Slashdot Mirror
Amazon CTO Rips Blogging Authors a New One
theodp writes "Following what was characterized as rude treatment of invited guests in a confrontation at Amazon HQ, Amazon CTO Werner Vogels turned to his personal blog to give author Shel Israel a public scolding for suggesting Amazon doesn't 'get' blogging (Amazon's blogging innovations include 'faux' personal blogs and patent-pending plogs). Vogels went on to voice concerns on Israel's blog that blogging could be too distracting for Amazon employees - think the self-proclaimed guy-with-guts challenged CEO Jeff Bezos about the distractions of his space exploration efforts?"
they also said that about cars, computers, video games, television, space flight, electric cars. all those are still around, and probably will be for as long as we are. I doubt blogging is going anywhere.
Shaky camera work and giggling do not make a business case in most organizations. This means you Scoble.
Classic slashdot. A ridiculously biased summary, and the last point is completely irrelevant to the subject.
Hell yeah! CTO doesnt 'get' blogging!
I wish more people were as blunt and forthcoming as Mr.Vogels.
What the hell is this about again?
More drama than a spanish soap opera. The only sad part is this lacks the good looking women and I can understand what they are saying...
This story reminds me of a saying, something about arguing on the internet being like running in the special olympics... I can't quite remember how it ends though.
Blogging is sort of like a diary. Except it's more like diarrhea. Of the mouth. Using a keyboard. And anyone can watch. And there are millions attention starved individuals out there who want nothing more than for you to mop up said diarrhea. With your eyes.
This summary reads like the Chewbacca Defense.
Wait, What?
I have no clue what this article is about. Its a quote taken from half way in the conversation/explination full of a bunch of links.
my a suggest a revisal? or perhaps some sort of clairifaction?
Wow, am I the ONLY one here who can't make head or tail of what the text in that post says ? It's really confusing. Who did what to who and what happened then and where to who after what was done ? Mind clearing things up a bit ?
It's ironic that the guy himself has a blog, he's an Amazon employee and he publishes "Amazon employees shouldn't be blogging" diatribes on it. I mean, I myself think blogs are idiotic with rare exceptions, but his choosing of the medium is entertaining.
Did I miss something? That summary makes no sense, and didn't inspire me in the least to want to RTFA. Why is it on the main page anyway?
Linux is to the internet as Duct Tape is to the Universe.
they also said that about cars, computers, video games, television, space flight, electric cars. all those are still around, and probably will be for as long as we are.
Of course, they also said that about the cravatte, off-white nylon shirts with huge collars, pet rocks, steam cars and listening to live plays via the telephone. And they were right.
That said, no, I don't think blogging is a fad either; it's too useful for that.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Explaining jokes on the internet is like competing in the special olympics...only retards do it.
> Amazon CTO Werner Vogels turned to his personal blog to...
Will corporations someday have a Chief Blogging Officer?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
It's Amazon's CTO. Who cares what he says on his personal blog? It's not like he runs the company or anything like that. Him getting in an argument with a blogger isn't even newsworthy! The terrible summary isn't helping this "article" along, either.
Being anonymous is not cowardice.
That said... it seems to be this is a classic case of mass-induced elitism. I don't think the Amazon guy was off in his line of questioning. What's good for Microsoft or Sun might not be for Amazon or eBay, yet Scoble and his friend come across as the quitenssential "it" boys, giggling and stomping their little feet because the hick across the table doesn't know what the small fork is for - as if his life depended on it.
I suppose if you live in that "blogosphere" long enough it must look to you like everyone is blogging and, more importantly, that everyone should be doing it. I don't think that's the case. I've found many corporate attempts at blogging to be underwhelming and downright stupid - if you don't "get it" then just don't do it at all. I doubt many millions of Amazon customers are going to decide one day that they won't spend a dime online anymore because Amazon doesn't have a blog.
The blogorati need to come out into the light and look around once in a while.
Blogging is not new. The hype around blogging is a fad and eventually it will go the way side.
People treat blogging as if it is something more than psuedo-intellectual self-promoting wanking. That is what the vast majority of blogging is - people stroking their egos and gaining social validation.
Why there is even a story about blogging or the "politics" surrounding it puzzles me. Are we going to have arguments about Anne Frank's diaries being better or worse than some other random person's diaries?
People need to get a grip.
It would seem that if the Amazon guy doesn't want to kowtow to Mr. Israel (and why would he), the blogger guy is likely to wage some sort of blogger-jihad against Amazon.
Is that likely to cause them any trouble? Amazon seems to be quite good at what they do.
I have a feeling that this is a case where he can tell Israel to kiss his ass.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_
Dear Mr. Baker, As an employee of an institution of higher education, I have few very basic expectations. Chief among these is that my direct superiors have an intellect that ranges above the common ground squirrel. After your consistent and annoying harassment of my co-workers and me during our commission of duties, I can only surmise that you are one of the few true genetic wastes of our time. Asking me, a network administrator, to explain every nuance of everything I do each time you happen to stroll into my office is not only a waste of time, but also a waste of precious oxygen. I was hired because I know how to network computer systems, and you were apparently hired to provide amusement to your employees, who watch you vainly attempt to understand the concept of "cut and paste" as it is explained to you for the hundredth time. You will never understand computers. Something as incredibly simple as binary still gives you too many options. You will also never understand why people hate you, but I am going to try and explain it to you, even though I am sure this will be just as effective as telling you what an IP is. Your shiny new iMac has more personality than you ever will. You wander around the building all day, shiftlessly seeking fault in others. You have a sharp dressed, useless look about you that may have worked for your interview, but now that you actually have responsibility, you pawn it off on overworked staff, hoping their talent will cover for your glaring ineptitude. In a world of managerial evolution, you are the blue-green algae that everyone else eats and laughs at. Managers like you are a sad proof of the Dilbert principle. Seeing as this situation is unlikely to change without you getting a full frontal lobotomy reversal, I am forced to tender my resignation; however, I have a few parting thoughts: When someone calls you in reference to employment, it is illegal for you to give me a bad recommendation as I have consisted performed my duties and even more. The most you can say to hurt me is, "I prefer not to comment." To keep you honest, I will have friends randomly call you over the next couple of years, because I know you would be unable to do it on your own. I have all the passwords to every account on the system and I know every password you have used for the last five years. If you decide to get cute, I will publish your "Favorites," which I conveniently saved when you made me "back up" your useless files. I do believe that terms like "Lolita" are not viewed favorably by the university administrations. When you borrowed the digital camera to "take pictures of your mother's b-day," you neglected to mention that you were going to take nude pictures of yourself in the mirror. Then, like the techno-moron you are, you forgot to erase them. Suffice it to say, I have never seen such odd acts with a ketchup bottle. I assure you that those photos are being kept in safe places pending your authoring of a glowing letter of recommendation. (And, for once, would you please try to use spellcheck? I hate correcting your mistakes.) I expect the letter of recommendation on my desk by 8:00 am tomorrow. One word of this to anybody and all of your twisted little repugnant obsessions will become public knowledge. Never f*ck with your systems administrator, Mr. Baker! They know what you do with all that free time! Sincerely David Blocker Network Administrator
I'm not sure if I'm referring to the meeting in the story or the post on Slashdot, either...
That is all.
I read all the trackbacks and comments linked and basically it reads like a polite version of a forum flamewar. You can actually almost see that behind their carefully creafted words they really at heart want to write something like "OMG ur teh gay!". If this is what 2 "blogging poster boys" and the CTO of one of the most high profile online retailers do with their blogs then I think Amazon and anyone else would do well to stay as far clear of them as they can.
I have discovered a truly remarkable sig which this post is too small to contain.
Game Overdrive - Gaming News
If I listened to every dumbassed "revelation" that came out of my CTO or CEOs mouth, I'd be sucking Mexican cock for nickles in the back alleys of Oaxaca.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
And where will they be saying that?
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
I will. Slashdot has sunk to a new low, and posted this... "story," for what, nobody knows (other than douche like me to clicking on links to generate ad revenues).
Either you are hero or our time or you have a lot of free time :)
From one click purchasing to one dick blogging, is there anything Amazon doesn't have patents on?
Over their streaming wifi bluetooth podcast-based real-time worldwide virtual reality broadcasts on their iPodMacroVRGPSHDDVDIPv6B2B's with optional ...
Ouch, now my brain hurts. Who can think of something to finish this off with?
I have to stop wasting so much time reading Slashdot. It's interfering with my crystal meth addiction.
Sypnopsis:
Mommy, the fucker's been rude to me. He a bitch. Bitch. No, you a stupid bitch... Who's the bitch? Shut up, they're all bitches. Bitches.
You're not the only one.
Looks like you mispelled "ghey".
If you follow that link for "plogs" they go on to describe RSS feeds, as currently used in ALL BLOGGING SITES/PROGRAMS to allow inter-blog connectivity, and management therein (LiveJournal calls it syndication/etc.). Yet again idiots are attempting to patent something that was already in wide use when they "thought it up".
Two "important" bloggers go to Amazon, guys at Amazon act like jerks because they want to "test" them, everyone blogs about it instead of discussing their problems with each other.
:-/
The "whocares" tag is pretty accurate, but I did find it somewhat interesting... like soap opera interesting.
s/were/we're/gc :wq!
^Y
94% of Repubs and 21% of Dems voted to renew the Patriot Act
Whats the deal with techs and slogans. We have this insane passion for loaded words. You know the same way companies brand graphics on their packaging like "NEW AND IMPROVED" or "NEW FORMULA".
Remember the term Push Technology? How it would change the world. Guess what its RSS. Oh and how about the miraculous "Ajax". Wow Ajax must be some new ground breaking technology. No, its just another branding that basically comes down to using old existing technologies like dhtml, javascript and "sometimes" xml.
Oh and there's also this amazing thing called Blogs. Or in audio perspective if Im a MAC fanatic Im a Podcaster. Gee Blogs must be some ground breaking new thing. You know, its like this personal web site where I write up my comments and content on anything..wow its amazing. It must be different from that personal web page thingy I posted in 1995.
Sometimes we are all so full of our own shit.
And really love some good flamewar action. So I saw "rips a new one" and was geared up for one hell of a great story.
Boy, was I wrong. I need to update my definition for that phrase.
Drama drama drama blog drama drama Amazon drama blog smug smug drama blog Amazon smung drama blah.
Why is this news we give a flying leap about?
Having been in business (finance) for 15 years, I have been in a similar position to the CTO on occasion. The world is full of armchair quarterbacks, who are able to scratch a living in journalism and from writing books. Some of these people have real insights, some are just cobbling together platitudes on fashionable subjects. By and large, I tend to discount people who sell opinions on any subject, if they have never tried to make a living out of the implications of that opinion.
My feeling is that this CTO is in the position that well-meaning people are happily giving him advice all the time about what Amazon should be doing. He has limited resources in terms of time and money, so he needs a well-primed bullshit filter to make sure that he's not wasting his time. The first thing you do when talking to a consultant is to establish their bona fides, and to test them on the basis for their recommendations. You can start to believe their general statements, when you can see that their conclusions are based on real research and not thought experiments.
When someone is using the phrase "you just don't get (whatever subject)" I counter that it's up to them to convince me. There were lots of people putting crazy valuations on internet stocks in the late 90s. When you asked them how they justified the valuations, they would come up with over-optimistic projections about the amount of money that could be made from the net. Often they would assume that one company's revenues would be greater than the entire spending on that product category. Eventually the conversation would get to a stage where it was clear that they had no data to support their hypotheses, and they would wheel out the phrase "you just don't get it".
They could just as easily have said "oh ye of little faith". That's appropriate in a religious setting, but not where my clients' money is concerned. It's also my experience that people who have faith in irrational things tend to view any aggressive questioning as rude. I remember one of my analysts getting very upset when it was pointed out to her that her opinion on a particular company was at odds with her own facts - her only defence was to scream at me for being rude. Often if people have no real counter-arguments, they react to bad news and criticism by criticising the way it was delivered.
Amazon just doesnt like bloggers because it represents a new form of publishing that does not involve Amazon and other bookstores to sell content.
I rest my case
1. Amazon is a serious company that's about "Getting Work Done", not the very vague "Getting It", which is about the same as "Being In". Seeing that Amazon is a successful dotcom for years, I say they 'Get It'
2. Bloggers want to whine, preferably for money, and think everyone should love them, and be and think the same. You can blog about what you want, just pretend it's the greatest thing in the world.
The whole blogosphere is nothing more than a bunch of self-basting ego-fornicators.
Exercise caution when modding this message up: the author acts like a jerk when his karma is excellent.
"Amazon CTO Werner Vogels turned to his personal blog to give author Shel Israel a public scolding..."
"Vogels went on to voice concerns on Israel's blog that blogging could be too distracting for Amazon employees..."
Hmm.
...and Amazon customers clean their old ones. On the cheap too.
C-x C-s C-x k
That's hypocrisy, not irony.
So these guys think that Amazon doesn't "get" blogging. Well, what if Amazon does get it And Mr. Israel and others are the ones who don't? And what is this "rude treatment" I hear? The guys went to Amazon to talk about blogging. And they were asked some hard questions. Is that "rudeness"? No it's not. It seems to me that the complainers are thinking that "we are mighty blog-experts, and everything we say is gold. Asking us questions is rude and if you disagree with us, then you do not "get" blogging, since we are the final authority in all things related to blogging".
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
What is blogging all about? Whining, Soapboxing, Browbeating. None of these activities are particularly useful, especially on the company dime.
Buddy Holly dies = the day the music died
Blog becomes a nauseating, overused word = the day the internet died
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
As a diary, it's nothing new (though you no longer need to sneak into your sister's room to find out that she got drunk and fucked five guys last night).
As a corporate communication mechanism, it is something new.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Corporate blogging reflects the "demands" of the blogosphere that everyone else must act like them in order to be cool.
Now that a company like Amazon comes in place and starts doing what they're doing, the whiny self-important idiots get all up in arms that someone who is actually successful and productive (to the extent Amazon is successful) does something to try to meet their ever-changing and unsatisfiable demands. Basically, this is just mob mentality gone amok with various idiots appointing themselves temporary spokesmen spewing all sorts of retarded drivel to gain notireity.
Corporations do new things all the time, its called adapting to the marketplace. I don't think its really historic or revolutionary that companies set up their own blogs to make themselves have a more "personal" appearance.
Amazon invites a couple of people to speak about corporate blogging, that being the general idea of having your own employees have blogs to talk about the company. Amazon CTO asks them some pointed questions during the presentation, which CTO considers to be rather obvious questions. The speakers are unable to answer his questions in an adequete manner, and consider the CTO to be "rude", as do some others at the presentation. CTO counters by saying that he didn't mean to be "rude", but felt that the presentation was just fluff and "ra-ra-ra" type of cheerleading. And then everybody blogs about it complaining back and forth.
If you care, then pick a side and argue it.
If you don't care, then you're 99.9999% of the population.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Of course, this was only the second-best drama in the Blogosphere this week, running second to the scantily-clad Strumpette and her run-in with Edelman PR.
RichM
Data Center Knowledge
All the trillions of therapists, counselors, web forums/chat boards, tv talk shows, cable shows, radio call in shows where we get to bitch, whine and generally engage in various forms of masturbation, are apparently not sufficient.
u ff.
We now need our employers to provide a soapbox, so we can engage in wanking at work on our blog in the two hours we dont spend on myspace/youtube/googlevideo/slashdot/heavy/fhm/st
it is a shame that scoble and israel can actually publish such fuzzy horseshit and be treated seriously.
It's about different cultures. Werners Vogel was a CS professor at Cornell. In the CS research community, the given is that you're smart, and so when one gives a presentation about anything, one should expect hard questions -- and be prepared accordingly. There's no malice involved (well, sometimes there is), and it might come off as aggressive or rude to those not used to such treatment, but it makes sense once you think about it:
1. It's given that you're smart. 2. I already understand the easy part 2. we have limited time, so we'll just cut to the chase.
With that many links to different stories, I couldn't tell which one actually WAS the story. Besides, by the time I got to the end of that deluge of dreck, I couldn't care less.
I was amused to see a story about me in a slashdot entry. Certainly I have some opinions on the Amazon blogging issue :-)
Here's my homepage (including my notes about the Seattle P-I article) and here's my blog entry about this. I'll continue revising it.
-ted (I left Amazon earlier this year)
A conversion list talking about Werner Vogel's recent post about Naked Answers. It is amazing to see so many bloggers are talking about it, including Scoblizer, Matthewingram, Rick Segal, etc.
While reading the posts, and comments, a few struck me:
1. The majority of people in support of corporate weblogging have blogs, which they linked to in their comments.
2. Scoble's and Isreal's blogs have a messy, disorganized feeling to them - like most blogs that were linked to. Werner's was much cleaner.
3. Scoble's and Isreal's writing is just fluffy itself. It's painful to read. Also, how many times can you say "blog" or one of it's derivitives in one post?
4. I would never consider dealing with companies that used a blog as their primary means to convey information. It's a terrible format for actually telling people about your product. I want hard information first for a product. Then if I want opinions I'll look to customers (not on the company website).
5. I learned nothing more about the situation by reading the entries.
6. I hate Blogs with few exceptions
Seriously,
I followed the links and cross links to articles, blog entries that quote other blog entries... what do I get? Something worse than a USENET flamewar because the conversation is logically scattered in multiple places.
AOL turned off their USENET gateways. USENET is usable again, right?
they also said that about cars, computers, video games, television, space flight, electric cars. all those are still around, and probably will be for as long as we are.
Of course, they also said that about the cravatte, off-white nylon shirts with huge collars, pet rocks, steam cars and
Hang on - I've still got my pet rock. He's a 4 kilo banded vein of barytes and galena from the Bellshill mine at Strontian. Nicely sectioned to show off the banding. Country rock of granodiorite on one facet.
Trust me on this - I'm a geologist - pet rocks are nice.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"