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The Trouble With Software Upgrades

Carl Bialik from WSJ writes "When software makers urge upgrades, it isn't always in users' best interest, the Wall Street Journal reports. Many upgrades bring advertising or other unwanted features; some iTunes users felt this way about a recent upgrade. But for many programs, downgrading can be a headache--Yahoo generally doesn't link to old versions of software, and Apple says iTunes can't be downgraded. Some websites can help with the problem. OldVersion.com, for instance, offers more than 600 versions of about 65 different programs. The site's 16-year-old administrator says, 'Companies make a lot of new versions. They're not always better for the consumer.'"

32 of 356 comments (clear)

  1. The problem with software companies by dada21 · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Here is a problem for most software companies, and one reason I would never invest in a publicly traded software company. It is also the prime reason that I sold off my portion of a private software company I had owned.

    The problem? Obsolescence.

    Software seems to be obsolete almost immediately after it is released. If a better product doesn't replace it, the product itself contains bugs that require a new release or at least a patch. The difficulty in pricing software is figuring out what percentage of the sale profit needs to be held back to cover long term support (updates and customer service).

    One way developers are recouping the expense of upgrades is by offering yearly support subscriptions, but these are better suited for corporations who desire a fixed budget. For the home user, I'm betting most prefer to buy a program once and desire a lifetime of upgrades. Recently I complained (to myself) about needing to rebuy a program that had been updated -- until I realized I hadn't bought a version from the company for 4 years!

    The end result is for the company to find others willing to pay for the upgrades. Users who desire something at a discount should be willing to at least admit that they're also part of the problem -- they tell the developers that they'll buy a product at a certain price, and they give the developers reason for finding ways to pay for that product in the long haul.

    In all the software I use (a ton of it between my businesses, my home, my side projects, my church congregation tech junk, and my family needs), very rarely does an upgrade work against me. In fact, I'd say 95% of upgrades I've performed in the past 10 years made me more efficient, even if they incorporated certain things I didn't like.

    If software wants to do something you don't want it to do, block it with your firewall. For me, that's the only necessary step.

    The final part of the quote: "They're not always better for the consumer" needs to be looked at differently. Updates that allow the developer to continue updating and supporting the software ARE good for the consumer, just maybe not in the "now" but in the long run. The time preference of the developer might be different than the consumer, but they have to be similar or the developer won't last.

    1. Re:The problem with software companies by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm betting most prefer to buy a program once and desire a lifetime of upgrades.

      no they prefre to see that program simply work for as long as they need it.

      Problem is that most "upgrades" are not that but bug fixes the software company decided to charge for. windows 98 for example was a windows 95 bugfix.

      Good software (Calendar creator for example) get a insane following behind it. Because it works and does not break at every turn and version 2.0 works just fine compared to version 5.8 so the customer is not interested in upgrading. Give th ecustomer a reason to upgrade and they typically do.

      But consumers look at their software like their camera. if it still takes pictures, why do I need to buy a new one?

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:The problem with software companies by Baseball_Fan · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The end result is for the company to find others willing to pay for the upgrades. Users who desire something at a discount should be willing to at least admit that they're also part of the problem -- they tell the developers that they'll buy a product at a certain price, and they give the developers reason for finding ways to pay for that product in the long haul.

      I could not disagree more strongly.

      What if the market place decided that cars will sell best at $10,000? But auto makers want to make $15,000. Would it be okay to make the car with a non-functioning radio, and then tell the consumers "We have an upgrade, it's better", but the new upgrade is a radio you can't turn off, filled with advertising. Or they tell you "we have an upgrade for your engine", but it is a GPS that collects data about where you go, so they can tell if you prefer Best Buy or Circuit City?

      If I want to spend $50 for software, then either there is software I can buy, or there is not. It is deceptive to sell software for $50, then turn around and hide spyware in it, invade my privacy, or find some other way to milk me for more money. If there is a security patch, or performance patch which corrects a programming mistake, then let me download the patch without any unwanted code.

      One other thing I hate is when there is an upgrade, and the end user can't stop it. For example, use AOL. It will download "upgrades" in the background. Even if you try and exit AOL, the upgrade will continue to download unless you unplug the phone line.

      There should be truth in advertising. And don't tell me there is an urgent security bug fix, but force me to accept a new EULA or take on new software. Just sell the software so it works. Stop double dipping.

    3. Re:The problem with software companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I agree with most of your points but I would draw a distinction that often gets lost. I feel that if I buy a piece of software and it has bugs in it, it is not living up to the expectations and is the responsibility of the developer to fix them at their expense. If the developer puts a new feature in 2.0, then I should expect to pay to get that new feature when I upgrade from 1.1. The problem (and I don't know that I have a solution for it) is that usually bug fixes and features are released at the same time in the same release. So all the people complaining that 1.1 is broken scream twice as loud that they have to pay for 2.0 just to get the fixes. Meanwhile the developer says "I did all this work and added XYZ and you want it for free?" Both sides have a legitamite argument. Since EULA haven't really had their day in court and most of them say "AS IS", most consumers get screwed when they buy a piece of software full of defects. Imagine if you bought a 2002 car only to learn the gas gauge was designed wrong and you have to buy a 2003 to get the fix. You'd scream Lemon-Law and the dealer/manufacturer would have to eat the cost. We need similar protection for all purchased items, software included. Separate the bug fixes from the new features when you talk about "upgrading".
      -Will

    4. Re:The problem with software companies by mellon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It does cost money to fix bugs, you know. You can argue that they ought not to have released the software with bugs, but it's just part of the cost equation - do I release now, with potential bugs, or release later, with no bugs? Do you want the software now, or later, or maybe not at all, because my company folded due to no revenue? Okay, so now you have the software, and it turns out not to be perfect. Do you want my company to stay in business so I can fix your problems, or go under?

      "Should" is a fairly useless word when it comes to commerce. "Works" is a better word.

      Anyway, if you don't like the process of using commercial software, there's a cure - go open source. :')

    5. Re:The problem with software companies by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Problem is that most "upgrades" are not that but bug fixes the software company decided to charge for. windows 98 for example was a windows 95 bugfix.

      I'm not even a Microsoft user or customer, and even I know that is not true. Win98 had real features beyond Win95. Win98 SE2 was a bugfix of previous Win98 releases. I don't know the details, but 98 over 95 added things like USB (although it never worked right) and CD burning and other new stuff that was not common in August of 1995 when Win95 was released.

      Now, as a system administrator who admins systems for users all over the world, I never "upgrade" software until I am convinced that it is broken and that the "upgrade" will fix what is broken. I will selectively apply patches if there is a known issue or if newly installed software requires a certain patch to be applied, but I do not upgrade an operating system or core software until it does not function anymore with newer software or something drastic has to happen before I do something drastic like break all of my user's applications and services.

      Again, as a computer professional and administrator, I always "upgrade" and play around on my personal machines and test boxes to see what is new and to learn from broken crap. I am not paid to break crap.

      Probably the worst company in the software industry that chronically breaks crap is Microsoft. It takes months for admins to verify if a service pack is acceptable for their 3rd party software and if it works at all. Probably the worst was when they changed their document formats between every release, and what really sucked was when people got new computers that came with the current release of Office and they could not exchange documents with the people that had an older version. Personally, I don't know why they had a single customer after the Office 95 to 97 fiasco or others. I have yet to understand why people accept broken software and telephones. My guess is that people have been conditioned to understand that they are always broken and that the "upgrade" will eventually fix these things. Perception and reality do not agree in this case.

    6. Re:The problem with software companies by srmalloy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      However, if you buy a program with the expectation, based on the advertising, box description, and manuals stating that the program will do [insert desired function here], and the program does the wrong thing when you use that function -- i.e., when you sum a column of numbers in a spreadsheet, the total is wrong, or the contents of a cut-and-paste change between cut and paste in a word-processing or graphics program -- then you should have a reasonable expectation that the software company is obligated to release a patch that fixes the problem, because the product that you have purchased is not the product that was described.

  2. What's Not To Like About Upgrades? by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    • Retraining
    • Initial loss in productivity
    • Data/Project Conversion
    • New Bugs
    • Cost (and Cost-to-Benefit of new features)
    • Potential Hardware / OS upgrades necessary
    • Bonus: The Murphy Factor - Is there something lurking in there which will make you very, very sorry at the worse possible time?

    I seriously hate it when someone says, "Here's the new release, it's going in right away!" That's where the term "Bleeding Edge" comes in.

    I typically upgrade when I feel I need to, i.e. there's some new feature which really is great or required for the work you do.

    Lastly, this guy is 16? Props!

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:What's Not To Like About Upgrades? by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Insightful
      While I understand the nature of a support contract as insurance it is a bit frustrating that my company pays a huge annual amount for this, we hardly (actually never while I was here) use it and if we want to keep it we have to run our business on their schedule, not ours.

      It's like a security blanket, I expect. If your vendor has really bad software (not likely support is going to be any better, is it?) people far removed from the realities will feel some sense of comfort that it's there.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:What's Not To Like About Upgrades? by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I 100% agree. But yet recently I was forced to upgrade our accounting system through two versions in a weekend. Why? Well a new manager came along and said "We're using an unsupported version? We must upgrade now!".

      "Who is more foolish? The fool or the fool that follows him?"

      -- Obi-Wan Kenobi

      Why is it that these middle management fucks make half informed decisions and then the professionals that know better just go along and everybody, including the middle management fuck, suffers?

    3. Re:What's Not To Like About Upgrades? by guitaristx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because the "professionals that know better" get fired for disagreeing.

      --
      I pity the foo that isn't metasyntactic
  3. Upgrade != Better by ArcherB · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Upgragde does not mean better. WindowsME was supposed to be an upgrade to 98SE. Trust me, it wasn't.

    The company I work for writes software. Trust me, I would not recommend anyone to buy the first release of any upgrade we offer. Wait until it gets about 30 or 40 builds and becomes stable.

    I guess you could say that the reliability of software is like a wave: It goes up until a major release, then it drops down to the bottom and starts working it's way back up again. When the software becomes perfectly reliable and feature complete, it's time to release a new version, and down we go again.

    --
    There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
  4. 2 Words: Windows Vista by ToxikFetus · · Score: 1, Insightful

    'nuff said

  5. You often don't have a choice if you want support by lohphat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...when you call the outsourced, scripted tech-cupport center.

    "Are you running the latest version?"

    "No."

    "Well, we need you to install it so we can diagnose your problem."

    ---

    More often than not the upgrade is better, it's the 5% of times when it's a pain. Due to software development and support being a resource hog, vendors are quick to abandon older versions instead of developting patch trains for multiple releases.

  6. Newer versions are mostly good for the seller by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    not necessarily good for the customer.

    Why do companies make new version?

    1. To fix bugs
    2. To introduce new features
    3. To fix hacks.

    Now, a bugfix is usually a good thing. If the bug applies to you (like, when your certain combination of graphics card, CPU and mainboard doesn't enjoy having unmutex'ed multithreading that works allright on the test setup... don't laugh). If not, the bugfix is nice but unnecessary.

    A feature add on is usually pointless. If you buy some software, you buy it for the features it has, not for the features it might have somewhere in the future. I stopped buying software on promises, I buy it on tests and reviews. If it has what I want, I buy. If it does not, I don't. Simple binary logic. So when a new version has a new feature, most of the time I don't need it.

    So what remains is the big reason that has NO benefit for the customer and ONLY benefits for the seller. To close holes that allowed you to do with the thing what its manufacturer didn't want you to do. This can be anything from a "crack" (yeah, like the new version can't be cracked... but that's not the point) to actual firmware upgrades of certain well known companies that also distribute rootkits that should make sure that you use ONLY games that they deem appropriate for the area you're in. We're not even talking illegal copies here, we're talking region protection.

    So much for the global market.

    So who benefits from version updates? You? Or the manufacturer?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  7. Re:Obvious first thought upon reading: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    "And rain is wet."

    However at this time of the year it can freeze when it hits the ground, or other objects like cars and power lines. Then its not wet.

  8. Winamp.. by xtal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Winamp version 5.old users, unite!

    I vowed never to upgrade after I found out that they took measures to discourage ripping of broadcasted mp3s.. ala streamripper. Nevermind I don't need ads, and the existing version works just great for my purposes. That was what, in 2000 or something.. I forget the exact details now.

    Computers are about performing tasks, not running software. If it doesn't do new tasks, or old tasks (much better), why upgrade?

    --
    ..don't panic
  9. iTunes & feature bloat by teamhasnoi · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Anyone recall the removal of the abillity to stream your library over the net? Made it a real pain in the ass to listen to stuff from home on your work computer. (I'm the admin, so I yell at myself daily for doing it, thanks.)

    Of course, 3rd party stuff that replaced the functionality quickly surfaced, but it all feels very hacky.

    On the other side of the coin, there's the dreaded feature bloat. Take Adobe's Acrobat for instance - every new version has come with extra features, and exponentially longer start times. Ugh.

    So many reasons not to upgrade. If you have a computer used for recording, you quickly learn to never fix what ain't broke. I am one of the few using SP2 successfully with my audio hardware, which is no longer being made. Of course, Windows doesn't make things any easier to back out of an upgrade.

    Mac = rename old version, test new, toss new. Windows = huh? Some files could not be removed? Why doesn't this work anymore? I uninstalled it. Aw, hell. System restore...damnit! Time to nuke, and reinstall. Repeat. Oh, no...

  10. Two words: Windows XP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If software wants to do something you don't want it to do, block it with your firewall. For me, that's the only necessary step.

    What about when it does LESS than the previous version?

    My box got infested with the Sony malware, thanks to my daughter. I'd stupidly lost the driver disks for my video card and audio chip, and there were no versions on the internet I could find that worked with 98; all were for XP.

    I've found absolutely zero increased functionality with XP over 98. None whatever. (If one of you kind souls would point something out that XP will do that 98 wouldn't, please point it out... and not Microsoft's laughable firewall, I use Zone Alarm).

    There are programs that ran just fine in 98 that XP won't run. And what's an OS for? Running your software.

    However, I can no longer burn multisession CDs, which really pisses me off. I record friends' music, then put it on CD with MP3s in the extended portion.

    Not any more. Thanks, Microsoft, for taking my hundred dollars and leaving me with LESS functionality!

    1. Re:Two words: Windows XP by pete6677 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not to mention, 98 has no support for multiple users or even a meaningful password lock system. And it is a complete nightmare in a networked environment. 98 might be fine for home users that don't do anything serious, but it will not (definitely should not) be found in a corporate environment.

  11. Apple, iTunes and DRM by babbling · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Apple are very unfair to their users when it comes to iTunes software updates. In some cases, the update is necessary for a particular feature to work, or for iTunes to support the latest iPod. The updates also change what users are allowed to do with the DRM songs that they have purchased from the iTunes Music Store, though.

    So, when you buy a song from the iTunes Music Store, you might THINK you know what you're getting, but Apple seem to feel that they have the right to change the deal AFTER you have purchased the song. It applies to all of the songs you have purchased, not just the songs you purchase after Apple change their minds about what they want to let you do with your/their music.

    I think this is what will become a classic case of a company abusing the power that DRM gives them. Consumer groups should be all over this, because Apple ITMS customers are not really receiving the products they paid for. I don't really believe a silly EULA means that Apple's customers have signed away all of their rights.

  12. Re:Anyone who has ever used Quickbooks Enterprise by ROOK*CA · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ouch, that sux... BTW now might be a good time to hit management up for a testing environment. :)

  13. The Internets Are A Great Resource for Pirates by Phosphor3k · · Score: 2, Insightful

    OMG, the internets are a great resource for bomb-making, and finding whores, and pirating software and music and movies.

    Whats your point? Oldversion.com is a tool with a very legitimate use. Just like anything else, it has the potential to be used in nefarious ways.

    BTW, Congratulations on no longer being a criminal.

  14. Re:Pointless article, oldversion.com? by RandoX · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But they would have to prove that you downloaded it from them, and clicked "I agree" yourself, right? You aren't bound by another party's agreement if you downloaded it from a third party, who didn't offer the same download agreement.

  15. Re:Upgradeitis by Zerbs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think part of that comes from the constant news about how we need to update our software because of virus X or worm Y or some other vulnerability Z. People have been conditioned to believe for example that weekly updates to Microsoft Windows is a normal and good thing.
    There are people who do fall too easily to the marketing hype of a "new and improved" version though. Part of the marketing strategy of using the year in the name of a product is to make it feel old to a user, even if it hasn't necessarily outlived its usefullness.

    --
    "22 astronauts were born in Ohio. What is it about your state that makes people want to flee the Earth?" Stephen Colbert
  16. Re:Upgradeitis by ROOK*CA · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think part of that comes from the constant news about how we need to update our software because of virus X or worm Y or some other vulnerability Z. People have been conditioned to believe for example that weekly updates to Microsoft Windows is a normal and good thing.

    I think you hit the nail right on the head here, Microsoft has do a great deal to condition the response from users. For any of us that provide informal "tech support" to our friends & family (or as a full time job) know that it can be somewhat of a difficult proposition to explain "Yeah you need to keep up to date with Microsoft updates, but as far as your applications, check with me before you upgrade any of them it'll save you some potential hassles", to which the standard reply generally goes something along the lines of "What do you mean by applications?". :)

  17. Re:They finally noticed? by PitaBred · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think it's more that the people who read the WSJ quite possibly don't know this. My parents or my brother wouldn't. Most casual users wouldn't. Sometimes what's obvious to one person highly entrenched in a "culture" isn't at all obvious to someone outside of it.

  18. Re:Pointless article, oldversion.com? by FLEB · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Nope, you're bound by copyright law, which says that you still can't redistribute it.

    --
    Information wants to be free.
    Entertainment wants to be paid.
    You just want to be cheap.
  19. Re:You often don't have a choice if you want suppo by MrNougat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    On the other hand, how long should a vendor have to provide support for a piece of software? Should Broderbund still have to provide phone support for The Print Shop v2.0 (1994)?

    If software companies can't end-of-life products, and have to support them indefinitely, the cost of vendor support becomes insanely high.

    In the US auto industry, car manufacturers are required to produce replacement parts for a model for seven years.* Perhaps a regulation of that kind would be good for software/hardware vendors, too.

    *Except Yugo, what with the giant war and everything.

    --
    Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
  20. Re:Upgradeitis by Ra+Zen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One major reason for upgradeitis is that many programs will flash "upgrade now" boxes so often that it interferes with program function and annoys the heck out of you. Sometimes you have to upgrade just to get the darn things to GO AWAY. Cases in point: Windows Media Player (newest version is the worst ever BTW) Adobe Acrobat

  21. To summarize the "doh" factor: by Kjella · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Features and bugs = carrot and stick. Every version is to give you enough new buggy features to make you want to upgrade to the next version after that. If you haven't figured that out by now, you really shouldn't be in IT or sales in general.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  22. F&#*$ing Intuit is a MAJOR problem this way. by CFD339 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I used to love my Quickbooks. That was 10 years ago. Now, every new version adds more advertising built in then the last, puts more stuff in web browser style (or actual in some cases) interfaces, and starts costing more money.

    Worse, they don't support common file interchanges and actually make it as hard as possible to use them, instead forcing me to pay THEM for the privilidge of connecting to my back. They also charge my bank, or charges me too! All this, for what should be free.

    What stinks, is that MS Money small business is unusable (and talks to me -- which is even worse) and the other products out there are insanely expensive.

    I've looked for one that runs in linux natively, but not found anything workable yet (I'd still love one that did).

    Grrrrr. I've gone form loving to hating Intuit in just 3 years. What a shame.

    --
    The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln