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When Free Speech and Foreign IP Law Collide

segphault writes "Ars Technica has an interesting look at a recent intellectual property case where foreign copyright law conflicts with American freedom of speech rights. In this particular case, Sarl Louis Feraud International v. Viewfinder Inc., American enforcement of the French court's judgement on the basis of comity could establish a dangerous legal precedent that could lead to extensive censorship of the Internet. The article includes analysis of a relevant friend of the court brief filed by the EFF."

11 of 217 comments (clear)

  1. Free speech IP? by ComradeSnarky · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Does this mean that if I read out copies of Harry Potter over the radio (someone was sued for doing that some years ago), it's within my rights, since I have a right to free speech?

  2. Not about "free speech" by pubjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't jump to conclusions about this just because this is about France! This isn't really about free speech, it's about definitions of intellectual property. Under French law, fashion designs are considered to be protected intellectual property, but not under American law.

    Personally, given the current intellectual property landscape, I don't think the French case is unreasonable - no less unreasonable than much of the intellectual property law the USA is trying to force the rest of the world to agree to.

    1. Re:Not about "free speech" by quantaman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't jump to conclusions about this just because this is about France! This isn't really about free speech, it's about definitions of intellectual property. Under French law, fashion designs are considered to be protected intellectual property, but not under American law.

      Personally, given the current intellectual property landscape, I don't think the French case is unreasonable - no less unreasonable than much of the intellectual property law the USA is trying to force the rest of the world to agree to.


      Actually I would consider this to be an issue of free speech. If I wish to discuss fashion designs the only real effective dialog to do so would be in pictures of the fashion designs I'm discussing. To prevent me from being able to post those pictures is to significantly inhibit my ability to discuss them.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    2. Re:Not about "free speech" by pubjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually I would consider this to be an issue of free speech. If I wish to discuss fashion designs the only real effective dialog to do so would be in pictures of the fashion designs I'm discussing. To prevent me from being able to post those pictures is to significantly inhibit my ability to discuss them.

      But using that type of argument you can turn pretty much anything into a free speech issue. I wish to discuss X, but can't because I can't make copies of it, so it's a free speech issue.

    3. Re:Not about "free speech" by Tim+C · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Some would say that the final three words of that sentence were superfluous.

    4. Re:Not about "free speech" by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I wish to discuss X, but can't because I can't make copies of it, so it's a free speech issue.

      Actually, for literary works, you are allowed to use short quotations for purposes of criticism/discussion/research.

      In the present case, it's not as if the infringer had published the cut-out pattern (or whatever) used to make those garments, they just published photos of people wearing them. If publishing photos of the garments were forbidden, it would (by analogy) also be forbidden in the software industry to publish screenshots... Fortunately, most judges can still tell the difference between a screenshot and source code (or at least, I'd hope so...)

  3. Re:Free speech IP? by laughingcoyote · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Under the current legal system, no. Harry Potter falls clearly under US copyright law, and the radio reading would be considered a public performance. (My thoughts on how that -should- be are not really on-topic here.)

    It does mean that if you put up a website with information a foreign government finds objectionable, they cannot stop you unless what you're doing would also be illegal under US law. This is where the right to free speech is implicated-since websites are by definition viewable worldwide, if it's decided here that foreign judgments are applicable against US site owners, the most repressive governments in the world could submit a judgment against a US site owner, pass it along, and force them to shut down their website exposing, say, the atrocities that government has committed (since of course it is illegal to do so in many countries.) The French would raise hell if we tried to exercise a US law against a French citizen, and rightfully so. Similarly, French law does not and should not apply to those outside France's borders.

    --
    To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
  4. like lots of issues facing the world today by circletimessquare · · Score: 3, Insightful

    any opinion, or law, has no validity, unless it can also be enforced

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    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  5. Re:Free speech IP? by nogginthenog · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Free speech? In the USA? You're kidding me right? You must be thinking about some other place.

  6. Re:What is the EFF defending? by segphault · · Score: 5, Insightful

    By your reasoning you could just as easily say an internationally accessible server with web sites about democracy should be subject to Chinese censorship laws even if the server is physically in America and operated by an American company. Do you seriously want to see the censorship laws of oppressive nations applied universally to the Internet? And do you really think that every American company should be personally responsible for filtering and censoring their own content so that it meets the legal requirements of countless nations each with a highly diverse and dynamic set of laws?

    That kind of reasoning is exactly what the EFF is concerned about. If you read the article, you will see that applying foreign legislation that infringes on first amendment rights is fundamentally unconstitutional. The additional risks to civil liberties are all clearly spelled out in the EFF brief, which you might want to read before leaping to conclusions.

  7. Re:What is the EFF defending? by segphault · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Your first point isn't relevant to anything at all, because taking pictures doesn't constitute infringment. Publishing those pictures constitutes infringement under French law, but the pictures weren't distributed in France, they were distributed on the Internet by an American company. Under those conditions, French law is only applicable under the terms of comity. International copyright treaties like the Berne Convention don't even give protected status to fashions, so publication of the images in this case is only infringement if you argue that the Internet as a whole is subject to the regulatory practices of every nation simeltaneously.

    By enforcing a foreign intellectual property law on content hosted and distributed by an American server, the court would essentially be creating a legal precedent that would allow other countries to enforce other kinds of laws on American servers. Doing so would fundamentally alter the definitive nature of comity. Are you arguing that only intellectual property laws should be enforced this way, but not other laws regarding content regulation?

    I didn't twist your point, I just addressed implications that you obviously never considered.