An Editorial Melee About Female Gamers

SR71 writes "Tom's Hardware has a strong debate between two of its editors in a face-off editorial about female gamers." From the article: "I'm not being puritanical - heck, a while ago I wrote about wanting to see more sex in videogames. Neither is this about being against female gamers. I simply take issue with people falling and fawning over these female gamers, and talking high-mindedly about how professional female e-sports will soon be on a par with the male circuit." The article contans some crass language that may be NSFW.

Comments

Female Gamers are not The Borg. Deal with it.

[Minwee]

So? They're gamers. They're female. Yes, that really does happen.

What seems to be getting missed is that female gamers aren't some kind of hive mind. They don't all do the same things, they don't all think the same thoughts. Saying that female gamers are all Suicide Girls or Killcreek posing in Playboy is just as inaccurate as saying that all male gamers are like Comic Book Guy and spend their entire day shooting off their mouths on forums like Tom's Hardware. It may be true for a handful of people, but that doesn't make it so for everyone.

This article may have some shocking revelations if you are a man whose only exposure to the opposite sex has been through the "Babes of E3" calendar, but other than that it strikes me as a lot of hot air. Hot, smelly, air that could use a bath and a few hours out of its parents' basement.

OMG Sexism

[jfclavette]

The Men/Women sports separation is about different physical characteristics of both gender. Now, why the hell would we have the same distinction, which does not make sense, in 'e-sports' ?

Re:OMG Sexism

[xero314]

Most of the world has finally accepted that men and women have different physical capability. Someday they will also accept that they have different mental capabilities. There is a reason that the past chess grand champions have all been men, and it's not because of some conspiracy to keep women out of it. Men have more strategic minds, and if you will look, there are studies that prove this. The part of the male brain that handles mathmatics is larger than in the femal brain (the exact opposite for language). E-sports will use far more of tha analytical skills than emotional or communication skills. Being able to judge a trajectory for an assualt or sizing up compareable forces is something male brains just do better.

I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but people need to stop deluding themselves. Through out history there has been no objectively judge competition where women have been able to regularly hold their own against men. This does not mean men are better than women as a whole, just at those things that can be objectively judge. The flip side is I am farily certain that women would win hands down if there was a way to objectively judge child raising, and we already know they trounce men in the child bearing arena.

My point is, men an women are different, and we should all stop getting pissed off when someone points out that one gender is better than another at a certain thing.

Oh, besides that e-sports would still require fast reflexes, hand-eye coordination and spatial judgement, all of which are know to be better in men.

The term "Gamer" doesn't need a discriptor

[XenoRyet]

Female Gamers, Young Gamers, Old Gamers, Minority Gamers. There is a trend here, they're all gamers. And if there's one universal truth about gamers, it's that they like to play good games.

All this talk about how to cater to one group or the other is a waste of breath IMO. Targeting any one of those groups will probably net you around 30% of that group, but it will disinterest or piss off the other 70% of that group, along with all the other groups. Where as if you just quit worrying about it, and make a good game that's enjoyable, and fun to play, you'll end up getting a larger portion of all the groups playing your game.

My point is that most gamers, regardless of sex, race, creed, or any other factor, like playing good games. A company attempting to target a game at any specific group is just covering the fact that they're not really sure how to make a good game, so they're going to try to hoodwink some group into buying their game because "It's made for them, by them"

Re:The term "Gamer" doesn't need a discriptor

[hal2814]

What you say would be true if there were some clear definition of "good game." It doesn't work that way though. Is Madden 06 a good game? I think it is but I'll wager there are plenty of people here who think it's not. Likewise, is Call of Duty 2 a good game? I don't think so but sales numbers disagree with me. The problem game developers face and the reason there is a qualifier in the first place for "gamer" is that different people find differrent things fun and enjoyable. Using a pigeon hole to try to corral as many gamers as they can into one definition of enjoyable goes a long way towards increasing game sales.

No, no, no... don't ask any women

[hambonewilkins]

A debate between two men about women gamers. Would have been FAR more interesting to see a debate between two female gamers.

Instead we get lame, slightly misogynistic speculation.

Re:No, no, no... don't ask any women

[Pantero Blanco]

Complaining about women who act like sluts isn't misogynistic. The main thing that seems to have sparked off this rant are the "camwhores" who try to use the combination of video games and sexiness to attract fanboys*. On this point, I certainly agree with the author.

The majority of what I consider "female gamers" aren't like that, but silent majorities often get ignored.

*I find these far more annoying. I run into them all the time both online and off; they always rave and drool over some chick in a skimpy outfit holding a controller, and then act like there's something wrong with me because I don't. They're twice as loud if the chick's Asian, for some reason.

Gaming industry has set the expectations

[tokengeekgrrl]

Regarding the last paragraph at this page:

"As long as the audiences continue to look for cam-slut poses on the female clan pages, that's where the money will go. And of course, the female gamers have to give up the easy money. I don't doubt that there are many good looking or perhaps not so good looking female gamers who could do well. And no, I don't think the first successful female clan will have to be comprised of butt-ugly chicks either, but in reality it shouldn't matter whatsoever what they look like. It's the combination of audience and sponsor expectations, combined with willing participants, that creates the current environment."

Perhaps, in the gaming industry when it comes to women gamers, looks *are* valued more than gaming ability. Maybe if the gaming industry really did value gaming ability first and foremost when it comes to both men and women gamers, then overall women's gaming ability would improve. Obviously, as evident by the amount of money and attention spent on hot gamer girls, the industry panders to looks at the expense of ability when it comes to women gamers. If the industry wants better women gamers then that's where it should put the money and attention.

Until that happens, why should hot gamer girls with moderate skill improve their gaming ability if it's not required of them in order to achieve whatever it is they want to achieve (publicity, advertising/modeling contracts, etc...)? For some women, capitalizing on their looks and sexuality is what works for them so more power to them. It's their choice and right to do so.

The real question is, why does the gaming industry have a double standard where skill is valued in men gamers and looks valued in women gamers? Most likely it's because men make the games and they like looking at pretty girls so that's sets the tone for the industry as a whole.

All that said, I am a woman gamer and enjoy playing games. For me, the entertainment is in playing, not competing, and to be honest with you, I get bored after an hour or 2. My fingers get cramped and my eyes get tired and no, I'm not willing or interested in spending 4+ hours a day to figure out the exact key mash that will give me the secret power boost at the beginning of a race as opposed to my boyfriend who is driven to play and compete online which is fine, I just prefer to do other things, unless it's Tetris, I can play Tetris for 5+ hours at a stretch. ;)

The incentive system to compete online and achieving a high ranking to earn rewards and points drives my boyfriend to keep going but are moot when it comes to me. Maybe there needs to be a different incentive system for women gamers to entice them to achieve a higher level of ability, I don't know.

Or maybe it's ok that there aren't professional women gamers.

- tokengeekgrrl

Re:Gaming industry has set the expectations

[Krach42]

I've been discussing this with one of my other friends, both of us seeming more enlightened than most woman-exploiting men.

I raised the point that there will always be women who will exploit their female gender to get ahead as long as males make it so easy to do. Most men are ridiculously gullible for a woman who knows just what to do. (The same also applies in reverse.) So as long as it's easy for one side to exploit the other, they're going to do that.

If that means that women gamers who are attractive can also make better money (or reach any such other goal) by using their bodies to exploit the male sexual interest in them, then that's what they're going to do.

All that said, I am a woman gamer and enjoy playing games. For me, the entertainment is in playing, not competing

This is a point that is very true for most every culture if not all cultures. Women are less competative than men, and more socially-oriented, and collaborative. That's not to say that no women are competative, but that on the majority most women are like you and don't see a need to do everything the fastest, bestest way possible, and spend hours honing skills to a sharp edge.

If a woman can develop their skills to the point that they are beneficial to the group that they are in, then that is sufficient.

My friend raises the point that one of the problems with this whole article and such is that people keep trying to make female gamers into male games. That just doesn't work. Women and men have separate goals to achieve in life, games, and entertainment.

To expect women to become ultra-competative and overcome male games in skill level is delusional at this time, and in our society.

That was a laugh...

[shalla]

The opinion piece wasn't really about female gamers. It was about professional gamers and the differences between the genders in who gets sponsorship. Aaron McKenna says that guys get sponsorships based on skills and women based on their looks, and that hurts the gaming itself. I wouldn't be shocked if that were true right now, but that's because we're discussing publicity and marketability. When companies are choosing who will be their public face, they tend to go with the best looking specimens with adequate skills they can find. That this hasn't yet taken over the male gamers' representations is the surprise for me. I'm sure that will be coming.

As others have already stated, gamers are gamers. I tend to hate articles about female gamers, or what it would take to draw more women to gaming, or why women don't like certain types of games, or how they play differently than men. If it's a good game and a woman has access to it and the time to play it and an introduction to it, she's likely to play it. Everything else is just gravy.

Angsty guilt fest

[caffeination]

I agree with the quote in the summary (merely skimmed through the boring, boring article) Most of us are decent people, and we'll treat female gamers with the same respect as anyone else (however much that may happen to be). Most gamers aren't dickhead teenagers, and most games aren't misogenistic trash.

Everyone, including female gamers, has to put up with the stupid minority. From what I saw and heard during the months I managed to do this on Xbox Live, I learned that girls are just as good at this as guys.

Girls are people, people are good at dealing with other people and the stupid shit they do. I think they (journalists) get so tied up in thinking about them being "girls" that they forget that class girl extends person.

Re:Did you read the same article I did?

[Minwee]

At the risk of having a feminist rage moment, a big part of the problem is that many of the women who _do_ get invited or sponsored to the big events aren't going their because of their skills, but because they look good in tight shirts with a corporate logo on them.

That not only leads to more talented players being passed over for not having "The Right Stuff" inside of their sweaters, but also creates a hostile environment for everyone. Why even bother trying to compete when you know that you're never going to be judged fairly?