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How Has Open Source Helped You Commercially?

Slithe asks: "In the past few years, OSS has proven that sharing one's source code can be beneficial to both businesses and their customers. More than a few young programmers are thankful that they were allowed to learn from professional developers by browsing through and hacking on 'enterprise quality' code. My question to developers of commercial OSS is this: Have you, personally, ever benefited from having the source code to your project freely available and dowloadable, instead of being kept under lock-and-key? Have you ever fixed a bug in your spare time? Have you ever sought outside help (providing source code snippets) on a particularly nasty problem?"

96 comments

  1. Open, but not as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    Special Report / Open-source business

    Open, but not as usual
    Mar 16th 2006
    From The Economist print edition

    As “open-source” models move beyond software into other businesses, their limitations are becoming apparent

    ILLUS.

    EVERY time internet users search on Google, shop at Amazon or trade on eBay, they rely on open-source software—products that are often built by volunteers and cost nothing to use. More than two-thirds of websites are hosted using Apache, an open-source product that trounces commercial rivals. Wikipedia, an online encyclopedia with around 2.6m entries in more than 120 languages, gets more visitors each day than the New York Times’s site, yet is created entirely by the public. There is even an open-source initiative to develop drugs to treat diseases in poor countries.

    The “open-source” process of creating things is quickly becoming a threat—and an opportunity—to businesses of all kinds. Though the term at first described a model of software development (where the underlying programming code is open to inspection, modification and redistribution), the approach has moved far beyond its origins. From legal research to biotechnology, open-business practices have emerged as a mainstream way for collaboration to happen online. New business models are being built around commercialising open-source wares, by bundling them in other products or services. Though these might not contain any software “source code”, the “open-source” label can now apply more broadly to all sorts of endeavour that amalgamate the contributions of private individuals to create something that, in effect, becomes freely available to all.

    However, it is unclear how innovative and sustainable open source can ultimately be. The open-source method has vulnerabilities that must be overcome if it is to live up to its promise. For example, it lacks ways of ensuring quality and it is still working out better ways to handle intellectual property.

    But the biggest worry is that the great benefit of the open-source approach is also its great undoing. Its advantage is that anyone can contribute; the drawback is that sometimes just about anyone does. This leaves projects open to abuse, either by well-meaning dilettantes or intentional disrupters. Constant self-policing is required to ensure its quality.

    This lesson was brought home to Wikipedia last December, after a former American newspaper editor lambasted it for an entry about himself that had been written by a prankster. His denunciations spoke for many, who question how something built by the wisdom of crowds can become anything other than mob rule.

    The need to formalise open-source practices is at a critical juncture, for reasons far beyond Wikipedia’s reputation. Last year a lengthy process began to update the General Public Licence—the legal document which makes available “free software”, such as Linux, an operating system that poses a challenge to Microsoft’s dominance. The revision will enable the licence to handle issues such as patents and online services. The drafting process uses the same approach as the software production itself. It relies on an open collaboration that has hundreds of contributors around the world. “What we are actually doing is making a global institution,” says Eben Moglen, a professor at Columbia Law School in New York and the legal architect behind the licence.

    One reason why open source is proving so successful is because its processes are not as quirky as they may first seem. In order to succeed, open-source projects have adopted management practices similar to those of the companies they vie to outdo. The contributors are typically motivated less by altruism than by self-interest. And far from bein

  2. open source got me LAID! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    No, just kidding, actually it didn't. Sorry to get your hopes "up".

    1. Re:open source got me LAID! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      Got me laid. 'Tis a true story.

      I'm a web developer. Mostly PHP, MySQL/PostgreSQL, etc. When I get my nice heafty pay-cheque from whomever I do a project for, I go out and pickup a hooker or two. ;-)

      -- if only it was that easy. :-(

    2. Re:open source got me LAID! by Flimzy · · Score: 1
      Free Beer...

      Free Freedom...

      Free love!

    3. Re:open source got me LAID! by Cros13 · · Score: 1

      What? Where? Where? huh?!? Awwwww shoot....

      --
      --cros13
    4. Re:open source got me LAID! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps the reverse: Getting laid gave you open sores.

  3. codes snippets != open source by fotbr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sharing code snippets to try to solve a problem doesn't really fall under open source. Most of the time snippets are shared for specific reasons, to track down specific problems, and its only the lines that are immedietly around the line causing the problem.

  4. Enterprise by dcapel · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm glad I can learn from such quality enterprise code as this:

    http://thedailywtf.com/forums/64597/ShowPost.aspx
    http://thedailywtf.com/forums/64833/ShowPost.aspx

    Excerpt for the lazy:

    public class SqlWords
    {
        public const string SELECT = " SELECT ";
        public const string TOP = " TOP ";
        public const string DISTINCT = " DISTINCT ";
        public const string FROM = " FROM ";
        public const string INNER = " INNER ";
        public const string JOIN = " JOIN ";
        public const string INNER_JOIN = " INNER JOIN ";
        public const string LEFT = " LEFT ";
    }

    --
    DYWYPI?
    1. Re:Enterprise by Knightman · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is one good reason for defining keywords as string constants is that if you later misspell any of them you get a compile error instead of going "WTF?" and wonder why your sql-statement doesn't return the expected data.

      Ie, if you do it right it is an elegant solution to catch spelling errors which otherwise might go unnoticed, if you do it the wrong way you get unreadable code.

      --
      --- Reality doesn't care about your opinions, it happens anyway and if you are in the way you'll get squished.
    2. Re:Enterprise by Knightman · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      No, I'm a developer. I mostly develop in PHP, Perl, C/C++, Java, VB and PL/SQL.

      Your comment implies that you jump to conclusions easily and regards developers not using your "fav language" as inferior.

      --
      --- Reality doesn't care about your opinions, it happens anyway and if you are in the way you'll get squished.
    3. Re:Enterprise by DrSkwid · · Score: 2, Funny


      Yeah, I can see why you'd think that approach was much less error prone !

      sql = sprintf("%s col1, col2, col3, %s tab1 %s %s tab2 ON tab1.pk=tab2.pk %s col1=%d and col2 in (%s %s fkey %s tab3 %s col4=3);", SELECT, FROM, LEFT, JOIN, WHERE, 1, SELECT, DISTINCT, FROM, WHERE);

      res = PQexec(sql);

      > if you do it the wrong way you get unreadable code

      come on then, show me an improvement

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    4. Re:Enterprise by DrSkwid · · Score: 2, Informative

      ok my next try, a slight improvement but certainly annoying to type :

      sql = sprintf(SELECT " col1, col2, col3, " FROM " tab1 " LEFT " " JOIN " tab2 ON tab1.pk=tab2.pk " WHERE " col1=%d and col2 in (" SELECT " " DISTINCT " fkey " FROM " tab3 " WHERE " col4=3);", 1);

      Why you can't rely on the SQL logging mechanism I really don't know.
      Postgresql will emit all of the sql executed and label is with ERROR if it didn't execute. I doubt another RDBMS can't do the same.

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    5. Re:Enterprise by penguin-collective · · Score: 1

      There is one good reason for defining keywords as string constants is that if you later misspell any of them you get a compile error instead of going "WTF?" and wonder why your sql-statement doesn't return the expected data.

      Yes, that sure makes a lot of sense! It's so much better doing that than actually checking the error code from the SQL library! And because it's more LOC, you are also more productive!

    6. Re:Enterprise by zlogic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is modded funny, but consider these two examples:
      1) string a = SELECT + a + FROM + b + WHERE + "param=" + c
      2) string a = "SELECT " + a + " FROM " + b + " WHERE param=" + c
      But putting it into a class that is completely isolated and doesn't have any methods (and otherwise SELECT will look like SqlWords.SELECT) is indeed insane.

    7. Re:Enterprise by ynohoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      one of the few advatages of COBOL is that SQL sytax is clean, and not restricted by any language quoting rules. If you run into this sort of nonsense a lot, it might be worth coding your SQL in COBOL subroutines you can invoke from *insert favorite language here*.

  5. Snippet? by Solemn+Bob · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you know the problem is in a snippet of code, you've already solved the problem.

    1. Re:Snippet? by Xtifr · · Score: 1

      Depends on how many nested levels of m4 macros that snippet expands to! If you think that identifying the snippet where the problem occurs means that you've solved the problem, then you've never worked with automake/autoconf. Or APL. :)

      Another case where identifying the snippet may not be enough is when the problem is limited to one (or a just a few) platforms, and you don't have access to those platforms. Then you need access to the platform experts.

      All of the example above (except APL) are drawn from my own experiences just within the last few months.

  6. CPAN modules == $money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I reckon my billing rate has gone up a couple of bucks for every CPAN module I've released over the years, especially for clients where I turn up and they are already using my code.

    Not to mention that by releasing it, I get a whole bunch of people to hammer my code and find bugs, so I don't have to. It's a win-win situation!

    Of course, since it's all on public display, uploading crappy badly-rating bug-ridden slop would probably have the opposite effect :/

    1. Re:CPAN modules == $money by hackstraw · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Of course, since it's all on public display, uploading crappy badly-rating bug-ridden slop would probably have the opposite effect :/

      Unfortunately, much of the closed source stuff I've worked with is crappy poorly-written bug-ridden slop. With the bugs in many closed source apps, I would guess that under the hood there is more of the same. I find that a vast majority of the GNU stuff to be very well written, easy to understand, and relatively bug free. I'm talking "real" GNU stuff, not slop that is GPLed and thrown on sourceforge (I'm not bashing all of sourceforge by any stretch of the imagination, I have stuff there :)

      Personally, I owe my career to open source. I learned the inside out of a kernel, how to program, the whole nine yards. Open source taught me as much or more than college did. College did not get me a career.

      Now, I'm going to nitpick the original post, because it seems confusing.

      1) In the past few years, OSS has proven that sharing one's source code can be beneficial to both businesses and their customers. OK, pretty much a statement of fact.

      2) More than a few young programmers are thankful that they were allowed to learn from professional developers by browsing through and hacking on 'enterprise quality' code. OK, pretty much a statement of fact reinforced by my experience as noted above.

      3) My question to developers of commercial OSS is this: Have you, personally, ever benefited from having the source code to your project freely available and dowloadable, instead of being kept under lock-and-key?

      Yes. I've gotten job offers from it. Having the source enabled me to fix bugs in things and/or customize them.

      4) Have you ever fixed a bug in your spare time? Yup. Even when I was "working".

      5) Have you ever sought outside help (providing source code snippets) on a particularly nasty problem?"

      I guess this is where I got confused, and by the previous posts, this seems to be the problem.

      Open source is _the_ way to go. It actually should be mandatory. Also, I wish it was that way with hardware as well. Even if its a pseudo-schematic, I would like to know how things work. I have some semi-pro audio gear, and they provided pseudo-schematics and I was able to figure out the signal path and what the adjustments did. English text is not anywhere as good as seeing a signal path so I know the chain of events, just like OSS.

  7. Hmm by killmenow · · Score: 4, Informative

    Aside from your wholesale copying and posting of the entire article here---a move which undoubtedly oversteps the bounds of fair use---I will merely point you to this article on Groklaw in which I think PJ deftly points out the the errors in the Economist article, thereby leaving me with little else to say but: troll much?

    1. Re:Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PJ's argumentation is sloppy; also, she suffers the same blindness to Wikipedia's flaws as so many other Wiki-fiddlers, as evidenced by these pricelessly delusional quotes: "And Wikipedia isn't run like that at all. For what Wikipedia is, though, it certainly works at least as accurately as the mainstream press [...] Wikipedia has its issues too, I've no doubt. But that is the point. It has no greater issues than mainstream articles, in my experience." That, friend, is pure unadulterated zealotry.

    2. Re:Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article is mostly positive on open source, but it's hard to argue with the few flaws it mentions. Sorry to parrot my sibling AC, but PJ sounds like a zealot who missed all the subtleties of the Economist article and wants to rail on the author for "errors" that are really her own misinterpretations from not having read the entire article.

    3. Re:Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikipaedophile is a better word.

  8. answers by Xtifr · · Score: 2, Informative

    > Have you, personally, ever benefited from having the source code to your project freely available and dowloadable, instead of being kept under lock-and-key?

    Do you mean me, personally, or do you mean the company I work for? No matter, the answer is yes in either case.

    > Have you ever fixed a bug in your spare time?

    Yes.

    > Have you ever sought outside help (providing source code snippets) on a particularly nasty problem?"

    Yes.

    Ok, that was easy. Next article. :)

    1. Re:answers by robthebob · · Score: 1

      I'd like to know how, which, why, if you don't mind?

    2. Re:answers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how is this facetious twat +5:informative?

  9. Yes, no doubt about it by I_am_Rambi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I work for Executive Forces, a private military company. Open source has put our company on the map, at least in web presences. Our web servers are running Linux with Apache, the email server is also running Linux with postfix, dovecot, apache and SquirrelMail for web access. For a startup, open source has given us oppurtunities that we would not have otherwise.

    1. Re:Yes, no doubt about it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha, ha, very funny. That site's a joke... right? You don't really work there? Corporate mercenaries don't really exist. ...Right?

    2. Re:Yes, no doubt about it by loftwyr · · Score: 1

      You haven't answered the question.

      How has the fact that the code is open and available made it better as opposed to closed sources. Both can be free, but how has the openness of the code benefitted you?

  10. It's all about the margins by endersshadow7 · · Score: 1

    I've done a bit of research on this, and plan on expanding it in the very near future, but preliminary research shows that OSS continually increases gross margins while decreasing R&D costs without anything but positive effects on revenue and/or profits. Unfortunately, I can't post my research since it's mid-research and not ready for release, but it's something to think about (and easily seen if you can read financial statements).

  11. Open Source has made my life way easier by urikkiru · · Score: 4, Funny

    I work for [CENSORED*], and we use the open source app [CENSORED*] by snagging it's source, modifying it a bit, and then deploying it internally, and only internally.(We don't distribute it outside of the company, so there is no one to whom we would have to give out our source to) This allows us to [CENSORED*] the [CENSORED*], and get [CENSORED*] on [CENSORED*]. It's a profitable business, as you can tell.

    * These censored bits brought to you by men in black coats, and my NDA. Enjoy!

    1. Re:Open Source has made my life way easier by Morrigu · · Score: 2, Funny

      Everyone over here at [CENSORED*] agrees. We love using [CENSORED*] and [CENSORED*] and it's saved us loads of time and money compared to commercial solutions like [CENSORED*]. Plus our customers at [CENSORED*] like how it [CENSORED*], and the way it does [CENSORED*] too. Everybody's happy!

      * Sorry, can't tell you why it's censored. Talk to [CENSORED*] if you want more info.

      --
      "We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - Major Mike Shearer, UK
    2. Re:Open Source has made my life way easier by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      snagging it's source

      "its".

  12. Yes, but in a different way by techno-vampire · · Score: 4, Informative
    Back in '84-'85, I did some work with a genius programmer, the late Daniel J. Alderson. We were at JPL, so everything was public domain, which is as open source as you can get. As I worked with him, I watched what he did and how, and that taught me good coding practices that I've used to this day.

    As an example, take a look at the functions in the standard I/O library for C. The various scanf() and prinf() variations use much the same arguments, but each one has them in a different order. There's no rhyme or reason to it, you either have to memorize the order or look it up. Not so with the functions Dan wrote! Part of his planning for a subroutine/function package was deciding what order the arguments would go in, and they were in exactly that order every time. (Many of the routines used either the same set of arguments, or a subset of them.) I was working with him because he'd gone blind from diabetes, and in all the time we worked on that package, he never got the arguments wrong because he'd planned it out ahead of time. In this case, there were only three functions that the average user'd need, and the rest were helpers for them. Still, if anybody needed them, they were there, and easy to use.

    Now, imagine if this code were being used in a current OSS project. (Unlikely; not only is it in FORTRAN, the problem it solved had to do with command lines and batch files, mostly on a VAX.) Not only would it be easy to use, it'd be easy for somebody else to check the calls and make sure everything was in the right order. Sanity checks become quicker and there are less obscure bugs caused by misordered arguments. He also kept his variable delcarations alphabatized, as well as keeping his functions (except main() of course) in alphabetical order. Made it much easier to find the one you wanted, I can assure you.

    --
    Good, inexpensive web hosting
    1. Re:Yes, but in a different way by renoX · · Score: 1

      Well the solution to stupid order of arguments issue is to use languages where you call function with the name of the argument instead of the position: while it makes function call a bit longer to write, it's far more readable and you have much less risk of making a mistake (and it's far easier to debug if you still make a mistake).

      IMHO every function call where the function takes more than one parameter should be done by name, not position.

    2. Re:Yes, but in a different way by techno-vampire · · Score: 1
      Nice, if you have a language like that.

      Oddly enough, that's roughly what that subroutine package did. Instead of having a batch file call a program with a huge list of paramaters (Most of them set to their default value and having to be in exactly the right order.) you'd create a namelist file. In it, you'd list variable names and values, in whatever order you wanted. The namelist reader would set the variables to the right value, not touching any others. There was also a namelist writer that would output the values of everything in the namelist, in the right format. If the next program you passed it to found variables it didn't recognize, it simply ignored them. Now, of course, with everything done via GUI, there's probably no need for it, but back in '84, it saved a lot of people a bunch of work.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
  13. Yes, yes, yes. by Anthony+Boyd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My career is almost solely attributable to OSS. Of course, I'd like to think I have some talent helping me, too. :)

    I started at Borland, as a Perl jockey, mostly. I got in trouble with customers for not using Delphi to power the Web site. But something about OSS made me feel safe -- I had been very poor before the Borland job, and I didn't like the idea of hanging my career onto products that cost $2000 -- what if I became poor again and couldn't afford the next release? It seemed like a way to lock myself out of my own toolset.

    I never became poor again, though. I fell in love with PHP & Linux. I started to specialize in LAMP. For a while I ran some OSS teams at SST, Arzoo, and Actuate. I bought more & more into the idea that there you give away the tools and sell the service. I started doing freelancing. I got a reputation for being the guy who fixes the bugs in apps that have lost their original developers.

    I partly got that reputation because I have fixed a lot of other people's products for free. And when I create a Web site (for myself, for profit), I package up my enhancements and release them to the community. In return, I get calls from recruiters, from people who will pay me $50 for a quick product install, and from people who see my work and want to hire me for big projects. Some of my Web sites have donation buttons, and they actually get used (not as much as I'd like, but still :)

    Anyway, to conclude, by integrating myself into the community, the community has helped me to stay afloat. I can pay my mortgage, and feed my kids. In return, the free products I use to make my living get free patches from me.

    My current big freelance project is building the auction for Napa Valley Vintner's charity auction. It's a Flash interface, which I didn't make, powered by a PHP backend, which is where I come in. I'm doing something worthwhile, and they're giving me fair pay. I may not have 10,000 customers downloading my product for $29.95, but I do have 10,000 friends who send me big jobs. They know that if I have paying jobs during the week, I'm patching their products during the weekend. It's a good way to make a living.

    -Tony

    1. Re:Yes, yes, yes. by T-Ranger · · Score: 0

      I hope your not taking any jobs at $50 for a quick install. Any consultant shop would be $100/hr, minimum of a 3 hour call out. So even if you charge them $150, its still a deal.

    2. Re:Yes, yes, yes. by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 1
      "...but I do have 10,000 friends..."
      You need to stop spending so much time on MySpace.
      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

  14. It's been great, commercial-ly by LightningBolt! · · Score: 4, Funny

    I use MythTV, the open source Tivo thing. It lets me skip commercials, so I'd say it's helped out, commercially.

    Hoo ah. Tough crowd.

    --
    Old people fall. Young people spring. Rich people summer and winter.
  15. Re:Open source is NOT about profit!!! by jericho4.0 · · Score: 4, Informative
    "That's why accepting money for writing software that will be GPL'd is seriously frowned upon by FOSS advocates."

    If by "FOSS advocates", you mean "FOSS advocates who still live in Moms basement". The GPL is about freedom, yes, but is not anti money.

    --
    "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
  16. I'm SCO - I benefitted a lot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    It appears all the line-for-line code between SCO stuff and Linux is actually stuff stolen *from* Linux, not *by* Linux - so I guess we at SCO benefitted from open source snippets, but my leagal team won't let me admit it yet.

    Insincerely, Darly McBride

  17. You may be joking, but Microsoft benefitted by ron_ivi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Considering their TCP/IP stack came from BSD, you could say that any network-aware application at Microsoft has its success due directly from open source. So it's very fair to say that the most successful company in the world's most successful products (anything Win95+) has its success due to open source. (And if you think google's more successful than microsoft, they use open source too).

    1. Re:You may be joking, but Microsoft benefitted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      And to the parent's Google comment - if Google searches have helped you then you too have been helped by open source software (by using a cluster of Linux boxes remotely) even if you don't know it. Between that and the BSD components that enabled Microsoft to get into the networking space, I think it's fair to say that virtually every internet user has benifited from open source software whether they know it or not.

    2. Re:You may be joking, but Microsoft benefitted by baadger · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Isn't MS replacing the stack in Vista? I wonder where they bought it from.

    3. Re:You may be joking, but Microsoft benefitted by Sique · · Score: 2, Informative

      But that's not the real question here. The question is not if you have profited from a specified piece of software, that by chance was open source, but if you have profited from the fact, that it was open source.

      So for instance I have profited from the fact that SAP's R/3 software is in a way open source that a registered developer on a SAP R/3 system can not only browse his own code or the code of fellow developers, but also the code SAP provides (very useful for debugging!), and (with a warning that this voids the warranty though) can even change SAP code. If you tell SAP about your modifications, and your project has a certain value to SAP, they will even setup an own system with your modifications at their side to help you hunt down bugs.

      SAP's source policy is not conform to full open source though. You are not allowed to distribute SAP's products with your modifications freely (you are allowed to distribute your patches though). But I have certainly profited from the fact that I was able to see, debug and modify SAP's codebase.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    4. Re:You may be joking, but Microsoft benefitted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, their network stack in *NT 3.1* came from BSD. For NT 3.5 they rewrote it using NDIS and TDI. Only some small userland tools (ftp, ping, etc.) come from BSD.

  18. Re:Open source is NOT about profit!!! by AuMatar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm going to have to disagree here. FOSS isn't about avoiding profit. Free software merely thinks there are things more important than profit, that need to be ensured first. Namely, the freedom of the user, as defined in the free software definition. If you can do that and make a profit, go for it.

    --
    I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
  19. Various ugly HACKS by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The best kernel hack I remember doing was back when I used ATI. I had an AGP 8x ATI card, which used the AGP 3.0 protocol (or whatever), which was not supported in Linux 2.4. As such, Nvidia and ATI both have built-in AGP support, although I believe they'll use the kernel support if it's available, and AGP 8x/3.0 is fully supported in Linux 2.6.

    Well, ATI has just as much glue code as Nvidia to tie the binary module to various kernels, and much of the glue code is open. AGP tends to open more of their drivers than Nvidia, including the AGP detection -- maybe the full support, I'm not sure. At any rate, it was broken -- it kept refusing to detect my card as AGP 3.0, and my video card would not work in 2x/4x mode.

    So, I found the detection code, commented it out, and hardcoded it as AGP 3.0. I didn't have the knowledge to do it right -- give an option (compile-time, module load time, kernel commandline) to force a particular mode, or figure out why it got the wrong mode in the first place. This hack would obviously break the module on anything but an AGP 3.0 system. But, it worked for me.

    I would not have been able to play games on my Linux without this hack. The hack involved would probably never be supplied by a proprietary vendor, and would take a bit more work to make it acceptible for open source -- or for other developers to even notice the problem. But I was able to make it work, for myself, on my own system, and I could not have done that without source code.

    And yes, this was a critical bug. I tried other workarounds; they all failed. I'm sure if this bug existed an entirely closed driver, like the one they distribute for Windows, I would never have been able to see 3D acceleration on my box.

    The counter-argument, of course, is that the Windows driver worked fine, because Windows is more popular, and more popular means hardware manufacturers write drivers for Windows, not the other way around. But every now and then, there's some showstopping bug, and I can either dig through the source and hack it (or fix it legitimately), or I can wait for a fix. On closed-source platforms, I just have to wait for the fix.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  20. Of course it has by DarkDust · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The company I work for wouldn't exist without OSS, at least we wouldn't do what we do now. We're doing VoIP products, and without Linux, the GNU tools, OpenSER and Asterisk we wouldn't be able to build those products since we don't have the resources to write stuff like that ourselves. We've patched almost everything to smaller or larger degrees so that the software fits our needs, and I've sent patches that are interesting to a wider audience back to the appropriate projects. We would never have been able to do the stuff we do with closed source software as we then wouldn't have been able to adapt them to our needs.

    And yes, I've also written patches/worked on OSS projects in my spare time. I'm an OSS developer for several years now and also learned a great deal how to code (and how NOT to code) from several open source projects. On a related side note: if you'd like to see how to manage a project (OSS or not) and how to write high quality software, I really recommend looking at SubVersion.

  21. one post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    for all the companies working in india/pakistan that regularly sell repackaged OSS often without informing the client and in violation of the GPL and the software license.

  22. More interesting question by Loconut1389 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    For me, open source has enabled opportunities that wouldn't have existed otherwise- in many ways, but here are a few.

    1) I love the stability of RedHat Enterprise Linux and the slower and more careful release schedule, but do not need the tech support- CentOS has been a boon for the organizations I work for.
    2) Robust internet services for free running on commodity and inexpensive hardware = less overhead. Who needs a dual xeon 3.0 ghz with registered memory just to run a small DNS or email server? End of lease hardware from tiger direct works great. A 2.4 ghz P4 is still overkill for a lot of things, but for a hundred bucks or so, who can complain.
    3) yum in conjunction with RPMs was a godsend for pushing out configurations/software to lab-fulls of identical machines. Simply push out an rpm that requires a package list and voila, yum makes sure that the machines grab those packages and their requirements. This is an oversimplification, but being able to manage several hundred machines with a few keystrokes is a miricle in itself, let alone the fact its free

    and many more

    Now the more interesting question, how have businesses you've worked for contributed to open source?

    I've often found myself working on a commercial project that depends on some open source code either as a dependency or as the framework for expansion. There are many cases where I've fixed show-stopping bugs or contributed new features that enhanced the OSS project in a non-trivial way.

    Every time such a situation crops up, it reminds me that OSS and commercialism are not in as much opposition as some in the industry think.

    The free time and hobby interest that many have is a huge part of OSS, definately, but commercial interest has produced a heaping pile of very real and sometimes previously very expensive code.

    OpenSource has and will continue to revolutionize the growth of knowledge and the capabilities of our machines, as well as lower the learning and creation overhead that is required to run a business. Things that used to take gobs of time to setup and maintain and wouldn't even be worth doing can now be done as an afterthought and an extra. Not to say that OSS replaces admins, but over time, as products improve and manage/configure themselves (rpms, etc) admins certainly can focus on other things.

    I for one welcome the OSS revolution.

  23. Very useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In my opinion it helped me a lot, i use oscommerce and i think is great. http://www.popotland.com/

  24. As a bartender? Yes, actually by Loligo · · Score: 4, Interesting


    I'm no longer a professional geek. These days I run the night shift at a bar in central Montana.

    Amusingly, though, Linux has appeared and helped my bar in the form of a digital jukebox that runs a Linux-based front end.

    This thing brings in more cash in a night than our old mechanical CD jukebox did in a week.

    The downside is that our net connection seems to die every Monday morning, so I have to show up to deal with that (being "the computer guy").

      -l

    1. Re:As a bartender? Yes, actually by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      could you perhaps srtup a cron job to
      1 shutdown the network connection
      2 do what ever magic you need to do
      3 restart the network connection

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    2. Re:As a bartender? Yes, actually by Loligo · · Score: 1

      Not really. It's a hardware thing (near as we can tell) that's causing it to go down every single Monday. It's also a software thing on the box itself that has to be restarted AFTER we restart the hardware thing.

      It's "open source" as far as the box being Linux-based. Beyond that? I can't do a damn thing.

        -l

  25. OSS has helped me but.. by Unski · · Score: 1

    ..a non-GPL project is the one that would be a more a concrete example; I develop in OS/X and Windows and deploy to Apache/PHP/MySQL on Linux. The LAMP part is obviously something that the OSS community has given me, and I am grateful to all of those projects. That said my work doesn't require me to modify Apache, PHP, MySQL or the Linux platform, and in that sense the GPL doesn't affect my work for the worse.

    There is another piece of software that I have used in my CMS project (a client wanted a bespoke CMS, I swear I did advise that we should shop around for existing solutions), and in the versions of the CMS I have gone on to sell to other clients. It's Kevin Roth's Rich Text Editor component, a collection of Javascript and HTML, and it is free as in beer, and the source code is visible for all to see. But it is not GPL, and some people have a hard time accepting that this work of art, a gift to the world IMO, could simply be 'free for reuse, anywhere'.

    I truly want to be (politely) corrected if I am wrong, but my understanding is if his work were under the GPL, then my work which is incorporating his work, would also have to be GPL.

    1. Re:OSS has helped me but.. by lasindi · · Score: 1

      I truly want to be (politely) corrected if I am wrong, but my understanding is if his work were under the GPL, then my work which is incorporating his work, would also have to be GPL.

      That is correct if you choose to redistribute it. If you don't send your code to anyone else, you can just use it, which is what I imagine you're doing anyways with a web app.

      The people who replied in the forum you linked to and complained about there not being a license are basically being silly. If he released it as public domain, then that code will be just as "free" (if not more so) than if he had released it under a FOSS license like the GPL. If he had released it as GPL, there would be no reason he couldn't release his next version as a completely proprietary program.

      --
      I have discovered a truly remarkable proof of this theorem that this sig is too small to contain.
    2. Re:OSS has helped me but.. by Unski · · Score: 1

      I see. Thanks for replying to this, because I have been wondering where my web app would stand in regard of this - if his work had been GPL so to speak. Your assumptions about the web app are correct. I know that the bottom line regarding Roth's RTE is that I can use it, for free or for profit, unconditionally. I couldn't ask for more in that respect, or any, as I think his work is first-rate. Thank-you for clarifying another concern I had as well - where my app would be as/if I move down the route of releasing the source to involve others - it could be a closed private collaboration, or from what you are telling me it could be shared with the open source community (not that I presume it worthy of the attention), I could GPL a version and still be able to move on with a commercial version.

  26. True story! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Actually, aMSN really got me laid once the webcam plugin was integrated. That's how I met my girlfriend and then... well, you don't want to know :p Thank you aMSN and keep up the good work!

  27. Free software IS about profit by SlappyBastard · · Score: 2, Interesting
    It just happens to be based on the belief that more growth for everyone means more profit for me.

    It is the belief that knowledge, time and services are greater commodities than just stuff you dig out of the ground and sell because it is shiny.

    Otherwise, a lot of corporations are making the wrong bet.

    Let's face it: if I do web design for a living, I benefit if more people, worldwide, are making websites and using them because it increases the likelihood that one of those new sales will come my way.

    --
    I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
    1. Re:Free software IS about profit by PHPfanboy · · Score: 1

      > Let's face it: if I do web design for a living, I benefit if more people,
      > worldwide, are making websites and using them because it increases the
      > likelihood that one of those new sales will come my way.

      Only if your assumption/ gamble pays off that you are:
      1) Really good
      2) Really cheap
      3) Really good at SEO or self promotion

      Otherwise, your assumption is relying on the kindness of strangers, nicht?

      --
      29 mpg. YMMV.
    2. Re:Free software IS about profit by SlappyBastard · · Score: 1
      Only if your assumption/ gamble pays off that you are: 1) Really good 2) Really cheap 3) Really good at SEO or self promotion

      Um... dude? I run a business. In all fairness, if I'm not good at self-promotion, I'm screwed. If I'm not cheap, I'll be beaten. If I'm not good, I'll never be contacted.

      So, I will gladly play those assumptions, because that is just the nature of business.

      If business were easy, everyone would do it.

      --
      I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
  28. Re:open source got me LAID! [FIXED] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry to get your hopes "up".

    Should have been Sorry to get your "hopes" up.

    Fixed :-)

  29. Re:Open source is NOT about profit!!! by russellh · · Score: 1

    cmon, even rms says 'free' isn't about price, it's about freedom. the freedom to redistribute the software and modify it, not the freedom from a salary to write the stuff. we're not socialists or communists. you might be. but whatever.

    --
    must... stay... awake...
  30. Re:Open source is NOT about profit!!! by linvir · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Developers for the likes of Red Hat get paid for writing GPL software. Distro vendors make their money reselling GPL software. Open Source is commercial, not some ideological Star Trek project to free us from money. You don't help it by comparing it to religion.

  31. Apache easy liscensing is helpful. by ErroneousBee · · Score: 1

    My company have recently been rolling an ajax based front end to mainframe applications. Being able to deploy Apache anywhere without having to get a license has helped with testing and training.

    I guess weve deployed over 40 Apache servers on everything from zSeries hardware to laptops. Some deployments are extremly ephemeral (usually for training or testing). To have to get a software license for each install would have slowed development, testing and training down to a crawl, and would have added a headcount just to manage the deployments.

    Development also benefitted from open source tools, such as regina, firebug, cygwin, etc.

    Access to the actual source has meant very little. Its the easy deployment that helped us.

    Where we were restricted, it was often because a licensed tool was being used. E.g. VSS stopped mainframe-side developers from seeing the web-side code. Im not sure management are much aware that VSS may have slowed development unnecessarily.

    --
    **TODO** Steal someone elses sig.
  32. same argument for presidents by tomhudson · · Score: 1

    FTFA:

    But the biggest worry is that the great benefit of the open-source approach is also its great undoing. Its advantage is that anyone can contribute; the drawback is that sometimes just about anyone does. This leaves projects open to abuse, either by well-meaning dilettantes or intentional disrupters. Constant self-policing is required to ensure its quality.

    Let's substitute "the presidency" and "the people"

    But the biggest worry is that the great benefit of the presidency is also its great undoing. Its advantage is that anyone can become president; the drawback is that sometimes just about anyone does. This leaves the people open to abuse, either by well-meaning dilettantes or intentional disrupters. Constant self-policing is required to ensure its quality.

    So when is the Economist going to do its share fore the "checks and balances" and pull a Colbert?

  33. REPL by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

    It's better to have an interactive read-eval-print loop and program using it.

    Sorry that your language doesn't seem to provide one.

    --
    We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
  34. In Unexpected Ways by SkiifGeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My company, Sûnnet Beskerming, has benefited from the OSS model in unexpected ways. In addition to providing a technological base which is infinitely customisable, many products and tools available under OSS-friendly licences allow us to quickly setup sandboxes and other testing environments where we can focus on researching and pursuing high risk (high return) ideas which would be cost prohibitive under commercial licencing.

    The OSS approach to openness has also aided us in determining legitimate sources of Information Security threat data that is then distributed via our Free Security Mailing List. Having the source code at hand allows us to independently verify the reports that we uncover, and from there make an assessment of the relative technical merit of that particular source. This also means that we can more easily identify the gems amongst the sea of reports and risk announcements, allowing us to elevate the weight of what would otherwise be an unknown source.

  35. Free gadgets!! by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm no programmer by a long shot and my ham-fisted code monkeying causes many more bugs than it fixes, but many of my fellow fledgeling webdesigners (all 47 billion of them) will agree that a new site featuring a plugin-ready CMS, a blog, a Gallery script, and maybe an integrated message board is insanely more impressive to a webdesign client than the old HTML+GIFs+JPEGs model of the mid 1990s. And those gadgets can all be had for free! Free, I tell you!! FREEE!!!

  36. OpenSource has help our Company by Chemkook · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Yes, OpenSource has helped my company. We are a global Tier 1 automotive parts supplier. We have about 32 designers that use Sun workstations to do CAD. They all run OpenOffice, Adobe, Mozilla, Java and Flash. I wrote a database web application to manage all of our engineering documents and accounting documents. A similar system from UGS would have cost over $100K + licensing costs. Our documents are scanned and saved as a PDF format once signed. The entire world wide corporation is using the system without a hitch. Our poor MS admins are running around chasing down stupid problems while I am able to advance my career with real programing and learning more Unix. I used Sun hardware along with Apache, MySQL and PHP and a little CSS to make it happen. All of my colleages say it's the best database system they ever used. In addition, I really wish that Dassault or UGS release a linux flavor or their CAD software. We are in the process of getting a new twin dual core Opteron workstation with 16GB RAM in order to run ANSYS on Linux. It will be similar to Sun's Ultra 40. This is a very exciting and critical time to be in the IT department and manufacturing. One wrong move and you are not competitive any more. Alot of work is starting to be sourced out to China. I can feel the pressure from all sides. Free OpenSource software has helped our company without a doubt.

  37. It's a Mad Lib !!!! by ericspinder · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I work for (noun) , and we use the open source app (noun) by snagging it's source, modifying it a bit, and then deploying it internally, and only internally.(We don't distribute it outside of the company, so there is no one to whom we would have to give out our source to) This allows us to (verb) the (noun) , and get (verb) on (noun) . It's a profitable business, as you can tell.

    I work for The President , and we use the open source app SNORT by snagging it's source, modifying it a bit, and then deploying it internally, and only internally.(We don't distribute it outside of the company, so there is no one to whom we would have to give out our source to) This allows us to spy the people who who for us , and get blackmail on reporters . It's a profitable business, as you can tell.

    --
    The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
  38. Open Source Has HURT My Company! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Open source has actually hurt my company. We are a VAR/consulting company. We initially billed ourselves as open source speciallists offering free software as well as the standard fair. The intent was that we would be unique, when compared to the competition, because we offered free/gratis software such as OpenOffice, Firefox, web servers, mail servers, spam/virus filters etc.

    We weren't OSS zealots that pushed open source as the only way, if that's what you're thinking. We offered Microsoft and Novell products and services as well as our OSS offerings. We thought that the gratis OSS offerings would be a good hook to attract new customers and we'd make our money from the services. Bzzzt!

    It took some time to realize it but, OSS was actually dragging us down. OSS is generally regarded as inferior, if for no other reason than it was free/gratis, and our company's image was stigmatized by simple association with OSS. We were actually losing business to our over priced competitors because of it. When presented with an opportunity to provide a spam filtering solution, we'd lead with a custom Spamassassin gateway. We'd lose the deal to a MUCH more expensive Synamtec Solution. When presented with a file server opportunity, we'd lead with a Samba solution, only to lose it to a much more expensive Windows Server. When this happened, we'd counter with the same Windows Server solution at a slightly lower price and still lose the deal because our image had been "tarnished" by the Samba offering. Talk about a kick in the teeth!

    We fought the problem for a long time and couldn't get past it. We then took the OSS offerings off our web site and started leading with high dollar Microsoft and Novell solutions. Business is great now! It's incredible when you think about it but, I can't give away a copy of OpenOffice. But, I can sell MS Office to the same customer for $350! $80 of that goes into my business versus nothing from OpenOffice.

    Yes, OSS has hurt my business. But, that's all over now.

  39. Free Software Helpful! (But not everything.) by reed · · Score: 1

    The company I work for (http://www.mobilerobots.com) sells both hardware and software.

    Some of the software is GPL, namely all the development libraries, and the robot platform usually runs Linux (though you can get Windows on it if you really want). We also use a lot of free software in development, or depend on free libraries. This lets a software development staff of four turn out a lot of useful stuff quickly, and using Linux of course brings down the customer's final cost by a few hundred dollars, as well as being a bit more technically suited to the application. Having free/open source development libraries is of course also a great benefit to the customer, who can hack it however they want.

    In our case it really is the hardware that brings in the dough; the software just makes the hardware a *lot* more usable!

  40. phpSurveyor in an hour by toybuilder · · Score: 1

    My wife and I ran are involved in a non-profit organization that ran a big event last weekend. After the event was over, we realized that we wanted to get some criticial feedback on the event, but had no survey mechanism...

    The next morning, I looked around freshmeat and found phpSurveyor -- grabbing and exploding the tarball to the right directory took about three minutes. Then I spent about 15 minutes setting it up and making changes to the source code to get around quirks of my ISP. I had a survey ready to go in less than an hour.

    The "free to grab", "free to change" situation of FOSS made it possible to run a successful survey while the respondents impressions were still fresh. (Granted, if we had planned for this ahead of time, this wouldn't have been necessary...)

  41. Eh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't get me wrong, I'm glad open source projects like Firefox and Open Office are out there and good enough that I can by and large ditch Microsoft's offerings. On the other hand, the last time I took a look at Mozilla code, I nearly passed out (it just sprawled and sprawled) and all indications point to OO being even worse. I mean, I've written software before (Windows/DOS and mostly C-derived languages), and it's _never_ looked so damned byzantine. So, while I'm glad it's out there and works in many cases, I wouldn't touch the 'open source' part with a 10-foot pole.

  42. Not 'commercially' (yet) but 'academically' by DeafByBeheading · · Score: 1

    I was working with a team of classmates on a software engineering project last fall, a C# digital photo organizer (note that it's a way-pre-1.0 release, even though it's quite functional now). We used the exiv2 library for EXIF/IPTC metadata reading/writing. A couple of weeks before the final deliverable was due, our app started nondeterministically throwing an AccessViolation Exception (something that C# does when an unmanaged library accesses invalid memory). We traced this to the exiv2 library, and, having the code, all the way to the offending function call. I didn't have enough C++ experience to realize what was going on (a string manipulation function was being called on a raw char buffer, not a null-terminated string), but I asked the developers on their forum, and they realiezd what was wrong and offered a patch two days before the project was due.

    Most of this would have been impossible with a closed-source library. We would have had to either move to another library (and there aren't many which actually write EXIF/IPTC) or stick with the ugly hack of a workaround that I came up with initially. It sort of worked, but was terrible for performance and conceptually hideous: since the invalid memory access was nondeterministic, we wrapped the whole thing in a while(true) try/catch block and just kept trying to do the metadata operation in question until it succeeded.

    --
    Telltale Games: Bone, Sam and Max
  43. The open source platform has helped by aCapitalist · · Score: 1

    We ship hardware with our code, so open source has allowed us to not pay a per-box fee to Microsoft or someone else. Our code isn't open source though.

  44. Bullshit! by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 2, Informative
    I've seen people stuck for weeks knowing that the problem is in a chunk of less than 30 lines of code, but not knowing exaclty where.

    Some code (eg. device driver code) is often extremely difficult to trace and debug and the cause and effect can often be difficult to tie togther. In once case I saw a problem where a device initialisation sequence of less than 20 lines was wrong, but very subtly so. The problem persisted for manny weeks. This was cured by a code snippet.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  45. Open source sure helps by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 1
    Most people use open source in its product form rather than its source form, far fewer want to, or need to, exploit open-sourceness. I have used open source in at least the following ways:

    Used gcc and friends as a development environment for turnkey embedded products. Mostly this means just using gcc as a product, but on occasion I've gone into the gcc/binutils code to understand how to get around a compiler limitation/bug.

    Used open source as a reference. For example, when I've had problems initialising a device/chipset, I might refer to Linux to see how it is handled there.

    IMHO, the most important advantage of open source is that you can investigate and fix problems when you want to. If you're using, for example, WinCE as an OS and you find a problem then you need to wait until MS fixes the probelm and releases it. MS's timescales and priorities are not the same as yours. With open source you become the master of your own destiny.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  46. Worked nicely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I worked for a company that was totally Microsoft based. Everything worked so terribly, I began optimizing and improving everything by porting it to linux. They loved it, but the IT department was incompetent when it came to linux. I left the company and now they are totally fucked. Ha!

  47. Yup. Timing window and/or reentrancy errors... by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 1

    ...can be real buggers to reproduce, and it can be even harder to track the root cause down once the thing can actually be tested.

    I don't have much experience with the former, but I've had to track down a few of the latter, and it *is* satisfying once you find it and fix it. :-)

    --
    Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
    The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
  48. Re:Yes, but in a different way ... architect by pbhj · · Score: 1

    >>> "genius programmer"

    Sounds more like a software architect or a software engineer to me?

  49. Worked for me... by AegisKnight · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When I was young, I developed most of my code as open source. It wasn't all that complicated or valuable, so why keep it to myself? My parents always asked me "You could be making money! Why do you give away the product of so much of your time?" I dunno, it just felt right.

    Fast forward six years. Working on so much open source has gotten me a ton of experience in many different areas of software, and it also landed me a kickass job at a kickass startup who, in turn, uses and contributes to many open source projects.

    Take a look:
    http://imvu.com/technology

    Whenever I'm mentoring people who are getting into programming, open source projects are the perfect place to start. Besides, if your source is closed, how are going to benefit from the people who are willing to take a look and give you feedback?

  50. Allowed me to get ahead of the competition by Heir+Of+The+Mess · · Score: 1
    While my competition was changing over to open source I pushed on with Windows and delivered before them. I wish I could pout something better here, but it's the only incident I could think of.

    Sometimes you have to compromise to get things done quickly.

    --
    Australian running a company that does C# / C++ / Java / SQL / Python / Mathematica
  51. Re:Enterprise... PRODUCTIVITY! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this is what you get when PHBs mandate productivity as lines of code per hour.

  52. Re:Yes, but in a different way ... architect by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

    Today that's probably what he'd be called. However, this was about 20 years ago. Also, I'm not exagerating when I call Dan a genius. Jerry Pournelle once dedicated a boot to "Dan Alderson, the sane genius." This namelist package required doing pointer arithmatic and moving bytes around absolute memory in FORTRAN, a languague designed to make that impossible. Dan did it, all in FORTRAN, with no assembler.

    --
    Good, inexpensive web hosting
  53. Do you know Google? by Lemmingue · · Score: 1

    They're Linux based and they earn lots of money