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Microsoft Trumps Google, Yahoo! R&D Budgets

Rob writes to mention a Computer Business Review Online article on Microsoft's commitment to out-spend Google and Yahoo! on innovation in the coming year. From the article: "Microsoft Corp will spend over $1bn on R&D just in its MSN unit, for the fiscal year starting in July, chief executive Steve Ballmer told an audience of would-be advertising customers. The money, part of the surprise spending package that recently gave Microsoft's share price its biggest single-day drop in five years, comes as the company struggles to catch up to Yahoo! Inc and Google Inc in the search and online advertising market."

24 of 201 comments (clear)

  1. ROI? by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's nice to know that MS will outspend Yahoo! and Google. However, isn't ROI a more important factor when it comes to things like this? I'm crystal-balling that MS will have the lowest ROI of the three over the next few years.

    --
    This guy's the limit!
    1. Re:ROI? by Herkum01 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you also notice, they are going to double spending from $500~ million on MSN to $1 Billion. I don't know many companies that believe they improve their performance just by doubling their budget. After you take into account just trying to rearrange the organization to accomodate that amount of growth can take several years.

      This is just another organization that believes that if they throw enough money at a problem it will fix anything.

      If you are a stockholder you are in for a wild ride for the next couple of years. Unlike a real rollcoaster, I would get sick from all the ups and downs!

    2. Re:ROI? by jo42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bigger Budget != Better Product

    3. Re:ROI? by mschaef · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This reminds me of an exchange between Thomas Watson of IBM and Seymour Cray of CDC:

      "Last week Control data... announced the 6600 system. I understand that in the laboratory developing the system there were only 34 people including the janitor. Of these, 14 are engineers and 4 are programmers.. Contrasting this modest effort with our vast development activities, I fail to understand why we have lost our industry leadership position by letting someone else offer the world's most powerful computer." - Watson

      "It seems like Mr. Watson has answered his own question." - Cray


      It looks like that might happen again...

    4. Re:ROI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      I'm crystal-balling that MS will have the lowest ROI of the three over the next few years

      Maybe, but why would this matter? MS are insanely wealthy remember, and it's real wealth, not stock market paper. I think the last projection I heard is that they could stop producing anything today and survive for a decade on liquid assets alone. If MS believe a research project has a chance of hurting a major competitor thereby helping them to dominate yet more markets in the long run, it makes perfect sense for them to pour hundreds of millions into it however low the ROI is because this is no money whatsoever to them.

    5. Re:ROI? by hlh_nospam · · Score: 1, Insightful
      This is just another organization that believes that if they throw enough money at a problem it will fix anything.

      Well maybe, just maybe, I can finally get a job at MS...

      Ok, just kidding. I would not fit in there anyway. I have way too much experience. The interview would be kinda like the one I had with Amazon -- when I saw that the interview team was composed entirely of children, I knew I did not have a chance.

  2. Input/Output by Kangburra · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I guess they're hoping Vista does well then.

    --
    Common sense is not so common
  3. 1bn dollar on search-based advertising? by pimpimpim · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Maybe they should first optimize the search, and then optimize the advertizing. It doesn't work the other way around, as people don't use search engines for the ads that are there.

    As long as google's search engine is better, everyone will search there. On the other hand google's search engine is still far from flawless, so msn could do a nice job if they improved on that. When people will have an actual reason to use MSN search, advertizers will have a reason to get their ads there.

    --
    molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
    1. Re:1bn dollar on search-based advertising? by penguinoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As long as google's search engine is better, everyone will search there. On the other hand google's search engine is still far from flawless, so msn could do a nice job if they improved on that. When people will have an actual reason to use MSN search, advertizers will have a reason to get their ads there.

      Nonsense. Given the assumption that stupid people are more susceptible to ads, adverisers should pay a premium to advertise on bad search engines.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  4. Sadly.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Most of this R&D money won't be spent in order to make their products better, but to acquire broad-to-the-point-of-meaninglessness patents in order to prevent the competitors making their products better.

  5. from the by to_kallon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    if-we-throw-enough-money-at-a-problem-it-will-go-a way department.

    --


    The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.
    -Oscar Wilde
  6. Rough Translation by kkovach · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We're not smart enough to innovate efficiently, so we're gonna spend gobs and gobs of money buying it! :-)

    --
    The less confident you are, the more serious you have to act.
  7. Imagine that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    No big surprise there.

    That said, I strongly suspect that those working for Microsoft work there for a paycheck -- nothing more, nothing less. Whereas those working for companies like Google love their jobs and really put the effort in -- in ways that can't be measured by hours or even "productivity". But I bet those differences has a very significant impact on the futures of both companies.

    Of course, this assumes that their work environments match the reputations of the companies. That may not be a valid assumption.

  8. Big difference between "R" and "D" by GGardner · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It would be better if software companies would break out Research from Development. Software ages so quickly that almost all software companies are continuously development new products. Research, however, is a different story. I'm guessing this 'R & D' for MSN is all 'D'.

  9. Meaningless by hanshotfirst · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Outspending doesn't imply out-innovating. The most innovative solutions or ideas often result in (or are produced out of a need for) LESS spending.

    Also, I've never considered it "innovation" when the primary business model is to copy other products' features and add a few pretty icons and obvious additions. I have yet to see a NEW idea come from Microsoft. I see a pattern of copying existing ideas, and integrating them closely with the OS so people ignore the original product since a good-enough version comes "free" with the OS.

    --
    Why, oh why, didn't I take the Blue Pill?
    1. Re:Meaningless by LaughingCoder · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have yet to see a NEW idea come from Microsoft

      This sentiment drives me crazy. Frankly it has been my experience that almost nothing is a new idea! It is remarkable how often somebody comes forward to claim credit for some "innovation" after a company like Microsoft (or Apple, or Sun, or HP, or Google ...) does all the hard work and successfully brings the idea to the marketplace. The world is full of blue-sky types who sit around and pontificate, and then sit back and wait for someone else to do all the work, and then grab the credit. For my money, the hard part is the doing, not the original inspiration. And you certainly can't claim Microsoft hasn't brought to life many, many good ideas, be they their original ideas, or those of someone else.

      As Edison said, Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration.

      --
      The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
  10. Common misconception by jarek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is not the number of heads you hire that makes the difference, it's the creativity of each individual that counts. Common view by CEO's is that a certain problem requires so and so many people wich have a given set of buzz words on their CV.
    If fact, what you need is to identify the creative (and unique) individuals and it does not matter how many people you have hired unless there is process in place in the company that identifies those individuals and gives them the lead.

    1. Re:Common misconception by pubjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is not the number of heads you hire that makes the difference, it's the creativity of each individual that counts.

      It's not even that. Ideas are easy for creative people. It's implementing creative ideas that is hard.

      It bet there are already lots of good ideas within Microsoft, trapped under the fat arses of the middle management.

  11. They just don't get it by bogaboga · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Those at Microsoft just dont't get it. One wonders: Did Google necessarily out-spend Microsoft in the beginning? Nope! They simply did what the masses liked. That was fast, unbiased results in a search result. To-date, Microsoft's search results on Linux are way biased toward switching to them.

    May be some of that money be spent on licenses. This is because departments at Microsoft are treated and still treat each other as mini coporations. They bill each other for services.

  12. Mythical man money? by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is this a case of Microsoft assuming they can throw vast amounts of money at any problem and solve it better than other people?

    I mean, nine women can't have a baby in one month. Maybe, just maybe, the reason why Google is out innovating them is they either have smarter people, better development practices, or don't have a bunch of historical baggage of other products they need to slavishly support.

    I guess from Microsoft's perspective, it's good to spend money on R&D. Hopefully they'll make better products, and at a minimum they'll probably get to write it off on their taxes.

    In the long run though, I wonder if Google won't simply out-do them with fresh thinking, new ways of doing things, and a completely different business model than Microsoft. This may not simply be a matter of keep throwing vast amounts of money at the problem until it becomes easier.
        This may require some more fundamental changes.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  13. Typical... by The_Isle_of_Mark · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Microsoft throws money at its problems. Like most things in modern America more money usually means more success, right? Bully: I am going to beat you up. Geek: why? Bully: I am bigger than you and I can, that's why! Developers! Isn't Microsoft a software company?

  14. Outspend? by 19061969 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They'll do even better when they start out-thinking their competitors.

    They've been outspending Apache for years in the webserver market. What are their respective market shares again?

    --
    bang goes my karma... again...
  15. Re:Money as a constraint by electroniceric · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You're on to something, but I don't think it's just the money. While a big influx of capital and corresponding big expansion is almost always hard to pull off, Microsoft has several other factors that squelch a really exploratory culture. First of all, there's the slavish devotion to the Windows platform - everything at Microsoft must ultimately drive revenue on the Windows platform. That's due to their fundamental formulation of attracting developers by building tools around the Windows platform, rather than around some domain of tasks and. Google is not built on browser or not-browser or any language, framework, or toolkit - it's built on search. Unless Windows Live really deeply gets this, R&D dollars will almost certainly fail to change Microsoft's course. Then there's the slavish devotion to backwards compatibility - it definitely keeps their platform alive. And finally, because of their vast visibility (security-wise, DOJ), the culture has evidently become very process-oriented, and it's hard to be exploratory in that environment.

    Microsoft has many very, very smart people working for it, but it is fundamentally a business-run company and not an new paradigms company. Their problem is neither lack of money nor lack of smart people to do "R&D" - it's that their leadership has refused to change the fundamental course of the company. Until they do that, "investments" are moot. Probably the easier thing for Microsoft to do would be to try to subtly shift their business model from being the Wal-mart of business computing to being a higher-margin, enterprise-focused software vendor like Oracle or SAP. With their capital and market reach, their odds look rather good in the ongoing consolidation of that space. As long as they try to merge the consumer space with the enterprise space by tying both to the Windows platform, they'll continue to lumber more and more slowly.

  16. Aside from the normal prattle... by Churla · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One thing some of you folks might want to consider is that this might be the rumbling of the "big bear" waking up finally.

    MS built an empire on some core products. They have rested on those laurels for a while now. They built pretty houses, donated to charity, even threw the occasional chair. Maybe this is them waking up and saying "well what do we want to do now? Hey! Let's actually get back into the serious software business!"

    What they have initially to lay out is more capital then most second world nations. You can claim all you want that MS can't buy innovation with money, that they have to find people that "love" their work and all those are at Google or whatever. But I would hold that with deep enough pockets they can start going around to people with big but hard to quantify ideas and say "here's a bucket of money if you think you can make your idea happen".

    They might be gearing up to take the Yahoo/Google approach to software and services development and throw several things at the proverbial wall to see what sticks.

    As much as the mantra of /. is that all things MS are big, stupid, hated, and evil I would encourage people not to count out the big bear just yet.

    --
    I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore