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Microsoft To Appeal EU Decision

An anonymous reader writes "News.com has an article on Microsoft's upcoming appeal of the EU antitrust decision. Their argument is essentially that they shouldn't be penalized for becoming successful in a marketplace." From the article: "Microsoft relies on the fact that its communication protocols are technologically innovative and are covered by intellectual-property rights ... [the company] had designed its Windows server operating systems from the outset to interoperate with non-Microsoft server operating systems"

14 of 237 comments (clear)

  1. Why the complaints? by liliafan · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "Microsoft had designed its Windows server operating systems from the outset to interoperate with non-Microsoft server operating systems,"


    If this is the case why are they complaining so much about documenting the protocols that would allow non-Microsoft software to interoperate?

    A lot of people don't agree with the EU anti-trust, personally I think the EU is succeeding where the US anti-trust cases failed, they are actually punishing M$, hopefully, Microsoft will learn a lesson this time around.....I doubt they will though.
    --
    GeekServ Unix Consulting Services (http://www.geekserv.com)
    1. Re:Why the complaints? by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The interaction only goes one way. And strangely, few if any complaints about that from the vendors whose territory they trample.

      Seems all of their own interoperability is for the purpose of migration [to Windows], not for peaceful cohabitation in a mixed computing environment.

    2. Re:Why the complaints? by Sassinak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because, as you just pointed out... Ford doesn't own the entire market. If you change to Chevy, or GM, or any other vehicle, you loose nothing. (Except for any backlog of parts and knowledge specific to the product that you may have). And that is a cost that you will have to decide is worth it or not.

      Ford does not (and can't really) use its leverage to make the auto parts manufactures to produce only parts for them and not anyone else.

      Ford can't basically tell you... "Drive us, or you will have to walk".

      If company A switches from windows to something else, (assuming they will unhook the leash to do so... stockholm syndrome comes to mind.), depending on their industry, they may not be able to function... this is not entirely due to the classic arguement of "no applications"..

      The long and short of it is that Micro$haft is being "singled out" (as you say) because of what they have done in the industry, not their size. You don't cage the gorilla for being 500lbs; but if he smacks everything that comes within 50 feet to death, and prevents any little gorillas from being born... I'm pretty sure you want a wall between him and you.

      --
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  2. Design and documentation by truthsearch · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sure, they were designed to interoperate. They just weren't documented. Or not documented well.

    Anything can interoperate with any other as long as the protocols are documented and those documents are made available.

    1. Re:Design and documentation by k12linux · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Right. Anyone can communicate in a foreign langauge as long as they take the time to learn it too. Of course if those who speak it refuse to teach someone who doesn't then good luck trying to master the langauge. The best MS outsiders can do is listen in on the conversation, try to pick out the right words and see what happens when you repeat some of them back to someone else. (With any luck you make no major mistakes and the person you are talking to doesn't become enraged and kill you.)

      MS's SMB/CIFS implementation is really not different. They refuse to teach anyone else the protocols (language) and what progress there has been was due to packet sniffing (listening in) and repeating things back that seem right to see what happens.

  3. Wrong argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Their argument is essentially that they shouldn't be penalized for becoming successful in a marketplace

    Shouldn't that be "penalised" not "penalized" as I'm pretty sure they use English rather than American in the EU, certainally we do in my part :-)

    Anyhow it's a deliberatley misleading argument - they're not being penalised for being successful, they're being penalised for BREAKING THE LAW. They really need to understand that the EU sees them as CRIMINALS and not contributing members of society. If they don't want to be treated as criminals then they shouldn't willfully and deliberatley break the law.

    They may be attempting to appeal that decision, however for the fact remains that it's not their success that has them up in the dock, it's their illegal behaviour.

    Specifically for abusing their monopoly position to the detriment of the market - adminttedly the monoply does show they were successful but that entire argument is a fallacy.

    1. Re:Wrong argument by Bogtha · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Anyhow it's a deliberatley misleading argument - they're not being penalised for being successful, they're being penalised for BREAKING THE LAW.

      I wish we could punish people who spout insincere rhetoric like this by treating them as if they were being honest.

      Microsoft: "We shouldn't be punished for becoming successful."
      EU: "Okay, we agree to those terms, appeal over."
      [A month goes by.]
      Microsoft: "Why are you forcing us to comply with the original judgement?"
      EU: "Why wouldn't we? That wasn't a punishment for being successful, that was a punishment for being anticompetitive."
      Microsoft: "We appeal!"
      EU: "You already had your appeal, we agreed to your terms, remember?"

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  4. What IP rights ? by alexhs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    the Commission's demands threaten Microsoft's intellectual-property rights.

    What intellectual property rights ? The EU Commision didn't ask for the source code (copyright), and software patents have no legal value in Europe...

    --
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    1. Re:What IP rights ? by truthsearch · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Communications protocols. MS claims it's their IP and they don't have to share it (as in publicly document it). But they also claim they interoperate. They think no one is smart enough to see the contradiction.

  5. Ah, I see! by gowen · · Score: 4, Insightful
    [the company] had designed its Windows server operating systems from the outset to interoperate with non-Microsoft server operating systems
    Its non-Microsoft client operating systems that they have the problem with. You can have your slice of server space, but if your alternative OS's try and pick up market share for desktop computers, then they'll do everything they can to stop you.
    --
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  6. Re:market success by Richthofen80 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What objective standard do you intend to use? How much is 'too much'? Who gets to decide?

    The idea is you don't punish the good for being the good. That's like saying, why don't we ban the New York Yankees from baseball because they have the most talented players? I think they're hitting way more home runs than they need to.

    If I owned a farm and had a bumper crop of corn one year, should I be penalized for being successful? What if I have ten farmers, all working cooperatively? What is the demarcation line for government or anyone to step in because 'success' has been too great.

    At least with the oil companies example, people can (falsely) argue that gas is 'owned by everyone' and therefore has a 'public responsibility'. With your arguement, the ideas of Microsoft and their labor is 'owned by everybody' and therefore subject to limiting restrictions as someone sees fit.

    --
    Reason, free market capitalism, and individualism
  7. Re:Yeah. by MSFanBoi2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The best thing is both blaster and slammer had fixes released well before the worms hit.

    It's most assuredly not Microsoft's fault that people don't patch.

    And any fool who says Linux or MacOS X don't need to be patched, are just that, fools.

  8. Re:market success by JustASlashDotGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful


    I think they're making way more money than they need to. Just like gas companies. Being successful
    doesn't make it right.


    Comments like yours are the ones that the 'other side' love. Someone who doesn't have the slightest
    grasp as to what is going on and makes comments that lead everyone else to believe that you don't have
    a grasp on capitalism. The simple fact that a company makes a lot of money doesn't make them bad or
    mean that restrictions should be placed on them. The company makes what the market permits, supply
    and demand. It's not up to you to say 'they are making too much money', there's no such thing as too
    much money (legally).

    You're probably one of those people that think the rich should be taxed to death for the simple fact
    that they have more money. "You make 1 million dollars a year.. I think we should tax you to death so
    you only take on 50k a year!... that is fair in my warped concept of fair".

    * Now, to be fair... you may very well have grasp on the facts, in fact I hope you do. Your comment
    alone is what I find rediculous, however you'll prolly get mod'd up as 'insightful' based on this
    crowd.

  9. Re:Yeah. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It's most assuredly not Microsoft's fault that people don't patch

    It is, at least partially. Microsoft had (have?) a habit of releasing 'new features' with security patches. This meant that the security patches needed careful testing before deployment, since the new features often came free with new bugs that could break existing software. For most other operating systems, the security updates are just that; security updates. If you install a security update for OS X/FreeBSD/whatever, the only things that it should break are programs that made use of the insecurity that is fixed (and you probably want these to break, rather than being exploited, anyway). On Windows, it can be a game of Russian Roulette to patch a running server.

    --
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