Chinese Portals Pledge More Self-Policing

An anonymous reader writes "A slew of Chinese web portals have pledged to self-police even more, after signing on to a Beijing plan to 'clean up the internet'. Google and MSN have not joined the group." From the article: "The firms' pledge states that the Internet has become an important source of information and entertainment in China, now the world's second-biggest market with more than 100 million Web surfers. 'At the same time as the Web develops quickly, certain sites are transmitting unhealthy news ... and uncivilized voice services, including pornographic content that can be harmful to society,' said the pledge, which was dated earlier this month in a posting on Sina's Web site."

Comments

Are you sure it's China?

[tomhudson]

At the same time as the Web develops quickly, certain sites are transmitting unhealthy news ... and uncivilized voice services, including pornographic content that can be harmful to society,

Sounds more like something Alberto Gonzales and the Bush White House would say.

The sad part is, while I'm writing this "tongue-in-cheek", if it were to be a headline in tomorrow's paper, nobody would be surprised.

Re:Are you sure it's China?

[Rob T Firefly]

The really sad part for the US is, how many Average Joe Sixpacks would read that headline and fail to see a problem with it?

Re:Are you sure it's China?

[operagost]

No. The sad part is how many supposedly intelligent Slashdotters think it's perfectly reasonable to compare a Democratic Republic, with elected representatives, to a communist state. The difference between the two, in case you didn't notice, is that in the USA when the government makes bad decisions you can protest publicly and vote them out of office. When you do that in China, lines of tanks roll down Tianamen Square and you disappear.

Now if only the Chinese Goverment would pledge...

[Nova Express]

...never to commit genocide against its own people or against Tibetans, then maybe people would give their desires "to clean up" the Internet a little more credence. What China's Communist government wants to clean up the most is its own image, be it genocide, the Tienamen Square crackdown, it's owngoing repression of Falun Gong, or the horrific treatment of political prisoners in the Laogai (aka "China's Gulag"). I'm sure that pornorgraphy is a far lesser concern.

chosen?!

[muyuubyou]

Retard alert.

There is only ONE LEGAL PARTY in China. Get a clue and quit posting nonsense.

Re:Sick!

[Billosaur]

Going a little OT here, but the article gives one of the reasons for censorship as:

Controversial content has been under the spotlight recently after the widespread publicity surrounding an online video of a woman wearing high-heeled shoes stomping a cat to death.

Actually, it's that kind of thing that has to be reported and made available. It's like trying to hide under the covers -- sure, you don't see any bad things, but you don't see any good things either. More importantly, you don't get to choose what you think is "bad" and what you think is "good." I think we'd pretty much all agree there are some moral absolutes (not killing or torturing others, taking the property of others without express permission, right to worship freely, etc.), but for anything not so cut-and-dried, it's up to the individual to determine where those things reside in their moral universe.

Censorship is not just about keeping things from people, it's also about telling people what they should think or believe.

Clean the internet? We already did

[boingyzain]

I thought we already cleaned the internet earlier this month...

Re:China Bashing

[Billosaur]

Don't you guys just feel so good hating China so much?

I personally don't hate China. You can't hate a nation (never mind what people said about the USSR during the 50's and 60's); each nation is made up of diverse groups and not all citizens of a nation think alike. Nowhere is that truer than here in the United States.

What I hate is the Chinese government clinging to outmoded ideals and forms of control that in the end create hardship and ruin for the great bulk of the Chinese people. They treat most of their citizens like cattle -- just one example is the Chinese mining industry. The divide between the rural poor and the urban rich is a greater gulf than we have here. There is still political injustice and opinions contrary to the party line are not tolerated. Despite economic reforms, China is still a totalitarian regime.

To my way of thinking, the Chinese people deserve the same rights and privileges that I enjoy, but to get them, they will have to make the changes necessary to bring true reform. All I and others can do is urge them on and hope.

Concern for human rights is not a team sport

[cryfreedomlove]

Tomhudson, I'm against human rights abuses without regard as to who the perpetrator is. If human rights are abused by China, them I'm against it. If human rights are abused by George Bush, then I am against it. Those are my principles. What are yours?

Despite your tongue in cheek escape valve, the tone of your post apologizes for human rights abuses in China because you see some abuses in America. Does this mean that in tomhudson's world that two wrongs really do make a right?

Re:Concern for human rights is not a team sport

[H0p313ss]

the tone of your post apologizes for human rights abuses in China because you see some abuses in America

No... he's highlighting a parallel between a communist regime and the rightist Bush administration.

Re:Concern for human rights is not a team sport

[tomhudson]

Ha ha. Come on, if you're going to troll, at least put some thought into it. Be a bit original. You put the whole Troll Tuesday concept to shame.

One country is making progress, but not as fast as some would like. The other is turning back the clock. Pointing out that a story of the US making such a statement would be believable in NO way condones wrongs by either side.

Besides, I think BadAnalogyGuy has prior art on your posting style :-)

Now, if I had wanted to do some serious trolling, I would have pointed out that most western countries, with the notable exception of the US, consider state-provided basic health care a universal human right. Funny how China shares this value, but in the US, "no money, no candy-striper."

Medical problems are the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy in the US, when both direct http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/ hlthaff.w5.63/DC1 and indirect effects are factored in. And its not people who are without coverage - " 75.7 percent had insurance at the onset of illness". - think of that - more than 3/4 of those who went bankrupt because of medical bills had insurance.

What a scam.

Talk about preying on the sick and the weak - look at your local politician, and how much they're beholden to the HMOs rather than to the voters.

So, does the person who has to go bankrupt because of medical bills get to enjoy any of the benefits of capitalism, like accumulation of private property and wealth? Nope - the trustee gets to hand over everything to the creditors, with a few basic exemptions, and even this isn't enough to keep many people off the streets or bunking at a relatives.

Some simple math - " 1.9-2.2 million Americans (filers plus dependents) experienced medical bankruptcy". Multiply this by an average life expectancy of 72 years, and you've got 144 million people who will affected by a medical bankruptcy over the course of their lifetime.

That's half your population who would be better off under a "communist, socialist" system that other countries, such as that "notorious socialist communist pinko terr'rist havens" (such as Canada) have. Talk about a class structure with haves and have-nots!

Food for thought: http://www.bankruptcycanada.com/blog/canadian-and- us-bankruptcy-rates/

Bankruptcy Rates in the Canada and the US - The huge disparity is because of the health care system.

The US bankruptcy rate (6.9 per thousand) for the year 2004 is more than twice as high as the Canadian bankruptcy rate (2.6 per thousand). The main reason for the huge disparity in bankruptcy rates in Canada and the US is because of the different health care systems in the two countries.

Canada has universal health care for all citizens paid for out of taxes. The US system is based on private enterprise mainly provided by insurance companies.

A Harvard Study reported that half of US bankruptcies were caused by medical Bills (MSNBC) & (ABC News). The study was published online in February of 2005 by Health Affairs. The Harvard study concluded that illness and medical bills caused half (50.4 percent) of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001. The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually -- counting debtors and their dependents, including about 700,000 children.

Most of the medical bankruptcy filers were middle class; 56 percent owned a home and the same number had attended college. In many cases, illness forced breadwinners to take time off from work -- losing income and job-based health insurance precisely when families needed it most. Families in bankruptcy suffered many privations -- 30 percent had a utility cut off and 61 percent went without needed medi

Hollywood and the US comics industry

[Frantactical Fruke]

Sounds remarkably like what Hollywood did in the 1930s or so and what American comics publishers did in the 1950s in the form of the Comics Code: In order to avoid being censored by government legislation, they decided to censor themselves.

Movies abided by rules such as: No prolonged kissing - never show even a married couple in the same bed - no revenge plots (the hero just happened to kill his enemies in self defence while pursuing nobler goals) etc. ad nauseam. The excision of politics was just an unwritten rule, but followed particularly religiously until the 60s.

The Comics Code was even more rigorous. It killed comics as a form of entertainment for adults up until the 1990s. Horror comics, erotic comics, realistic violence etc. ceased to exist. Nothing but spandex pap was left in its wake. And if you say now that you're a grown-up who reads Marvel comics, tell me: Just how grown-up do you feel while you're doing it? I feel about 12 years old when I dive into X-Men.

Re:Enough criticism!

[The Snowman]

Chinese people elect their government the same way we elect circus clowns. They don't.

They had a revolution, and chose the bad choice over the really bad choice. Sure, some of them are content, but they know that they have no say about what goes on in their government. They know that the government hands out ultimatums such as this one (help us or go out of business) on a regulat basis.

The only way you can justify the Chinese people choosing their government is because they choose not to have another revolution. Given how difficult that is in a dictatorship with an iron fist, we really can't hold that against them.

The real question is what part the USA should play in helping them with their government. I say fuck'em. Let them do it themselves. We need to stop nation building and setting up puppet governments. If they never get a clue, too bad for them.

self-policing

[tigris]

The New York Times put up an interesting article this past Sunday about Google and China which discussed the self-policing mechanism:

American Internet firms typically arrive in China expecting the government to hand them an official blacklist of sites and words they must censor. They quickly discover that no master list exists. Instead, the government simply insists the firms interpret the vague regulations themselves. The companies must do a sort of political mind reading and intuit in advance what the government won't like. ... As a result, Internet executives in China most likely censor far more material than they need to. The Chinese system relies on a classic psychological truth: self-censorship is always far more comprehensive than formal censorship. By having each private company assume responsibility for its corner of the Internet, the government effectively outsources the otherwise unmanageable task of monitoring the billions of e-mail messages, news stories and chat postings that circulate every day in China. The government's preferred method seems to be to leave the companies guessing, then to call up occasionally with angry demands that a Web page be taken down in 24 hours. "It's the panopticon," says James Mulvenon, a China specialist who is the head of a Washington policy group called the Center for Intelligence Research and Analysis. "There's a randomness to their enforcement, and that creates a sense that they're looking at everything."

Re:Enough criticism!

[deadweight]

The idea that the individual is insignificant? The idea that order and obedience are the most important virtues? The idea that forced abortions are OK? The idea that slave labor is OK? I can't wait :(

Aliens Are Crazy, But Demons Just Make Sense

[Shihar]

I think FLG sounds as bat shit crazy as any other religion. We have Mormons, Scientologist, and Christian Scientist who all expose views that in the context of normal modes of thinking are utterly insane and flagrantly self-destructive in some cases.

Hell, even your average and boring vanilla Christian sounds crazy if you were not raised to accept their views as normal. Their religion is built around a Jewish cult leader who they are utterly convinced was killed, was raised from the dead, ascended to a magical utopian paradise with a being of pure love, and they believe that this person will return to Earth brining an apocalypse that will shatter humanity. That is a pretty fucking crazy view to hold if you are not brought up with it.

Further, if you listen to what FLG advocates, what they are doing makes perfect sense. They have done the same thing every other religion has done. They have taken some old religious beliefs (a form of old Chinese mysticism in this case), modified them, and used them to explain the things in this world that they don't understand and don't believe that there is an rational explanation for. In the case of FLG, they have developed a mystical explanation as to why the Chinese government is so brutal, the environment is degrading, and why people don't feel self fulfilled. Is their explanation insane? Sure, it is as insane as any religious explanation. Are the things they are trying to explain insane? Hell no.

In the same way an early Jew or Christian might blame demons, the devil, or God for things that we later have come to accept as having rational scientific explanations, these people have done the same. They worry about government corruption and repression, the degradation of the family, the environment, and the downward spiral that they see humanity in. The only difference between the FLG and any other person who worries about these things is that the FLG have assigned a mystical (aliens in this case) explanation to why things are going as they have.

If you take a step back and replace the word "aliens" with the more familiar "demons", then their beliefs suddenly become absolutely no more crazy sounding then some extreme Christian religions. Arguing that "demons" are ruining the world is hardly a new thought. They have just modernized it by replacing the word "demons" with "aliens".

Look, I am not saying you should go sign up for FLG. They are, in my opinion, utterly insane. That said, they are no more insane then any other religion out there. Just because you and I find their beliefs crazy doesn't mean that their followers should be chased down, imprisoned, repressed, and in some cases murdered by the Chinese government. I don't want to see FLG persecuted any more then I want to see Mormons, Scientologist, and Methodist persecuted.

Further, the actions of the Chinese government just incite these people into believing their dogma. If you held the belief that aliens (replace "aliens" with "demons" if that makes you more comfortable) are corrupting humanity, and suddenly the government starts to brutally repress you despite the fact that FLG is pretty damn peaceful and benign in what it advocates, would that might not affirm your beliefs that aliens/demons are out to get you?