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Toronto to Become One Huge Hotspot
8127972 writes "The Toronto Star is reporting that Toronto Hydro is about to announce plans to make all of Toronto Canada a huge wireless hotspot. The project could go live as early as this fall and hopes to bring low cost Internet access to millions of Toronto citizens. In the process it will challenge the Canadian telcos for a share of the $8 billion (CDN) a year wireless market."
...just kidding - I realise it couldn't spread that far. Now, Etobicoke - *they* have something to cheer about!
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
Many people don't use public libraries anymore. Maybe the government should quit funding them. Afterall, the government has guns and forces me to pay, wheter I use it or not...
"To lead the people, you must walk behind them"
I've heard that Calgary, Alberta is looking at doing the same. Various companies in town have been asked to present proposals, ranging from cellular companies, telcos, isps, and tech firms. One of the latter I'm familiar with has proposed a cisco mesh solution using new aerospace gear. The plan is to use this network for emergency services and the like, at first anyway. Streaming video form security cameras to a squad car at 120mph for example. That = challenging for 802.11.
My name is coaxeus, and I approve this message. In fact, I think it is awesome.
Well, I spent a week in Toronto once. There were seemingly a lot of homeless people sleeping on the sidewalks every night. I'm not sure there is a better social service than making sure they have wireless Internet.
Ummmm maybe you need to look before you write - Toronto Hydro is not owned by the Canadian government.... not to mention there are like 10 different telco's in Toronto (ie Rogers, Bell, Telus etc.)
Rogers and Bell both operate HotSpot services in Canada.. Look for HotSpot stickers on the doors of your local Starbucks or Second Cup - as well as other places. They'll even charge it to your Bell or Rogers mobile phone bill...I think all the big Canadian mobile phone providers are in on the action.. even Telus.
_ services/hotspot.asp
. Solutions.Hotspots.page
s /hotspot.shtml
http://www.shoprogers.com/business/wireless/plans
http://www.bell.ca/shop/en_CA_BC/Sme.Sol.Wireless
http://www.telusmobility.com/on/business_solution
Actually, all the wireless companies in Canada: Fido, Bell, Rogers, Telus have been working on developing something called Hotspot ahref=http://www.canadianhotspot.ca/advancedsearch .asprel=url2html-24218http://www.canadianhotspot.c a/advancedsearch.asp>
I guess the CN tower kind of out does the linksys router +3dB antenna...
So I could walk around town using my voip phone instead of a cell phone? Maybe just my PDA with a VOIP client? GoogleTalk for all local calls!? w00t!
Big ones, small ones, some as big as yer 'ead!
Give 'em a twist, a flick o' the wrist...
This is the same company that went to the regulators and begged to have a "debt repayment" charge added to every consumer regardless if you were part of the original debt problem. Imagine being able to charge customers for your incompetance and making it clear you were doing so!
You may think that having Toronto as one huge hotspot, and I might even think it was cool too if these weren't true:
1. It's illegal to go off the grid.
2. I'm paying for Toronto Hydro's "debt" which consisted of millions of dollars in self-appointed executive bonuses, even when they had severly unbalanced budgets.
3. Toronto Hydro has blocked a lot of "green" ideas, every step of the way. Including subsidies to alleviate power problems.
4. We pay almost almost 10.00 per kw solar power/panel to make sure it's not a viable option.
5. Powering your house by Wind Power is illegal through "sound governance bilaws" even though the noise is quieter than an air conditioner.
6. They artificially "Froze" prices because of public pressure only to raise prices overall to MORE than it would have cost in the first place.
End Rant. Sorry, but it seems like a really cool thing, but like every other cool thing, this will come on the backs of those consumers who have no other choice but to allow them to spend money frivilously.
Yes I have options to go to "brokers", yes I have options to go "all gas", but when I investigated thouse routes, believe it or not, Toronto Hydro was the lesser of all evils.
Yo Grark
Canadian Bred with American Buttering
and look forward to discussing Curling, Beer, and Hockey with them.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
As a corporate security guy working in Toronto, I'm not happy to read that Comrade Miller is going to make life that much more difficult for me. Thanks to this initiative, there will be a wireless network running (our building is right downtown) that users can switch to whenever they feel like accessing something that our content filters reject!
Dvorak mentioned something in one of his columns sometime last year. Philadelphia was going to create a huge hotspot until the big boys got wind of what was going on. How did they deal with it? PAC -> State Legislature -> PAC -> Governor.
Bing Bang Boom.
Any towns or cities wishing to create a hotspot has to make it known publicly and give the commercial entities some time to decide what they want to do; i.e. right of first refusal, with a fourteen month window.
This is OTTOMH, but it's very close to what was reported.
I'm waiting to see how long it takes before VOIP are put into a similar position to where they cannot economically compete and will have to sell out to standard telcos. Or, standard telcos are provided some extra benefits in order to compete. I would view the 911 issue was one of the first arrows out of the quiver. Certain exceptions aside, nearly all monopolies were the result of gov't intervention "in the olden days" - ensuring they had enough of a market to remain competitive. These people are like Microsoft: they don't want to play second fiddle to anyone under any condition.
We're going to have to deal with something similar here in Indiana. Legislation has passed permitting telcos to compete head-to-head with cable systems. The issue was never raised, as most stats are not. 95% of the households in the US with access to cable have no choice regarding which cable provider. The cable lobbies said the telcos would only go after affluent markets (well, duh!) for better features and for some reason, that's not fair. The telcos said in competitive markets, cable prices easily dropped 25%. "Why would you want to pay 25% more for what you're already getting?" Boffins will observe a 25% discount is not the same thing as a 25% increase over the 25% discount. The telcos also promised "everyone who chooses the telco option plus those who subscribe to cable when that's the only [ground] option will have lower prices". That's a heck of a guarantee. I'd love to challenge them on a panel and ask them, "If that's not the case within five years, are you willing to pull out? If not, then why did you make that promise?"
This is just one more reason I need to move to Canada. As if I needed a reason.
This is a great idea.
1. Move to Toronto
2. Fire up packet sniffer of choice
3. Sniff a few million packets full of sensitive personal and financial data
4. ???
5. Profit!
These types of stories pop up on Slashdot once in a while... "City X to implement citywide wireless". I was just wondering what other cities have announced such plans. Which ones actually have working systems today?
SlagheapFirst against the wall when the revolution comes
I'm admittedly guessing, but I think that figure probably includes a whole lot of wireless technologies, not all of which are available to the average consumer. Yes, it includes cell technologies (GPRS being a completely acceptable -- if not hugely expensive -- way of accessing the Internet) -- cell technologies probably make up the great bulk of that figure. However, there are fee-based WiFi Hotspot providers here in Canada (generally in the larger centres), so they probably get counted too (such providers typically only provide service in specific venues -- for example, Bell AccessZone, which provides WiFi service in the Air Canada Centre, and in VIA Rail first class lounges (and on in first class sections of the Toronto - Montreal corridor trains).
It may also count satellite-based Internet, and could also possibly include microwave uplinks available to corporations. Without a breakdown it is difficult to know -- it appears to me that they're just throwing out a Really Big Number for investors to chew on. After all, who doesn't want a slice off of a Really Big Pie?
Yaz.
In fact, Toronto has by far the most popular public library system in North America:
g ename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1 139007013815&call_pageid=968350130169&col=96948320 2845
from: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pa
"Lending out a record 30.4 million books, CDs and videos in 2005 -- a 5 per cent jump from the previous year -- the TPL now boasts a circulation that is a full third larger than its closest continental counterpart, Bryant says. "It's not that we're in the lead by a small margin," Bryant says. "The next busiest library system in the United States (in Queens, New York) is around 19 million items circulated."
those areas without lamp posts (unpopulated areas) will not receive any coverage
You'd be hard-pressed to find a place in Toronto that is not within 20m of a lamp post. Seriously, take a quick look. Even if this initiative is meant to include the "greater toronto area" (i.e. the city and its suburbs), every home will still be close enough to a lamp post. So there may be a few parks in the suburbs where you can't get WiFi at the centre of the park... but that's about it.
Of course, this is all assuming that they actually put a WiFi station or repeater in 1/5 of all lamp posts. Toronto is huge and frankly I can't imagine how expensive it will be to add all that hardware. Some manufacturer is about to get a sweet contract, that's for sure.
I didn't know they had guns in Canada...
You obviously did not see "Bowling for Columbine". Canada has more guns than people. The movie asked why the U.S. is more violent than Canada. The issue could not be simply be guns as Canada has more guns than people. The movie briefly explored Canadian lifestyle , media content , etc...
You must be joking, right?
Maybe if the City of Windsor had decided to do this, your question would make sense, since they're across the river from each other.
Toronto is at least 3 hours drive away from Detroit -- and this is at 100kph/65mph -- you know, the entire length of Lake Eerie. Your laptop could never hope to broadcast back anything over those distances; the FCC would see to that.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Rate Plan
yes, I thought it's free. no, it's not.
Think you mean Ontario Hydro - not Toronto Hydro. TH merely bills you.
FAQ here
You should take a look at this graph
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
funny, last i checked, bell was the only telco with landlines in toronto. or ontario for that matter.
rogers -- cable company, primarily ontario, and national cellular provider. rolling out voip service. swapped cable territories with shaw, now rumoured to be buying shaw. one cable company for all!
telus -- ilec in bc and alberta, national cellular provider by buying out clearnet. rolling out tv service, wireless data service.
fido -- national cellular provider, now owned by rogers.
shaw -- cable company, western canada. rolling out voip service.
bell -- largest telco in canada, ilec in ontario and quebec. national cellular service, national satellite service. rolling out nationwide wireless data service.
sprint -- clec offering mainly business long distance service. partnered with fido for a home/cellular package.
at&t -- bought by manitoba telecom, renamed allstream.
despite the "deregulation" and "competition" introduced several years ago to canadian telecommunications, the only clec to make any use of it is really primus, who offer landline and long distance service, leased from whoever the ilec is in that province.
and, why can't americans ever get a canadian city location right? it's toronto ontario, not toronto canada. that's like saying chicago usa. how fitting. my confirmation word is gagging.
AFAIK we were the first city in NA to impliment it.
NO registration required (though you must agree to the EULA at sign on), and the city actually makes money from the ancillary services the municipal network provides to companies. A win-win in my book.
Yellowknife is considered a city because it's a capital ... though we only have like ~20,000 people... a company called SSI Micro has basically blanketed the city with WiFi...
http://www.ssimicro.com/
Yay we're on the bleeding edge North of 60!
I remember a friend of mine once told me how one of his friends got stuck in downtown Toronto (lives in a suburb called Brampton) so he ends up pan handling for some change to get home.
Turns out the money's so good he ends up staying an extra day and comes home with like $150! He was a teenager back and it's a lot of money for a teenager even by today's standards.
What $8 bln CDN /yr wireless market?
I think they're referring to all things sold that have no wires. Like pomegranates.
Old people fall. Young people spring. Rich people summer and winter.
8 billion CAD at today's conversion (March 6th, 2006) is: 0.877586
:)
So 8 billion x 0.877586 is: $7,020,688,000 USD just over 7 billion.
So they're going after a 7 billion USD market.
Well, what the heck else do you expect people to do there in the winter?
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Well, I spent a week in Toronto once. There were seemingly a lot of homeless people sleeping on the sidewalks every night. I'm not sure there is a better social service than making sure they have wireless Internet.
Seriously, Toronto is a Utopia compared to the homeless problem in Detroit. All cities have homeless people... And no amount of social services can solve the problem. Some cities need more social services though.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
I'm not sure where you got that idea from. "Typically" implies majority. The truth is a number of homeless about equal to the mentally ill do not like shelters because they are afraid of them. (I say this from having worked at CMHA.)
Shelters aren't hotel rooms. You have 20 - 30 packed into a room (within fire limits) and you rarely get a secure locker to put your belongings in. Also, in the cases where you do, it isn't a valet. No one is there to make sure you aren't persuaded to open your locker.
The available options are quite poor. I'm not saying they need Royal York treatment here. But a better option with some high guarantees of safety will see a number going to shelters during the cold winter months. It is a measure of a society's progress when you see how cities treat their most vulnerable. Toronto does a horrible job and too many people think, 'If they just try, they'll be fine.' It is a serious problem with difficult but attainable solutions - if we want it.
If this were really the case, we'd see a LOT MORE people out there begging rather than working at their crappy $10/hour jobs.
You are just spreading the conservative lies that the poor on the streets are lazy scammers. They are mentally ill. Not smart. Not rich.
Meh.
If it's in Canada, wouldn't it be called... err... a ColdSpot?
...at least that is my prediction.
Two converging factors are going to be a big positive net for rural communities. At the same time Verizon Wireless, Sprint, and Singular are all rolling out high speed connectivity through EVDO (or similar) offerings, big cities are breaking into the hotspot world, and other carriers are planning rollouts via powerlines and other schemes -- some really unusual ones like airships floating around and so on.
While its true that none of these are starting in rural communities and working IN toward the cities, a side effect of the increased competition in cities is that is is (or I think it is) putting more and more pressure on the cell carriers to roll their services out to the countryside much sooner and at much lower cost than previously planned.
They (the cell carriers) are quickly going to find that their "market differentiator" is going to once again be the ubuiquity of their service compared to the city wifi clouds. If your market strength is ubiquity, you'll spend more money making sure you cover more remote places. Hence, soon we'll have at least dsl comperable speeds available on EVDO cards in much more rural locations.
Sure, I know Verizon Wireless has "plans" to cover their whole digital area with EVDO. Let me tell you that it is a SLOW plan from the perspective of those of us who live in the sticks.
FWIW, I have an EVDO card in my laptop for when I travel, and find it HUGELY useful at airports, park benches, and even hotel rooms in most major cities now. Its about comperable to DSL -- maybe a little higher latency. Upload speed is much reduced compared to download speed of course. They don't want people uploading content or streaming media -- they want you buying videos.
Still, its often more reliable and faster than a hotel network. Just not at home. At home, its about dialup speed until they get EVDO turned on out here.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
Just because you're ignorant doesn't mean you're smart.
Carl Sagan said it best himself: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I'm one of millions of residents of Toronto, and I've lived here for almost a decade. Never have I experienced, nor heard of anyone experiencing energy fields that made sleeping unbearable. I also know many other residents who don't have physical and stress problems.
You're asking a lot of people if you expect them to assume that you have some extra-sensory abilities to feel energy waves (and make energy bubbles). As far as I know there isn't a single scientific study that supports those findings. If there is, I'm sure you could make some money off of James Randi.
Instead of throwing around terms like ignorant, how about throwing out some evidence? And when I say evidence, I mean studies involving many people in controlled conditions, not just some odd feeling you got.
I used to live in rural Manitoba (the boondocks), and nearly everyone had multiple hunting rifles, and the occasional shotgun - so I can pretty much confirm that (a) it's probably true, (b) it's people in the boonies, and (c) they're hunting rifles for animals, not hunting pistols for people.
Not me, though, although I did target shooting every once in a while.
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.