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Sandals and Ponytails Behind Slow Linux Adoption

Eric Giguere writes "CNet is reporting that according to former Massachusetts CIO Peter Quinn 'the lax dress code of the open-source community is one of the reasons behind the software's slow uptake in commercial environments.' In particular, Quinn blames the 'sandal and ponytail set' for sluggish adoption of Linux by businesses and governments." From the article: "Quinn, who faced plenty of scrutiny over his support of the OpenDocument standards-based office document format, said proponents of open source in government faced formidable opposition from vested interests if they went public."

15 of 948 comments (clear)

  1. Yeah... by irimi_00 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Its all about class and swagger.

    1. Re:Yeah... by nostriluu · · Score: 5, Insightful


      First of all, I did not say there was a correlation between being smart and being freaky. Smart people come in many shapes and sizes.

      Otherwise, I think you're totally wrong and lack real experience of diverse people. For example, I used to spend time with a bunch of goths. Looking at them with an uninformed eye, you'd just think they were a bunch of freaks, but most of them were university students and have gone on to do post graduate work, work with leading edge companies, and so on. I've had numerous other experiences of people who were "freaks," but were very smart freaks and have become very successful. Some of them dropped the unusual clothing and styles, some of them didn't. It doesn't have much to do with their success unless they work in a really conformant industry (which wouldn't attract them in the first place).

      Maybe you just live in a place where the culture won't accept this and works against people who are different, but the smart people I know are of all races and interests, and actively promote their differences and beliefs, and it rarely works against them.

      And it's not a matter of "need," it's a matter of want. I'm not desperate, are you?

      And what the --- does dressing differently have to do with "being clean?" I think you have a very bizarre picture of diverse people.

      I suspect your definition of success has very little to really achieving anything other than a generic "successful career," which is something anyone can do. Being really innovative, effecting meaningful change, being part of healthy communities, etc, has nothing to do with how you dress.

    2. Re:Yeah... by utlemming · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not so much about class and swagger as professionalism.

      How many Slashdotters have tried to implement Open Source on an enterprise level? I have, and to be honest, it is a hell of a lot of work. Open Source is not user friendly when you have to start working off the desktop. KDE and Gnome make the desktop easy, but when you start playing with command-line stuff, things get hairy. Open Source will save acquistan(sp?) costs, but it won't save on labor.

      What I can see is if a business which has a culture of suits and ties contracts with a company to provide open source solutions, has support people which are wearing sandals and jeans, then, yes, I think there will be a problem. Why would an organization that has suits have a bunched of sandeled-footed and pony-tailed people walking around their offices? Being presentable is half the equation. Knowing your stuff is the other half. If you know a lot, but you are unpresentable, unbathed, unshaven and slovenly, then no one will accept your solution. I learned this working in a retail shop. On a number of occassions, I had to come from something or go to something after work and I would be in a suit. I discovered that it is far easier to sell something when your in a suit (mind you I was a manager at the time). Your dress goes along way for creditability.

      You can call it prejudices or whatever. But the fact remains that business has a culture. And being sucessful to your customers means dressing and playing a part of that culture. You have to sell yourself to make yourself sucessful.

      --
      The views expressed are mine own and do not express the views of my employer.
    3. Re:Yeah... by Kadin2048 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with you here.

      I never used to dress up for anything. Well, weddings and funerals, but only if I really liked the people involved, and sometimes not even then. I never really thought about it.

      The latest job I'm working at came with a big pay bump and a significant dress code. I don't think I ever saw it in writing, but it's just clear: you don't come into the office without a long-sleeve collared shirt and dress pants, and some sort of shoes that have seen the business end of a horsehair brush and some Kiwi.

      Anyway, I found since I started working there that when I'm 'dressed for work' and go out into the world, the level of service and attention I receive is pretty significantly different from what I was used to. In fact I've tested it a few times; gone to the same restaurant a few times wearing work clothes, then gone a few times in a pair of cargos and a t-shirt, just to see what happens. People are politer, service is faster, I get called "sir" a lot more...it's not a huge difference, but it's noticeable.

      Unlike your skin color -- which I don't believe in judging people by, as they have no control over it -- you choose what you put on every morning. You can choose to look like pretty much anything you want (within the bounds of the clothing you can afford); and other people are going to judge you based on that implicit choice. When I see someone who looks like a slob, I don't feel bad judging them, because they chose to look that way. If you roll out of bed, put on the first articles of clothing that you find on your floor, and go with it, that's fine -- but don't say you weren't warned when your glass doesn't get refilled at a restaurant as fast as the guy in a suit's does. You knew, or should have known, what you were getting into when you decided to go out like that.

      My experiences are probably region-specific; the treatment I might have gotten in Southern California might have been different (I don't know, never having been there and having little interest in going -- too hot for my taste). But in an area filled with white-collar corporate and government types, and businesses that cater to them, if you want to be taken seriously it's pretty obvious how you want to present yourself.

      Having been on both sides of the issue now, I think there's a lot to be said to matching your dress and other aspects of your personal image (hair, accessories, etc.) to the impression you want to create. And on the corporate level, I think it's pretty fair to want to create dress codes that match the kind of business and team you want to build. And if you're selling something -- as a whole lot of OSS developers effectively are, whether they realize it or not -- to matching your appearance to your client or intended buyer.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  2. chicken or egg by yagu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Eventually I think linux and OSS will take hold. I agree with the articles thesis: uptake of OSS (and, for the record, ANYTHING) is affected (negatively in this case) by sandals and ponytails.

    In my long career pathetically ended after 21 years by an unfortunate "right-sizing" (let's get rid of the 20% MOST expensive employees in IT, but make sure to get rid of some of the kids too so we don't get sued...), I conducted an ongoing rant/argument/rage/discussion with my best friend at work about the impact of dress. Bob (not her real name) insisted not only are others impacted by your appearance and demeanor, but your very own work and feelings about yourself change based on your dress.

    Being a long-haired sandaled techie I disagreed. It took Bob about fifteen years to win me over. I get it now, maybe a bit too late, but it does matter.

    For doubters, read Robert Malloy's book. I love and hate this book. It's hard to dispute empirical research... you dress for your audience or risk losing them.

    Still I like to wear my rose-colored glasses and think good conquers evil eventually, and still hold hope someday linux along with OSS gains the purchase it needs to be a viable and dominant market force unto itself (it already passes the viable test...).

    As an aside: this does take an interesting turn when you consider that the "dress code" for "good tech" is oxymoronic, i.e., while it is true business leaders and decision makers like/prefer business dress and decorum from people they meet and strike deals with, at the same time it's a time-honored tradition that the most savvy and high-octane techies wear cutoffs, sandals, t-shirts (that probably say "fuck you" in some obfuscated way), and piercings. Go figure. (From my own personal experience, I would add, I found little correlation with the raggedy techie look and competence and would even submit many less competent techies cultivated the look as an offset to their less-than-great skills.)

    And, now I'm off to install the new Firefox /. extension (God Bless OSS)

  3. Erm... by setirw · · Score: 5, Funny

    http://blogs.sun.com/roller/resources/roumen/micro soft_old_small.jpg

    How did Microsoft become so successful, then? ;)

    --
    This message printed on 100% post-consumer recycled electrons.
  4. oddly enough by stoolpigeon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the real reason, right there in the article, has little to do with dress and more to do with the incredible political influence (money) wielded by those who want to keep OSS down. the 'image' of OSS developers is not the problem. it is that the political process has been hijacked from seeking public good to seeking personal good.
     
    there are plenty of suits involved in the OSS movement. but as he says at the end of the article, what got him to drop out of the fight was not the image of OSS but the constant barrage of attacks brought against him by those with the wherewhithal to do so - big business.

    --
    It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
  5. Oh, Give Me A Break! by GeekBird · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Since when does a developer's alleged mode of dress influence the decisions of those who never meet him? It's yet another excuse: "Oh, those open source guys are hippy dippy slobs with pony tails and sandals! Let's buy from MicroSoft who makes their (sales) people dress up nice!!"

    It's bullshit.

    Besides, microsofties wear west coast developer attire too, just they don't let them make sales calls. Also, I know damn well what the Apple geeks wear, and it isn't suit and tie. I see them whenever I drive down the DeAnza Blvd in Cupertino. They are definitely ponytail compliant - although some of them their *only* hair is their ponytail, with nothing on top!

    --
    use Sig::Witty;
  6. Re:Response from a long-haired, bearded techie ... by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Deal with it. I'm smarter than you. I could do your job in my sleep; you couldn't do mine in a million years.

    Exactly the ignorant elitist attitude that will place you near the top of the list when it's time to lay a few people off. Fact of the matter is that management needs tech and tech needs management, but neither needs arrogant know-it-alls like you.

    At 37, I haven't suffered any harm from this attitude yet.

    Time is not on your side. A more polite and still smart and pleasant to be around kid will soon replace you. Sure they will need some training and education that comes with experience, but the benefits to the management, that you are so quick to insult, of this new fresh blood out weigh your value.

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
  7. It's all about appearance by radiotyler · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Open source has an unprofessional appearance, and the community needs to be more business-savvy in order to start to make inroads in areas traditionally dominated by commercial software vendors. (Having) a face on a project or agenda makes it attractive for politicians (to consider open source).
    That is so true it's scary. Right or wrong, confidence in a product is instilled by the person presenting the product - but probably even more so in the software business. What the community as a whole seems to miss sometimes is that the people that are making the major software decisions are at best technically inept, and at worst blissfully clueless.

    Given a choice between a guy in a suit with a mediocre piece of software, and the guy in jeans that hasn't shaved for two days and smells of pizza with an amazing array of programs - they're going to take the suit. The marketdroids want to see success oozing from the vendor, not an air of dishevelment.

    All in all, it's sad to see decisions based on quality of presentation as opposed to quality of product, but with few exceptions, that's the way it's always been - and probably always will be.

    Shower. Shave. Buy some button up shirts and a pair of slacks. From my experience, this makes all the difference in the world. Like it or not - it's the way the game is played.
    --
    hi mom!
  8. Well ... by s20451 · · Score: 5, Funny

    If nothing else, that picture proves that there is such a thing as the opposite of pornography.

    --
    Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
  9. IBM figured this out in the 90s. by Chris+Burke · · Score: 5, Interesting

    IBM used to make their techies wear suits. Then, during the dark period in the late 80s and early 90s when they were struggling to reinvent themselves, they had a revelation: Business-type customers like to see people in "professional" business atire, but this only matters if the customer actually sees you. The rest of the time, it is fine to dress comfortably. Thus sales, marketing, and any techie who happened to be interacting with the business-type customers would wear a suit and tie, everyone else wore what they wanted. Bam! Problem solved! And since then, the "sandal and ponytail set" hasn't stopped IBM from making sales, now have they?

    So the fundamental problem, if there really is a real problem behind the article, is that the wrong people are speaking to each other. If you're trying to make an OSS business case to the business-types, then yeah you need a business-type person dressed in business-type clothing to do the talking. If you aren't a for-profit organization who can hire such a person to do the talking for you, then why do you give a fuck if the business types listen or not? The techies will listen to you, and you'll get in like most OSS has gotten in -- via the back door in the server room. If you are a for-profit, then why do you need a cnet article to tell you to "dress for success" and hire a marketing person instead of sending your be-sandled techies out into the field?

    I don't know, this whole thing smacks of misdirection. He says it's the poor dress code that's causing the slow adoption, but then makes it sound more like it's politics and "IT leadership" (interpreted to mean some kind of management, shouldn't be wearing sandals) that are to blame. It sounds to me like the real reasons for the slow adoption of OSS have nothing to do with "sandals and ponytails", and "OMG RMS dresses looks like a dirty hippy!" is just an excuse.

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  10. Right for the wrong reasons by Desert+Raven · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here's a completely different point of view.

    Yes, the corporate suits are not comfortable with OSS companies, because the folks in the OSS companies don't wear suits. But it's not actually because of the clothing, it's what the clothing implies. The lack of suits tells them that these are technical people in charge, not business people. The suits don't like dealing with technical people, because they don't really understand us. They feel more comfortable with people wearing suits, because people who wear suits are their kind of people.

    I just love hearing from our C_Os about how we in development should do whatever the sales/marketing folks tell us, because "if it weren't for them, we wouldn't have jobs". Meanwhile, I'm sitting here thinking, well, what the heck would they sell if we weren't creating products?

    Never mind the fact that the sales department has a very regular turnover, and the sales people themselves aren't anything special, just your average ex-fratboy business major who made it through four years of college with an average 0.8 BAC. Nobody blinks twice when they leave, they just replace them. Yet, the company is horrified that I ride a motorcycle, because of the possibility that I may get injured/killed and thus leave them with a serious hole to fill that requires very specialized knowledge.

    Truth? They fear us. They know that they are a dime a dozen. Our entire sales department could get hit by a bus tomorrow, and it would set the company back a month at worst. If the engineering department walked out, the company would fold up like a wet kleenex, and would *never* recover.

  11. Re:That's not the problem by Queer+Boy · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Noone ever complains about my t-shirt, Dickies shorts, and piercings when I'm done fixing their shit.

    That's because you're a blue collar worker. You're hired help. You're not viewed any differently by companies than the guy that comes to fix the garbage disposal or the guy that brings the water coolers.

    You deal with the "little people" of a company. The ones whose job is going to India tomorrow. What president of a company cares if they like what you're wearing? He's never going to see you.

    You're not an executive so your point is moot. The article is about executives at companies having to deal with the pony tail and sandals crowd. NOT Charlie Cubicle.

    --
    Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
  12. Re:If you hired a plumber by Black+Copter+Control · · Score: 5, Funny
    I'd say that this is actually a counter-example. Would you trust a plumber who shows up at your door wearing cologne, a 3-piece suit, a tie and carrying his 'tools' in one of those 6" thick briefcases that you sometimes see lawyers carrying around??

    "Let him in, I'm expecting him", your partner yells to you from the bathroom as you're heading out the door....

    --
    OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.