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Refurbishing PCs For Charity?
Used PC Guy asks: "I'm trying to run a program to recycle PCs for charity to give to underprivileged kids. Trouble is, these kids have never seen a PC. What should I teach the kids if they're about 14-21? Should I teach Windows, Linux or both? What hardware should I be requesting, and what's the best way to test the influx of hardware that's coming in quickly, efficiently and reliably to make sure won't need servicing within another 6 months?"
If any donated Pentium 3 machines come in with Win 98 and at least 6 gigabytes of RAM, how about dual booting them with Windows 98 using 2 gigs and Unbuntu on the remainder. And if they're older machines, keep in mind Ubuntu Lite (haven't tried the lite version yet myself but plan to in the next few days).
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallingUbuntuLite
http://www.ubuntulite.org/
Yes, Windows is more popular. Linux will give the kids a harder time, and they will be disappointed that they can't run all the software that they expected. However, it will be a learning experience for them. Some families will take it off right away and replace it with Windows, but others will stick with linux. Those kids might get exposed to software that will inspire them to learn more about computers and study them later in life. It's very difficult to learn about computers when you learn Windows. I know this because I was raised with Windows and came away from it with almost nothing.
Most people just use Windows and don't learn much of anything. Also, do you really want to pay for Windows licenses?
Somewhere on MS's site it has a page about if you can receive donated Windows licenses and terms
Yeah, sure, and then they make you jump thru hoops by having the original bill of sale when the SPA comes calling. And they will, bet the farm on it as you are a VERY high profile target.
Put something like Ubuntu-5.10 on them. These people may not be already windows indoctrinated to the point that they can't learn how to run firefox in 5 minutes, and get their email setup and running in 15, most of which is negotiating a connection to the net from their ISP of choice. Make sure iptables, portsentry and tcpwrappers are installed and setup for outgoing requests establishing the path, and trash ANYTHING that comes in un-invited. And setup the update tool to do it every night, or if its not on then, makes sure anacron knows about it by makeing sure its running in the startup.
That combination is pretty bullet proof, I've had 3 attacks get as far as the log before they were turned off absolutely in 3 years on a dsl circuit. And 2 of those came from known addresses as they were from compromised DNS servers at my ISP, verizon. They're windows lovers, obviously.
You may have a few more questions to field early in the game, but in the end you will have made a new generation of computer savvy people who are NOT slaves to the M$ machine in Redmond. And that is of course a very desirable thing at the end of the day, you have shown that the M$ way is NOT the only way, and the linux way is far more secure.
Handle the root access by making them prove enough knowledge to be able to handle it before you give it out. That will save a lot of phone calls right there.
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Cheers, gene
Really I think you're going to have two problems. The first is simply getting machines with ancient (windows 95/98/ME) operating systems on them. Getting legal modern Windows operating systems is either going to be expensive, or the hardware you have simply won't run it. (Driver issues, low memory, etc). Honestly I'd really avoid going down the route of using any Windows OS before Windows 2000. 95/98/ME are really dinosaurs these days, and no one should be giving away machines with them on it.
So, while other people are telling you to run Windows because it's standard and it's what kids will encounter, I'm going to tell you to run Linux because it's cheap, will support most of the hardware, has drivers built in that will auto-detect, etc. Ultimately you really want to only be supporting one operating system. The best OS for that job is going to be Linux. It's really no fun trying to hunt down what video card each of the 10 different machines you have sitting around.
Honestly for kids 14-21 the OS doesn't really matter for what they should be using the machine for. I assume that's schoolwork, research, etc. You might get some complaints that game X or special software package Y doesn't run on the computer, but that sounds pretty minor. They'll be able to figure out Windows computers once they've used linux, so I don't see many problems of converting if that ever became an issue. Computers are ultimately a tool, and unless you're going to be a tool-maker or tool-supporter, the choice of the tool doesn't really matter. To make an analogy just get them familiar with using hammers, screwdrivers, and saws and don't worry about which brand it is.
The second problem is getting broken hardware. There's a few things that can help you here. I'd first look at memtest86 to test the memory. Let it run for a few hours and see if there's errors. Secondly I'd run some CPU thrashing tests. Many people seem to like Prime95 from mersenne.org, and run the torture test. Other programs like the distributed.net client will also stress the CPU. Finally I'd get familiar with smartctl on linux. This program will access the SMART monitoring that's built into hard drives made in the last 5 or 6 years. From this you can tell if the HD is junk, or soon to be junk.
You're going to get a lot of Junk. And by junk I mean computers with 64 megs of ram and a 233 megahertz processor. It's hard to tell you where the line exists, since I don't know what kids are going to do with these computers. Cannabalize components, but don't be afraid to just throw stuff out, or maybe turn these components into a class where kids get to "build their own computer".
AccountKiller
Has it come to this? I like Linux and use Linux, too. Should I rend my hair shirt, flog myself bloody, roll in mud and parade the streets on my knees to show everyone my shame? "Whatever you do, people, do not do what I do! I am a bad example!"
Guy said it's for kids who aren't familiar with computers at all. In every case I've seen kids absorb Linux like a sponge, learn to equate later exposure to Windows and Macs with it. They just take it as a given and keep learning. Why? Because they haven't had 20 years of brainlock in Windows-Only-World.
My daughter has no trouble at all using Linux at home and Windows at school and at the library. The only way it's affected her as far as the outside world is concerned is that she giggles and points when Windows crashes (because they're not supposed to do that) and she shakes her head in disgust when she sees that her only games are freecell/hearts/solitaire/minesweeper. Oh, wait, lemme second-guess the flame-fighters on this one: I'm abusing my children by showing them Linux, right?
I wonder if there are some licenses or acceptions that would allow a company to donate old windows licenses. They could get a decent tax write-off and do some nice PR. If this works, they probably have old office licenses too.
I'm all for teaching people linux, but it sounds to me like these people need "job skills". Teaching them how to write a letter and a spreadsheet would be beneficial to them. If some are interested and want to go further, look into putting linux on a few machines. You could teach a little programming too which for a kid might open some doors. But for the older people, I'm more concerned that they know enough to get an entry level data entry position. Doesn't sound glamorous, but neither is flipping hamburgers.
And on a side note, I think what this guy is doing is very admirable. Lots of people, probably myself included, love to jump on slashdot and show other geeks how geekier they are, but this truly helps people.
Right On
I work for a larger 501(c)3 here in Lexington. We have a paid staff of around 20, plus probably about that same amount in full-time volunteers, plus are non-regulars and court-ordered help. Even our Resale store (a fundraising source) won't accept anything older than a P3. We are trying to get a electronics recycling dumpster to handle all the rest. Now we try to give away all those boat anchors we still seem to get stuck with. That being said, I know of at least two pcs currently in use that have a "turbo" button.
Mostly what we need is better networking gear and maybe a few really dedicated volunteer sysadmins. Right now we have a really crappy terminal services set-up that is slow, always locking up, buggy and with a really limited software suite. And while security is good, if you want to take a file of a disk, or put one on, you have to find the take our accountant out of a meeting and have her run to the serverroom, upload the file and give you access do it. And god forbid you ever need to use an application or website requiring sound......
And don't get me started on our e-mail client.
Find it here.
Is it fascism yet?
Check out what the local community colleges are emphasizing in their course curriculum and tailor your lessons for them in this way.
Encourage the kids to develop an interest in this stuff. Then, when the time comes, encourage the older teens to apply for IT programs at a local college and earn a degree in that field and make computers a career. So if they see that local college X does courses in web design, and you already taught them web design, they be very willing to make a career out of it. This might be a goal that seems feasible to them and this should prepare them to live a stable life in the future which they haven't experienced before.
Hi
Many have pointed out that you would get a lot of junk computers.
I suggest that you take the fast computers and connect them in a mosix cluster
and then use the slow ones as xterminals.
So, how does that cute, yet not too melancholy story relate to this? You're going to have to make do with what you get/can get. You might not be able to choose something you won't have to service in 6 months. You might not be able to use the newest OS. When it comes down to upgrading the systems you get (mobo/proc and RAM, and don't forget the license for Windows) in order to run XP, and getting more systems to reach more people, you'll have to make that decision. Personally, I would use Linux (pick your favorite distro) on older boxes. If they're really old, have it boot to a console, and use it for more "advanced" kids. There's always someone who'll take to it, and want to learn more. We all had that first computer experience, and I'm willing to bet most weren't on a brand new machine. So, they can work on a console, and consider it a challenge. For the... lets say, less computer savvy, you give them the newer systems with a full GUI.
I can't stress enough that a console Linux box, or even just a smaller window manager (fluxbox, etc) makes an old slow system into something new. I think that's your best bet in terms of getting the most systems, cheapest, but the trade off is having things that aren't as visually appealing.
On the other hand, if you want to teach Windows I'd reccomend getting as old a version as you can, that will maximize the computers power. If it's only got 256 MB RAMI guess what this long, late-night ramble is getting to is this. There's no hard and fast. You can request whatever you want, but you'll end up having to make do with what you get. And to that end, it'll be up to you whether you can afford to upgrade another system in hopes of getting XP (remember, pay for the license) on there, or use a Linux version that is appropriate. If these kids haven't used a computer before, no matter what you teach them, they'll learn, so don't be biased against Linux, simply because of look. And in the end, the learning is up to them. You might talk with the student, find out the interests, and from that make the call of which system to give, with which OS (if you have the luxary of having 5-10 different machines in at one time).
Want to find other gamers to play board and role playing game
...what's the best way to test the influx of hardware that's coming in quickly, efficiently and reliably to make sure won't need servicing within another 6 months?
As someone who has been recycling used compuers for the last 4 or 5 years, I have a few tips for you.
1. Any Pentium II or Pentium III is a good candidate for recycling. Even Pentiums may work out if the clock speed is 200 Mhz. Below this, I wouldn't use except for dedicated things like a firewall/router. I have had good luck with 133 or 166 Mhz Pentium machines used in this capacity.
2. You may need to upgrade the RAM for any desktops: many computers of this vintage have only 32 Mbytes of RAM and I consider 64 Mbytes to be a minimum today. Even a minimal Windows 98 or Linux install with Internet capability will swap its brains out with only 32 Mbytes of RAM. Scavenge RAM from defective machines to put in the better ones.
3. Fans, fans, fans - don't think about this, just do it! Replace the CPU fan, the power supply fan and any case fans. Don't replaqce the power supply; most of the early supplies are built better than new ones; just replace the fan. Use good quality ball-bearing fans (you'll find that most of the originals were sleeve bearings). The single biggest problem I have with used systems is fans!
4. This goes with #3 above - clean the case! I can't tell you how many older machines I got that were overheating and then functioned perfectly after cleaning many years of accumulated dust out of the air inlet holes in the case! Get a good shop vac and suck all the dust out in the direction opposite of normal airflow.
5. CDROM drives - somewher around the increase to 20X or 24X, CDROM drives got very unreliable. If it is faster than 24X, replace it; they are cheap and not worth the hassle of having a system returned. I have 8X drives that run very reliably still but there is a big caveat here: make sure thay can read CD-R's: some of the early drives could not!
6. Hard drives - surprisingly, older hard drives seem much more reliable than new ones! I have an entire shelf of working hard drives that were swapped out, not because they were bad, but simply because they were too small. Any 2, 3, 4 or 8 Gbyte drive will probably last a long time. For anything 10 Gbytes or larger, download the respective manufacturer's diagnostic utility and run it: if it shows any disk errors, discard! This isn't bad advice for the smaller ones, but, in my experience, the smaller ones either work perfectly or not at all!
7. Monitors - discard any that don't have power-saving capabilities. Before they beacme available and I started using them, monitors without power-save features (they power down to a minimal power usage when the sync signals are removed) were the single biggest replacement item I ran into. Beyond that, you will be saving many watt-hours of electricity.
8. Keyboards - check the spacebar key! Itisusuallythefirsttofail. Although many laugh, I routinely recycle old, dirty keyboards by running them through a dishwasher, no soap, and then thoroughly (2-3 days) drying them before using them. If they don't work, toss them; good keyboards are 3-5$ at the local Microcenter. On old systems, stay away from USB keyboards; even motherboards that supported them did poorly at first.
9. Mice - see above; most of the tips for keyboards go for mice, too. The rollers on old mechanical mice will almost always need to be cleaned throughly. Use isopropyl alcohol and clean the mouse ball, too. If they need to be replaced, get optical mice, they never need cleaning.
10. power cords - this is an interesting one! I have noticed that, on older systems, the universal connector that they use to plug into the system unit no longer makes good contact after being inserted/removed untold number of times. Check it, wiggle it, replace if necessary.
Hope this helps.