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Live Demo CD of Microkernel-Based TUD:OS Released

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the yet-another-contender-in-the-os-sweepstakes dept.

Norman Feske writes "The OS Group of Technische Universität Dresden (TUD:OS) has released a live demo CD of their custom operating system project. TUD:OS is a microkernel-based operating system targeted at secure and real-time systems. Some highlights of the demo CD include a new approach for securing graphical user interfaces called Nitpicker, multiple L4Linux kernels running at the same time on top of a custom L4 microkernel, a survey on the reuse of device drivers on the TUD:OS platform, native Qt-applications, the DOpE windowing system, games, and a lot more. More information is available at the demo CD website demo.tudos.org. And yes, there are screenshots, too!"

28 of 103 comments (clear)

  1. you convinced me by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...the DOpE windowing system...

    That's all I needed right there. I'm checking this out right now.

    --
    This guy's the limit!
  2. TURD OS by Anoraknid+the+Sartor · · Score: 3, Funny

    so near, and yet so far....

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  3. in debian by Janek+Kozicki · · Score: 2, Funny

    so in debian a package kernel-image*.deb was renamed to linux-kernel*.deb just so that packages netbsd-kernel*.deb, hurd-kernel*.deb or openbsd-kernel*.deb can be added. Now I'm anxious to see plans for including tudos-kernel*.deb in debian.

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    1. Re:in debian by Godji · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sure, just give it the usual 13 years or so to get stable.

  4. FINALLY! by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hurray for TUD:OS! Kudos for actually managing to get a functional but custom operating system into working live-CD form.

    The system architecture looks fine and dandy (L4 is a pretty good base microkernel), and I love the capability to make this system perform 9 different scenarios, including running L4Linux for when they lack their own software.

    Mazl tov!

    1. Re:FINALLY! by RatOfTheLab · · Score: 2, Funny

      Indeed, KUD:OS to TUD:OS

  5. If they managed to create something like this... by 10Ghz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why is HURD still nowhere near finished (as in: ready to be used)?

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  6. Whats with the linux thing by tecker · · Score: 2, Funny

    Ok they specify that this "L4Linux" is a modified kernel to allow linux programs to run. Now is it using a virtualiztion layer and running a FULL kernel or is it a PARTIAL kernel that simply provides familliar hooks that the real linux kernel uses.

    If it is a Partial kernel do they have plans to include something like Xen to allow for the use of this as a server base and then have linux on top?

    Somebody set me strait.

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  7. Anyone have a torrent? by jarom · · Score: 5, Informative

    Anyone have a torrent, or has downloaded the ISO and can make one?

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  8. Trusted computing by js_sebastian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This kind of thing goes to show that an OS designed for security can provide it without the need for the so called "trusted computing": the user can still have the machine entirely under your own control.. programs can be isolated from each other so that keylogging and other spyware techniques do not work, but the user can still do what the hell he wants with his machine (including tampering with the "secure" applications he is using if he wants to).

  9. Re:If they managed to create something like this.. by rubycodez · · Score: 2, Informative

    HURD was aiming to be a general purpose OS, not a realtime or embedded secure OS. That said, just by looking at its CVS, looks like HURD became undead over a year ago. It's ok, GNU has given us everything else an operating system needs, probably Linux and the BSDs sapped the life & development mindshare out of HURD.

  10. TurdOS, Dope by zerojoker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    and I always thought that germans are known to have no sense of humor...

  11. Explanation of the naming by Florian · · Score: 4, Informative

    "TUD:OS" is simply an acronym of "Technical University Dresden Operating System". Their computer science department has done amazing work on the l4 microkernel, and continues to release all its code under free licenses, btw.

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  12. Re:If they managed to create something like this.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    They keep having to rewrite it, because the hardware is improving faster than the ability of EMACS to bog it down.

  13. Re:It's German, eh ? by LightningBolt! · · Score: 3, Funny

    So why do the turn indicators on Mercs and BMWs never work?

    Based purely on observation, I'd guess it has something to do with radio interference from the drivers' cell phones.

    --
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  14. Re:It's German, eh ? by Hakubi_Washu · · Score: 2, Funny

    Because they have a built-in right of way (they are expensive enough for that :-P)

  15. I trust myself. by js_sebastian · · Score: 5, Insightful
    That's assuming the user can be trusted
    I don't care if they trust me. I'm the one buying the computer and I trust myself to use it however I see fit (and if I break any laws with it I can be tried for it, same as with my kitchen knife if I use it to stab someone).

    Aside from this, it's true that having a hardware safe for cryptographic private keys (the fritz chip) is sound from a security perspective (while takign control of what the chip will or will not sign away from the user is bad).

    The reason I was comparing this TUD OS with TC is that the intel and AMD TC platforms both implement memory curtaining to isolate programs from one another, which this project seems to do quite nicely with a software-only solution.

    And let me rebuke this OT but blatantly false line:
    DRM is irrelevent to those who don't possess or have any intention of possessing illegal copyrighted content.
    It is relevant to anyone who has any interest to legally buying content which is sold with DRM restrictions. Even in the best of worlds, where the content sellers play nice, DRM stops me from playing something I bought from company X on anything but the players approved by company X. (iTunes audio files on anything but an iPod?). And if company X goes out of buisness or just decides not to support that format anymore you may be unable to play those files ever again.

    And in the real world, companies which can effectively write a different copyright law for each piece of content will use this to their advantage and to the user's disadvantage: to milk more money by selling the same stuff multiple times, and to hinder interoperability in anti-competitive ways.
    1. Re:I trust myself. by shmlco · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "And if company X goes out of buisness or just decides not to support that format anymore you may be unable to play those files ever again."

      So true. In fact, just yesterday I was trying cram my vast collection of 8-tracks, reel-to-reel tapes, LPs, and cassettes into that thin little slot on the front of my car stereo. Not only did it not work, but now I need a new car stereo.

      The point being, of course, that we bought into all of those different types of media knowing their limitations, and also knowing full well that they were not going to last forever. Same with everyone's favorite example, iTMS. I know the limitations, have yet to come close to hitting them, and always have the CD-burning "out" if need be.

      As long as my notebook and mini run in their existing configuration, I can play my music. Should Apple look like it's about to die, I'll snap up a spare. Which is much as it it was with my turntable, reel-to-reel, and cassette player. My 8-track player, however, is dead, Jim....

      --
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    2. Re:I trust myself. by I(rispee_I(reme · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, but one of the supposed improvements that were hyped when "we bought into" CD's was that they would not degrade over time as do analog formats*. DRM is an attempt to artificially degrade a digital product.

      This was unusually accurate for marketing hype, as now the short-sighted music executives are faced with legions of people making legitimate copies of their legitimately-paid-for CD's, and not needing to relicense their songs.

  16. Re:Trusted Complaining. by onkelonkel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "DRM is irrelevent to those who don't possess or have any intention of possessing illegal copyrighted content."

    Wow, is that statement ever wrong. As wrong as could be. "None more wrong"

    Generally DRM only affects legitimate users. If I buy a copy protected CD I get the DRM. If I download the same music from shareaza - No DRM. DRM is very relevant when it prevents legal purchasers of content from legitimate "fair use" of that content. If DRM means I can't rip the CD I just bought to put the music on my MP3 player, or make a backup copy of my kid's DVDs then it is most certainly relevant.

    On the other hand DRM is at most an inconvenience to hackers , pirates and other users of "illegal copyrighted content" . I can't think of one form of copy protection that hasn't been cracked.

    --
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  17. How does this compare to HURD? by Sam+Haine+'95 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    multiple L4Linux kernels running at the same time on top of a custom L4 microkernel
    Sorry if this is a stupid/obvious question, but is this similar to HURD?
    1. Re:How does this compare to HURD? by Abcd1234 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not really, no. The HURD is a project to implement a Unix-like API on top of a microkernel (originally Mach, now L4) as a set of servers. This is distinctly different from running an entire Linux kernel as a single L4 process (which is what is done with L4Linux).

    2. Re:How does this compare to HURD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      At a glance, it looks like they have something like the HURD:

      L4VFS is the IO infrastructure for a Posix-like multi-server system on top L4 and DROPS. It comprises a set of client-side libraries gluing together typical C library functions in the client and a service providing set of servers on the other side. In the demo we show how terminal IO works, demonstrate some VT100 escape sequence magic, GNU Readline Library support and file system browsing.

      which seems seperate from their Linux kernel:

      L4Linux is a port of the Linux kernel to L4 and makes it possible to run unmodified Linux programs on top of L4. In the L4Linux demo we will show how L4Linux integrates in an L4 system and point out several different usage scenarios in which L4Linux can be used. The actual demonstration focusses on launching multiple instances of L4Linux, until the system resources are exhausted. More deployments of L4Linux can be seen in the other demonstrations.

  18. That's great. by Kickasso · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder if they're able to load closed-source drivers like nvidia, and have accelerated OpenGL graphics...

  19. HURD delays by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2006-03 /msg00091.html seems to indicate that the devs are still discussing HURD...

    ...of course HURD is the Gargantuan Ancient Granddaddy of Cathedral vs Bazaar style development ...

    http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/samizdat-respons e.html

    ...I can tell you exactly why the HURD tanked. It was listening to a presentation by HURD's project lead in 1996, and realizing the project was doomed, that started me on the train of thought that led to "The Cathedral and the Bazaar". They were trying to do engineering and pure R&D at the same time; they lacked focus or any drive to actually ship code; and their development group was too small and inbred.
  20. Effective DRM vs your rights... by argent · · Score: 2, Insightful

    DRM is irrelevent to those who don't possess or have any intention of possessing illegal copyrighted content.

    That should read...

    "DRM is irrelevent to those who don't possess or have any intention of possessing copyrighted content."

    It doesn't matter if it's legal or not, even if I have no intention of buying DRM-protected content legally, DRM restricts what I can do with my own computer. Any even minimally effective DRM scheme will require draconian restrictions. Hardware that only boots cryptographically signed kernels. Kernels that only load cryptographically signed drivers. Access controls based on cryptographically signed applications. Applications that only use cryptographically signed libraries.

    It's possible that for all these stages there will be escapes, so that the various secure components will have a way to relinquish their rights and load insecure content so I can still use a media player to play back the recording I made of a class I gave even if I've had to install a patched driver to fix a problem with my computer... but I wouldn't put money down on it.

    And you never know what you will need to run. I mean, there's already public material... recordings of town hall meetings and the like... only distributed in proprietary and undocumented streaming formats.

  21. Naming??! by cerberusss · · Score: 2, Funny
    From the screenshots:

    ...applications running natively on the L4/Fiasco microkernel

    Indeed, a complete fiasco ;-)

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  22. Re:Not impressed by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 3, Informative
    First, I had to install proprietary software, mvplayer, to run it.

    Wrong.

    It runs in qemu just fine. It's even described on their site how to do it.

    And you can always burn it onto a physical CD-Rom, and boot it up in a physical machine.

    several of the demos didn't supply a "reboot" option so I had to exit the whole thing, delete the vmware files, except the vmx, and refire wmplayer so I could get the tudos menu again. It's been years since I've run a Linux distro that was this buggy or hard to use.

    It's a CD-based demo, so your vmware files won't have "state" in them anyways. Just kill your vmware, and restart it, without wiping any files.