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In-Depth ajaxWrite Review

mikemuch writes "ajaxWrite is the first offspring of ajax13, Michael Robertson's (of Lindows and SIPphone fame) latest startup that aims to deliver a brave new line of web-delivered, AJAX-based apps. ExtremeTech today has an in-depth review of just how apt a replacement ajaxWrite is for the big installed word processors. It's a neat idea, but let's just say the web-based word processor has some catching up to do."

27 of 112 comments (clear)

  1. Interesting by Iron+(III)+Chloride · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I find these new AJAX applications to be very interesting. While I don't think they can overcome the market share of MS Office in the near future, they're very portable on that library computer without a word processor installed.

    --
    Cogito, ergo sum, fosho!
    1. Re:Interesting by mikemuch · · Score: 4, Informative

      In truth, though, there are better lightweight solutions, like Zoho writer: http://www.zohowriter.com/ and ThinkFree Office: http://www.thinkfree.com/

    2. Re:Interesting by LO0G · · Score: 5, Informative

      Except, of course this isn't an AJAX application. It's an XUL application, which has nothing to do with ajax.

      Sort-of like the relationship between "javascript" and "java", only more tenuous (at least both of those were programming languages).

    3. Re:Interesting by smallfries · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You've hit the nail on the head when you say application*s*. Given that this article is a dupe, and we all bashed ajaxWrite last time it was up, I'm suprised that nobodies mentioned the other apps. This guys plan was to realise a new app every week. So far he's got a sketch program, and a something for videoediting. The sketch program (like the ajaxWrite) is exactly the kind of simple programing assignment that you would get somebody to do to learn a new language. Its not drowning in features, although of course he compares it to Inkscape. I didn't look at the videoediting as thats not really my thing.

      One amusing thing about his hype machine is that he has a claim that the idea for the word processor came from another guy, and that he injected $50000 as VC to get it off the ground. Odd thing is three weeks ago he made that claim about the word processor. It seems that this claim shifts through the applications as they are written. That is some impressive use of 200,000 quarters on a piece of string trick.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
  2. Said it before, and I'll say it again by WedgeTalon · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I said this back when /. ran the first story about ajaxWrite, and I'll say it now - ajaxWrite isn't near OO.o's or Abiword's league; its competition is Wordpad... and Wordpad is winning. This article is just reaffirming what was so plain to see when looking at the app for 5 minutes.

    1. Re:Said it before, and I'll say it again by ceejayoz · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sure, but Wordpad comes by default.

    2. Re:Said it before, and I'll say it again by b17bmbr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      its competition is Wordpad... and Wordpad is winning. This article is just reaffirming what was so plain to see when looking at the app for 5 minutes.

      I went to the site and played with it for 5 minutes. Nothing special. But what realy is a word procesor anyways. We confuse page layout with word processing. You want tables, graphs, pictures, mail merge, fine, but is theally a WP? For the features presented, I found them rather impressive. Okay, I use vim for most my coding. I have been using Pages for about a year now, and it is really slick. I of course use 1/10th of what it does. I like it's simplicity and apple's print to pdf more than anything. I think you're missig the point.

      Could I do my fly fishing club's newsletter on it? No. Could I have done my Master's thesis on it? Yes. That's the difference.

      --
      My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
    3. Re:Said it before, and I'll say it again by PietjeJantje · · Score: 2, Informative
      Did you expect it to have the same functionality right away?

      I think that is invalid argumentation. You dislike AJAX apps, for some reason (why not state it), and then you use this argument. It seems kinda silly.

      Even richest-off-all Microsoft, with their follow-don't-lead attitude, do it in versions. We all know how they do it since Word 1.0, Windows 3.0, Internet Explorer 3.0 (breaking-point versions) and need I go on? Would you like to judge the inherent potential of their next phased product line based on the initial versions limitated functionality, and not beyond? How strange. It is a starting point, man!

      I'd say if you use this line of argumentation for New Stuff (tm), you're unfit for the field, and Slashdot. Imagine where we'd be if this cynical approach would have been leading the last decades. For starters we'd still be staring at monochrome monitors because VGA will lead nowhere.

    4. Re:Said it before, and I'll say it again by b17bmbr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wouldn't. But, what if you deployed something like that on a campus wide server? Or what about countries that have older computers and want to use them in schools. Or perhaps use them in a thin client mode?

      I see some really good uses for it actually. I simply used the thesis example not to say I'd trust doing it, but that as for the stylistic needs, it could be done.

      --
      My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
  3. Please Just Stop by aldheorte · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let's just say that writing client-side applications in JavaScript is a really bad idea. Why would anyone choose to write their application this way? It's an attempt to take something that was originally intended for linking together scientific documents, force fitting a layout language on top of it, which is still really beholden to the underlying document structure, then overlaying that with a scripting language, which is to say, various scripting language interpreters (one for every browser) to try and change the layout and the document on the fly.

    That's what AJAX is - scientific papers posing as layouts posing as interactive applications. It's bad software practice, a misuse of technology, and an excuse for people to attempt to use limited skills to try to hack a simulated client side application, but one that is fundamentally asynchronous, difficult to debug, never provably functional (what browser are you using?) and just plain, well, bad.

    Alright, enough ranting. Mod me down if you want, but when AJAX and "Web 2.0" crashes and burns, you heard it here, well, not first because I'm not the only one to say it, but, well, you heard it, okay? You are, of course, free to do whatever you wish with your time, but please just stop architecting applications like this. I want real applications, not browser-junior app... let... things.

    1. Re:Please Just Stop by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Insightful
      when AJAX and "Web 2.0" crashes and burns, you heard it here, well, not first because I'm not the only one to say it, but, well, you heard it, okay?

      Its funny because this was the idea with java all along and it crashed and burned 10 years ago. Of course Java was killed by Microsoft introducing a non-standard implementation on IE. Maybe the will do it again with javascript. OTH maybe Firefox will undercut microsoft and introduce a standard client. Perhaps it is time for people to consider (mostly) firefox specific java apps.

    2. Re:Please Just Stop by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But, it's a hack.
      This is a good thing. Where would we be today if people didn't get technology that was originally developed for one purpose and make it do things that the original creators never envisaged...

      That burrito you just whacked in the microwave to heat up? We wouldn't have microwave ovens if it wasn't for someone hacking military radar technology to heat food.

      This intraweb thing you're reading at the moment - tell me you're not really glad that it's not another boring scientific document you're reading. That's why you're here at /.

      There's nothing wrong with taking one technology, or in the case of AJAX, a combination of technologies and taking them places that we never dreamed possible.

    3. Re:Please Just Stop by danielk1982 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The AJAX version is so much more intuitive and friendly, they check stuff off and then can just navigate to another page without having to worry about saving their data. The web is what you make it, not some definition set in stone for time imemorial.

      You used AJAX in the way it was 'meant' to be used - as a compliment to existing web functionality.

      Now go write a spreadsheet program that competes with Excel, but do it in Javascript and we'll see what you'll make of Ajax then.

      (BTW, ajaxWrite is really a XUL application, which means it is not portable across Browsers - heck, its not even portable across Firefox releases. The whole thing is pointless as a marketable app. As a proof of concept its interesting. As vacuum for VC money its perfect).

    4. Re:Please Just Stop by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Of course Java was killed by Microsoft introducing a non-standard implementation on IE.

      Oh, please. You could write a standard Java app for IE if you wanted to. The problem was that Java-in-the-browser SUCKED. It was slow, it was an UNBELIEVABLE memory hog, and the widgets looked absolutely amateurish and awful. In fact, computers are faster, but the widgets STILL look awful (and it's still arguably a memory pig, though the proportion is smaller since we have more memory to throw around).

      The other problem was that Java apps tended to be quite big, which made them a bear to download on slow connections. Not as much of a problem these days with broadband, but there are still a lot of modems out there.

      There's a reason that Google maps with AJAX is good (instant loading), and a similar thing with Java would be bad.

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    5. Re:Please Just Stop by cballowe · · Score: 2, Funny

      oddly enough -- someone today told me something like "computer science is the art of solving problems by adding layers of indirection" or something like that

    6. Re:Please Just Stop by baadger · · Score: 3, Funny
      humans weren't really designed for upright walking


      Strange, I thought walking upright was one of the things that made us 'human', they didn't call our ancestors homo erectus for nothing...atleast I hope it was the upright walking they were referring too.
  4. AJAX Apps Will Never Replace the Real Thing by dteichman2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    JavaScript (ECMA) is slow and resource intensive. Even more so when communicating with a server. A portable document editor may be fine and dandy, but I'd really rather carry around a copy of Portable OpenOffice on one of my USB drives. While a real app may be large, at least it's full-featured and (mostly) responsive/stable. I don't know about you, but it would suck to have your net connection give out and lose everything since the last update.

    --


    Silence is golden... and duct tape is silver.
    1. Re:AJAX Apps Will Never Replace the Real Thing by JMZero · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Huh - they already did at my company. We wrote a web script based word processor about 4 years ago. Since then it has processed around 2 million documents, and generally has high user satisfaction.

      Our users were initially concerned - as you are - about losing docs, so we wrote a component that allows periodic backup saves to your hard disk. But it's seldom used - a good percentage of people don't even have it installed. People's net connections just don't die that often.

      The one feature people missed was dotted-right-aligned tabs (as our base, HTML, doesn't really do that so well). We simulate the effect with tables - it's not perfect but it's just fine. Pretty much any other big feature - from mail merge to pictures to spellcheck - we got working pretty quickly. Script may be slow - but not slow enough to bog down reasonably fast computers. It's actually a very pleasant platform to develop an application on.

      --
      Let's not stir that bag of worms...
  5. The new office paradigm by DerGeist · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I have a feeling the "next generation" office suite will permit online collaboration. Imagine and online office suite that allows real-time collaboration between editors. With more and more laptops coming ready made with webcam/mic setups, I don't think it would be hard to imagine an online MS Word with a "teleconference" going on in a side-panel. Since many meeting s nowadays turn into little more than a romp in MS Word, this would save considerable travel time and permit simultaneous edits from contributors (a sort of "parallel processing", if you will).

    Now, there are some issues with real-time editing of a document by multiple people, my idea would be to have color-coded cursors for each editor so you could see where everyone is in the document (you can see how Excel cell highlights would work in a similar fashion). Overall, I think it can work, and I envision this is going to be hitting the workplace sooner than we all may think.

    1. Re:The new office paradigm by tmasssey · · Score: 3, Informative
      I envision this is going to be hitting the workplace sooner than we all may think.

      Meet the future: IBM Workplace

      It allows you to collaborate via the web on both Office *and* OpenOffice documents, with full IM capabilities built-in. Integrate it with Lotus Sametime and you get a full web conferencing suite: voice (including SIP), video, whiteboarding, etc...

      Really some very cool technology. And as you can see from my sig, I can even help you with implementing such a project! :)

  6. So now Windows users... by the_flyswatter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not only do have to worry about your browser/os crashing, you have to worry about your internet connection flaking out too!

    Brilliant!

  7. Online programs that I would be willing to use. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Online word processing per se doesn't seem like a brilliant idea. On the other hand, there are programs that I no longer use; but I have lots of files generated by those programs. An online version of CorelDraw that I could use to translate old drawings into dxf or odg or something; that I would use. I have a zillion old autocad drawings that I need to access every now and then but I no longer have autocad. I would pay a bit to use an online version of autocad occasionally.

  8. This Company is Screwed by dteichman2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The same people who rolled this out, also have an AJAX video editor. The problem with editing video on a web interface is that all rendering must be done on the server-side. The problem with server-side rendering of video at or near realtime is the necessity of a renderfarm. The problem wth a renderfarm is that it costs money. The problem with costing money is that there's no way they can make any, except by charging ads, which won't be near enough. They could embed ads into the videos, but I still don't think that'd cut it. I'd only pay to have my vids rendered online like this if it was dirt cheap ($1 or $2/month), which a renderfarm isn't.

    --


    Silence is golden... and duct tape is silver.
  9. Who is the target audience? by NMerriam · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I could understand if these guys were building a component for rich text editing for form fields, ala TinyMCE or such. But this seems to be...just completely bizarre?

    Who is the target market user for this -- people who think Windows Write is just too convenient? Someone whose 486 didn't come with a Turbo button, so all their old text editing programs just run too fast?

    It has all the features of Windows Write or Apple Textedit, with the stability and performance of a web browser! It's annoying enough to type out a response in a text field and have it get eaten by a network error or page refresh problem or browser crash -- do we really need to start losing entire documents?

    --
    Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
  10. This isn't AJAX. by ahoehn · · Score: 4, Funny

    This can't be AJAX, there are hardly any rounded corners at all.

    --
    Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
  11. It saved my friends bacon by barnaclebarnes · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But if you're stuck somewhere with an internet connection and Microsoft Word files to edit but no word processor, ajaxWrite might save your tail.


    My friend emailed himself a document at his work which he saved in OpenDocument format only to find he could not open it in Word. ajaxWrite saved him from making a 1 hour round trip home to get it converted. It may not be Word but it does have its uses.

    --
    [Please type your sig here.]
  12. For an alternative take on word processing... by drewlondon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The definition of a word processor needs updating.

    One big document is not always how writers work. That's not how I work, that's not how I think. I like to write lots of different fragments, rearrange them, and then piece them all together later.

    I use AJAX sticky notes at http://www.protopage.com/ as my word processor.

    It doesn't look like a word processor - but then the decades old definition of a word processor I think needs to be updated.