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Reflections on the Holy Trinity

1up has a piece looking at gaming's future by reflecting on gaming's past. What do the launches of older systems teach us to expect from the PS3's ... eventual debut. From the article: "Shouts of 'Dreamcast' ... fall a little flat when you consider that Dreamcast was more of a last-ditch attempt from a company that hadn't turned a profit in 10 years. Microsoft isn't bowing out anytime soon, which means that being out in front will probably be an advantage -- by the time Sony launches, the 360 will be over the launch hiccups and rolling with a steady stream of new software. On the other hand, if Blu-ray is as big for the PS3 as DVD was for the PS2, Microsoft could find itself technologically inferior -- a direct consequence of its rush to market. "

11 of 139 comments (clear)

  1. I don't care... by Sensible+Clod · · Score: 2, Insightful

    what anybody says, last-ditch or whatever, the Dreamcast is still comparable with almost anything on the market today, purely from a technological (read: graphics quality) standpoint.

    --

    The difference between spam and poop is that you don't have to dig through septic tanks looking for real food. -- Me
    1. Re:I don't care... by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Gamecube is clearly superior, the Dreamcast ports it got (and there were many during the second year or so) were usually enhanced quite a bit and still nowhere near the GC native games in graphical quality.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    2. Re:I don't care... by tedgyz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      what anybody says, last-ditch or whatever, the Dreamcast is still comparable with almost anything on the market today, purely from a technological (read: graphics quality) standpoint.

      Reminds me of the Amiga. Technically superior in almost every way to it's peers, but poorly handled by the owning company.

      I wasted nearly 10 years of my life being an Amiga bigot. Then I realized the thing that matters more is availability and cost of software. I jumped to the Wintel platform in '97 and haven't looked back. I would rather suffer the weaknesses of the most popular platform than suffer the isolation of a minority platform. Oh, and all you Apple bigots that want to reply - I'm not listening. La la la la la.

      Interestingly, I learned this lesson at my day job. I was working for the HP Unix Workstation division (previously Apollo Computer). We had a huge launch where we blew away the competition in raw CPU performance. In the end, it had little effect on market share. Sun learned early on to woo the developers with cheap workstations that drove sales of big iron to support the software they built.

      It is this same logic the compells me to drive GM cars/trucks. Parts and repairs are cheaper.

      --
      "No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
  2. Let's take a hint from the financial world by aralin · · Score: 3, Insightful
    This reminds me of the quote I keep reading in all fine print for every mutual fund: "Past results are no guarantee of future performance".

    While it is true that history tends to repeat itself, every time when someone tries to divine the future from the past they make the same fatal mistake that makes their predictions totally useless. They simply take into account too short section of the past, quite often only few years, instead of few centuries and their predictions are directed on a too close future, often few months or years rather than decades. Anyway, I don't think this trend is going to stop anytime soon and so here we go with yet another useless prediction.

    --
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    1. Re:Let's take a hint from the financial world by MBCook · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Quite true. Sega was a great company that had a lot of success but the Dreamcast (which was a nice system) was not very successful (at least in the US).

      But let's look at recent history.

      Sony's released the highly anticipated PS2 with a rather meager launch lineup, and the system took off like a juggernaught after a while. The PSP was launched with much anticipation and we haven't seen too much of it since then. It is still there, and it isn't dead, but it wasn't the huge hit many expected it to be. The games aren't helping. (I must admit, I expected the system to take off after GTA: LCS came out and it didn't happen).

      Microsoft launched the XBox among much skepticism and speculation that it was more powerful, and the system did fine (not financially, but in general). They launched the 360 to skepticism and speculation that it was more powerful, and is doing fine.

      Nintendo launched the GameCube cheap, and it did very well. They launched the DS (which many people thought would be the next VirtualBoy, which was a great system with fantastic games, BTW) and after a short time without many games it has been picking up steam ever since. The system is HUGE in Japan and popular here in the states. Games are all over the map from traditional to experimental and from hard-core to "non-gamer".

      Expect MS and Sony to be much like the last generation. Sony may falter some, the XBox may do better. The Revolution is the wild card. It will either be much like the 'Cube (a great system that is beloved by owners but not big like the PS2) or it will take off like the NES did leaving competitors in it's dust. Either way, I'll be happy.

      I can't wait for the Rev, and I can't wait for GDC and E3 when we should find out more about all the systems.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  3. Course we can go another way by falcon5768 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    In the effect of Microsoft still has some hiccups 6 months or more down the line thanks to its rather lame game lineup, Sony shoots it's self in the foot with Blu-ray, and Nintendo instead takes the lead with its realization that 90% of the people dont want a uber system for 500 dollars, but would rather a 200 dollarish system that plays fun games, does it well, is backwards compatable, and has some inovative features (like the controller)

    I have said it before but I think the gaming industry in its thrust to make people spend computer system like amounts of money and to add the absolute best crap to their system without really testing it are prepping themselves for another video game crash like 81. And we ALL know who came out tops after that one.

    --

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    1. Re:Course we can go another way by maumedia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I keep hearing this "nintendo is going to sweep the market" line from fanboys.

      What market are you referring to? Because I don't know anyone in my circle of friends, online and off, that could care less about the Rev. Maybe I have a biased circle, but all current consoles are represented.

      I bought a Cube for RE4, which was totally worth $100+game. Outside of that, as a "mature" gamer, I could pass on the entire game library other than RE4.

      Are people really itching to play NES games that badly? It seems to me that current games don't really do well if the graphics are a few months out of date. The "retro" market is a complete fabrication, as far as I'm concerned.

    2. Re:Course we can go another way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That... really is a lot of unsupported assertions.

      I can see nothing positive about the future that faces the XBox 360, but the claims you are making here are so extreme... well, you're so optimistic about the PS3's situation that I can't help but think there's some wishful thinking going on here.

      Can you actually demonstrate any of the following:

      4) The defect rate is clearly massive no matter how hard Microsoft tries to spin the situation

      Your source? All I've heard is anecdotal evidence from people on message boards going "Zomg 360s failing everywhere", and others on message boards going "zomg the 360 is an invincible tank of perfection". I don't know a single person who owns a 360 in real life, so I can't really comment. All I know is that there have been failures, and I see no objective reason to think the numbers have been either large or small. I don't see what's so clear about anything.

      ATI clearly botched the graphics system on the 360 badly. The system sounds like a nightmare for developers to code for. From the too small EDRAM forcing developers to write performance draggin tile renderers to the slapped together CPU leading to massive memory and cache bottlenecks.

      I haven't even heard this. Your source, and how do you know it's a real problem and not just some trumped up thing from message boards? The (not necessarily unbiased) comments I've heard so far indicate that the 360's only strength is the lack of bottlenecks in the CPU->GPU communication, whereas at least one major potential bottleneck has been identified in the PS3 already.

      And what's worse is you are stuck with the Xbox DirectX API acting like a pair of cement shoes for developers to have to work around.

      Where on earth did you get that from? My understanding was that the DirectX API was the greatest strength of the XBox, offering a clean and well-engineered API while Nintendo and Sony's developer tools suffered from a distinct lack of effort. What's so bad about DirectX?

      If the Xbox 360 isn't in fact the bottleneck-free happy cacheland that it's been made out to be I'd be curious to hear about it, but I'd prefer to actually have sources rather than just take an AC on slashdot at face value.

  4. Why is Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD!) such a deal maker? by 2Flower · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm not understanding this. These two new video formats do... what, exactly? Nothing, beyond showing higher quality digital video. Which is utterly useless unless you have an HD-TV, which is not exactly a universal standard.

    When the PS2 hit, it revolutionized / popularized DVDs. Why? Because a DVD cost at worst $25 at the time, and that's a good cheap buy. Couple that with the value you get out of having a combo game system and DVD player (since DVD players were expensive to buy seperately) and that's a no brainer money saver.

    But now, if you want to take advantage of Blu-Ray, you need a multi-thousand dollar television, and potentially more expensive movies. Which is NOT as much of a no-brainer as the PS2 was.

    On top of all that, we're rapidly approaching the point where we've gone as high-def as we realistically NEED to go. For a lot of folks, standard DVD is "fine." The upgrade is too expensive and the reward too low when you've got a workable solution; this isn't like VHS tapes which could degrade over time, had blatantly inferior video quality, and interactive features. DVD has plenty going for it and all HD adds on top is more rez, which while nice, isn't important enough.

    No. The video capability is not going to be what sells the PS3. It's a nice bonus but not as critical as the game library is at this point. (And given the 360's scrawny library, including unimpressive entries on the release chart, the PS3 has a good chance to sieze advantage...)

  5. The price point problem by Animats · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The real problem with the upcoming generation of consoles is that they cost much more than the previous generation, and they're not that much better. No way can the PS3 launch successfully at some $700-$800 price point. The XBox 360 is encountering serious price resistance at $299.

    Microsoft has been losing money in their game business since the original XBox launch. Their stock has been flat for five years, and the stockholders are starting to get annoyed with the money drain. Microsoft may at some point be pushed into "concentrating on their core business area". Losing money forever isn't a business.

  6. Crash of '81 by Brownstar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And we ALL know who came out tops after that one.

    I do, but I don't think you do.

    None of the current hardware makers made it out. Only new console makers that came into the market after the crash did well.

    So if history repeats itself, how does that help Nintendo?

    If history repeats itself, then it's more likly that the Phantom will come out on top rather than the Revolution