on document formats. But in the end, they will cave because they need corporate alliences with many of these companies, at the Enterprise Computing level.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
One of the key reasons that alternatives to Microsoft Office haven't made substantial headway in government and educational institutions is because many users aren't aware of the alternatives available. Or if they are, they are unable to distinguish the advantages and disadvantages between the alternatives and Microsoft Office, and haven't received any substantial training using such alternatives.
As an educator, I began using OpenOffice.org and NeoOffice/J in the classes I taught or coordinated, along with Microsoft Office, to teach the fundamental concepts of preparing documents with office suite applications. Upon completion of the training, my students had a much better grasp of the differences between office productivity suites, their advantages and disadvantages, and which application performed better at preparing certain tasks based upon features. Moreover, those students could make better educated decisions of which office productivity suite to choose based upon their needs, not based upon which application has a greater marketshare or saves files in a specific format. Because of the benefits I witnessed from the instruction provided to these students, I ended up writing the book "A Conceptual Guide to OpenOffice.org 2.0" (www.conciseconceptsinc.com) that is based upon the handouts I prepared for those classes.
My hope is that the adoption of open source formats become a success. Users shouldn't have to choose to use a software package based upon the use of a closed source format tied to a specific application. Every application has its advantages and disadvantages, and every user needs specific features from an application when creating documents. Having applications standardize on open source formats, and have them compete on features/interface/ease-of-use/ etc., is much better for users in terms of choice and the assurance that documents created today are assessable by everyone for many years into the future.
That's silly and just not the reality. Microsoft can program just fine, it's just that they choose not to program for compatibility with non-Microsoft standards.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Can I mod this article flamebait ? My main personal annoyance with slashdot is that regardless of an article's subject, the comments are always filled with rabid open-source chest-thumpers. So I actually cringe when I see an article actually relating to open source. The articles are fine, I just wish the meganerd commenters that freak out about anything mainstream that *just works well without spending all afternoon in your mom's basement tweaking config files* would give it a rest sometimes.
My name is coaxeus, and I approve this message. In fact, I think it is awesome.
black magic :)
Can I mod this article flamebait ?
Actually slashdot is indeed experimenting with tags.
So I actually cringe when I see an article actually relating to open source.
Suggestion: don't read those stories. Change your preferences to avoid sections that they appear in.
The articles are fine, I just wish the meganerd commenters that freak out about anything mainstream that *just works well without spending all afternoon in your mom's basement tweaking config files* would give it a rest sometimes.
Suggestion: stop reading slashdot. Or read the summary and linked article without reading teh comments. Seriously, this is a forum where people make strongly-worded arguments that may or may not be moderated highly. If you're constantly frustrated by what gets modded up, then perhaps the slashdot community is not where you fit in. Actually I think this particular article is a great example of moderation bringing useful comments to the fore. It's not just "yah for open-source!"... there's a real discussion about if and why ODF is better. That the majority opinions seem to be falling on the side of "ODF is a good thing" merely points to the fact that:
1. Slashdot is a community (of nerds and meganerds), and we share some opinions in common.
2. Perhaps the conclusion is correct (in this case, ODF really is a good thing).
I understand your desire to avoid GroupThink... however despite all the worries, slashdot has a true diversity of opinion, and you can find both pro- and con- comments for most arguments. In cases with an overwhelming stance on one side or the other, often there's a good reason for that!
(note: posting AC because this thread is totally off-topic...)
Let the market decide what files to use instead of forcing something on everyone
Plain text.
When it comes to making file formats accessible and interchangeable, MS has behaved relatively well.
That is the best joke I've read in a while.
There will be a dozen or so MSOffice add-ons to deal with the ODF. Some free (as in beer) some free (as in ./configure make make install) and some that actually work for the nice lady in the accounting departament ....
Thinking that no ODF implementation in MSOffice is going to boost OpenOffice/Abiword/whatever's popularity is wishfull thinking at best.
Most people either don't know or don't care, but if IBM or some country said all employees had to use ODT in order to preserve data then it would affect MSWord's market share.
-Docvert converts MSWord to OpenDocument, clean HTML
... has become a thin mask for clumsy corporate activity. I'm hoping that the members step forwards with an end to end strategy that can be adopted by governments, at the moment it is hard to work out what a government would do with these good intentions.
There is no "market" when you are talking about government files that are meant for the public. Get it? You have a choice of whatever it is they pick and you can't go to office depot and shop around for another government document. This effort is a way to maybe bring about true universal public access to some text, LONG TERM, that isn't tied to the profits of one particlar corporation. Just like written on paper documents are, if you can read, you can access them. why should it be different with electronic documents just because microsoft says so? Don't they have enough money? How much larger and intrusive do they have to get before they are content? Is every human on the planet supposed to eventually just cut a piece of their paycheck to Microsoft, in perpetuity?
MS is the most arrogant and abusive corporation to come around in a long long time. They should have been busted up completely years ago. IMO, worse than Enron. The ONLY reason they are even offering this latest dodge is because they can clearly see the threat to their bottom line that the ODF is.
Screw them turkeys for ripping off businesses and governments and individuals and making the net an insecure and bogus coded wasteland. They should take their billions and be happy with it and retire. The sooner MS is removed from the computing public the better. They make the **AAs look like benevolent philanthropists. They had their chance to be good corporate citizens and blew it. They bring the concept of greed and incompetence to new levels never seen before.
and besides that, yo momma!
Elitist jack-ass...
Openoffice writer handles .doc files perfectly most of the time, but try giving a windoze prog a file that it didnt make, and watch what it calls your momma.
Open standards rule. MS loses. Where's the popcorn?
http://www.consortiuminfo.org/newsblog/blog.php?I
IANAL but as I understand it Sun made the pledge officially to the standards consortium OASIS, for all future versions of OpenDocument, and Microsoft put it on their own website, for Office 2003 XML, with an added notice It's all a bit complicated for me but I like Sun's version better.
To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
A better example of Microsoft allegedly complying with a standard but actually breaking it and making it inoperable is Kerberos. HTML is enough of a mongrel standard with lots of developers vying to add new features that it's understandable to add things to it. Kerberos, however, was reasonably mature and stable, and the change made was in no way a feature addition: it simply broke things for non-Windows Kerberos clients.
Wasn't this the problem with Microsoft's open document standard? To comply with the license you had to have a full implementation, and (almost) no OSS product would be 100% compliant all the time.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
PDF would have been one way to go, but only for stuff that you won't re-edit or re-use. My solution was to go full W3C-compliant HTML + CSS for most text documents and presentations. OpenDocument is an extension of that concept.
People laughed at the web a bit too before it caught on. And some hadn't even caught on to the Internet by that time, such as our esteemed Chairman Gates who in 1995 even went as far as to call the Internet a "passing fad" and "unimportant." I recall many people wanting to prioritize Gopher since it was already more established. However, when it came down to it, so many people found the usefulness of a format that anyone can implment, distribute or read/write. From there it took off like wildfire.
Ignoring the time wasted in the 'browser wars', the complaint about HTML was that it was not advanced enough for more complex documents. OpenDocument scratches that itch. And, being XML, browsers could even be made to render it. There's money in reducing work (and data) lost to format incompatibilities.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
That DTU now backs OpenDocument so prominently speaks to the potential that standard has in the world. Whether MS has more success at blocking OpenDocument than it did trying to block the web remains to be seen. Myself, I think not. If OpenDocument gains a small amount of marketshare, MS loses its monopoly on office formats. When the monopoly on the formats goes, so does the monopoly on office software. When that goes, the monopoly rents (aka over charging) go. Unless MS can between now and then generate some new profitable activity, all it will have left then is MS Windows. But without an office suite and formats tying people to Windows, it too will start to lose market share ...
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.