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Employers Trolling for Current Employee Resumes?
powderhound asks: "Recently, my employer started looking for new employees and started to find the resumes of current employees on the job Web sites. I've heard that management was not pleased. In the old days, before Web job sites, you could job hunt with relative certainty that your current employer would not find out until you gave notice. Now, any employer wishing to check on their employee's desire to find a new job need only sign up on the job Web sites and start trolling. How do we, as employees looking to change jobs, protect ourselves from possible discovery, and even worse, retribution? What have you done to protect yourself? Do you think employers are trolling job sites for their own employees?"
The real problem is that your employers didn't recognise their employee's discontent and ambition. Rather than opening a discussion to improve the quality of their employment they chose to become displeased. It's no wonder they're experiencing employee retention issues, they have an aggressive and hostile methodology in dealing with their employees.
Move on, move on.
Don't include your real name?
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Don't post your resume on a job site.
Most employers don't hire by searching resumes on the web anyway. They post a listing and wait for the applicants to come to them. Also, the old way of finding a job is still the best. Use your network of contacts, or find a reputable headhunter (ask around. 1 headhunter in 100 isn't a schmuck, and somebody you know probably knows which one it is).
If your resume isn't out there in the public sense, you don't have to worry about your employer finding it. If posting your resume is all you're doing to find a job, you certainly don't have to worry about getting hired either.
...If you are thinking of "moving on", do not ask your current employer to match any offer made by anybody else: the reasoning being that even though they may consider you worth paying a little more to keep right now, they'll also consider you disloyal and a potential future problem. It's a fast track to being marginalised and finding your name at the top of the down-sizing list. Either take the new job, or silently stick with your existing postion.
I should preface this comment with the fact that I'm only 22, and barely in the "real world" myself- so remember that although I may have no idea of what I'm talking about from experience, I think what I'm going to infer does make sense- and perhaps someone who has seen more of the world can validate or invalidate my ideas. That said, here goes:
Before the advent of sites such as Monster.com, etc. job hunting was a fairly active pursuit. It involved looking at potentially interested companies- sending in your resume to them, etc. Now days, job "hunting" can be much more benign. The fact is that it's quite reasonable to be perfectly content with ones job, and not actively seeking a new employer, but still to have your resume online 'incase something better comes along'. In fact, I would be that many of the people who's resumes were posted on Monster.com had posted them there before they got their current position.
It seems that the optimal solution is really to just get Managers/HR drones to realize this and to not associate running across someones resume online with the idea that they are actively searching for new employment.
If HR still doesn't like it (especially if where you work is an 'At Will' employment place), then I would politely inform them that- if they are worried about you leaving then they should consider negotiating a contract for your exclusive employement, and if you are able to find mutually acceptable terms, then you will remove your resume.
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
Then if you're current employer comes across your resume, you can dismiss it with "it's from when I was looking before this job". The obvious flaw is that if you've been in your job for a great number of years, then it's not a very solid story (or an adequet resume for that matter.)
Alternatively keep your resume on an external website, (which can always be current), it allows you to monitor and traffic who visits your resume, as well as say, block the IP range of your current employer/their chosen recruitment company.
1. Collect resumes posted to the Web on common job sites.
2. Submit them to employers with their contact information replacing yours.
3. Not tell you about it unless they get a bite.
4. Contact you about the job if they do get a bite, but not tell you any of the above.
Personally, I don't like the idea of any old person having access to my resume. It's too much information to give out anonymously. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a "passive" way to get a job. You have to go through the work of contacting people, by mail or Email yourself, rather that tossing your resume out there and hoping for a bite. This isn't the 90's after all, the job market sucks. (Sigh... I remember companies giving away Palms just for accepting an interview. Oh well, I made out pretty well myself, until the crash...)
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
"How do we, as employees looking to change jobs, protect ourselves from possible discovery, and even worse, retribution?"
Free market. You can sell yourself with the same degree of freedom that he shops for employees.
Offer to curtail your freedom, if he curtails his. Bet he'll not bite.
Careerbuilder, Dice.com, Monster.com all have privacy options. One I use goes is similar to this: "keep my resume searchable but hide my name, phone number, email address, and my current employer's name"
So how do future employers contact you? They use the contact job seeker option on the website, such as Dice.com, and Dice would then forward the email to you. It is then up to you unveil your identity when replying back to the employer.
What you can do to further your privacy is use a new email address that doesn't have your name in it to inquire more about the job opportunity.
Good luck!
"Persistence is annoying success." - ghee22 11:28:1999 - 10:53:PM
The easy way to defuse the situation before it ever starts is to post the resumes of your company's leadership...then leak a little blurb to the local rag from a payphone...with any luck scandal will engulf your workplace allowing you to do whatever you want.
Umm, isn't the word 'trawling?'
Then again, I'd love to mod my employer down...
Cogito, ergo sig.
Well, it's not entirely related to this story, but I figured I'd share a little experience I had. In Feb of 2004, I was laid off. I was in the middle of creating some artwork that I was posting on a web-forum for others to watch the progress on. So, the goal of that piece became to make it ready to throw on my demo reel so I could seek work. I even named a couple of places I was gunning for. Unfortunately, it didn't look as though I was going to finish that piece as soon as I would have like, so I left the thread there and moved on to other stuff.
One year and 3 days later, happily employed, I found a little time one night to resume that piece. Once satisified, I posted the image. Unfortunately, I had forgotten to set my alarm that night. I overslept the next day. When I finally arrived at work, my boss was real happy to see me. You see, this forum I was posting artwork to was the exact same forum that he discovered me with. He read these February posts about gunning for a job at these two other places and became concerned. That, coupled with my lateness to work, gave his imagination a lot to work with. By the time I got there,though, he had discovered the YEAR of the post, and a good laugh was had by all.
There's no real moral to this story unless you seek it. It's just my own little anecdotal evidence that one should be careful about what he or she says on the net. This may seem like common sense, but it is funny how these little things can nip you in the rear. In my case, it was totally accidental.
This probably isn't all that relevent to the story. It might have been a more useful post in another story recently about somebody getting in trouble at work over something found in a search engine. No offense taken if this is considered off-topic, but yeah, employeers can see you on the net. Behave.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
I had been looking for a new job at my last employer for about 6 months before I left(every employee knew, except the owner, and it was because of his personality that I wanted to leave).
One of the huge tech firms in Ottawa was having a career fair(Cognos) and I decided to wander over to see if they needed any techs. While waiting in line I got interviewed by the local paper(the Citizen) and my quote was included in the article along with my name. Of course this gets back to my boss about 2 weeks later, via one of his clients who recognized my name(never found out who, don't really care).
Boss could not do anything, it was on my time(weekend) and my personal business. It pissed him off, but if he did _anything_ it would have put him in a very bad situation. Firing me would have been without cause, I was already in the lowest job in the company, (with coresponding pay) and I basically could not be touched for it.
As in this case, maybe your boss should be wondering why so many of their employees are looking to get out.
Now, I have a new job, and a 25% increase in pay. I really love the part where I hit my yearly review at my old job and they gave me 0% pay raise! When I left that company they had to hire three people to replace me.
I'll stop ranting now, enjoy!
On Arrakis: early worm gets the bird. Magister mundi sum!
a 'right to work' state, is simply one that cannot have closed shops. in some states, if a workplace has a union then an employee must join that union to hold their job. in a right to work state, you can work for an employer and choose not to join the union. to my knowledge it has nothing to do with grounds for termination.
i do know that in AZ, which is a right to work state (but like i said i don't think the issues are connected) an employer can terminate someone for pretty much any reason (outside discrimination or something else illegal) but they have to pay part of the persons unemployment unless they can prove that person was fired for some good reason.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
I have my resume posted on all the major job search sites and on my personal website. If the company I'm working for wants to make hay about my resume being available online, I'll tell them what I told the last guy: I'll find a better job, make more money, and be happy at your expense because you let a productive employee walk out the door. I'm not even hiding the fact that I'm laying down the legal groundwork to start a part-time consulting business that I'll take full-time in five years. Your career is your responsibility. If you let your job hold you back, you have no one to blame but yourself.
My boss usually asks me where I'm sending my resume and if they have any management positions open...
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
There is one truly universal rule governing employment in the United States, the "at-will" doctrine. Just as your employer is free to fire you at anytime minus a contractual obligation, you are free to quit your employment at anytime minus a contractual obligation. There are only a few laws at Federal level protecting you against wrongful termination or harassment with the purpose of forcing you to quit, and those few laws are related mostly to whistle-blowing and discrimination based on race, gender, and disability. At state level, most state laws merely echo Federal laws, but with additional punishments. Depending on your jurisdiction and the level of the retaliation, you could have a wrongful termination lawsuit if you are forced out.
But seriously, that's not what's truly important. If you're pretty sure your employer will retaliate against you for having a wandering eye; then you need to start sending that resume out to even more places because chances are, your work environment is not very good, and you're likely not very happy where you are.
Of course, you might understandably not want to injure your employer, but in certain circumstances, I wouldn't even bother concealing the fact that I am looking for new employment, such as if my employer:
- runs the company like a private kingdom, and you'll need to marry into the royal family in order to get a promotion...
- buys high-priced luxury toys for himself, then screams at your entire division for turning down the thermostat or allegedly stealing sugar packets and coffee...
- has created an uncertain work environment where all your goals are short-term and involve just getting to the end of the day without getting fired or laid off...
Finding new work is a lot easier than reviving that part of you that has died inside after putting up with a mentally tortuous workplace.
Of course, you can take all of that as a grain of salt because, while I do in fact have a resume, I'm just finishing my first year at the University of Chicago and nobody wants to give me a job anyway.
Bottles.
The problem is when they look at the resume and they say "hey, this person says they are currently working for us but we have no record of them in the system" and they they contact you and discover who you really are (since your contact info probobly matches the info your company has on you).
Bottles.
If your boss wants to troll job websites then let him/her; s/he will eventually get banned and then you can post your CV without trouble.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
Last semester I interned at a computer consulting firm as a human resources recruiting assistant. The job was far from what I wanted to do, but I was in a specialzed political program and they felt that getting the CS major away from the keyboard would be more in line with that. I did learn a lot that I would not have learned if I were in a software development role, but I am certainly NOT an HR person. Bear with me, this is all very important for job seekers and does tie into the topic.
Anyway heres how it goes when a company doesn't do all/any of its own HR. They have a list, sometimes exclusive other times not, of HR/Consulting firms that they send job requests to. Those requests specify the length of the contract, the salary range, a brief (VERY) job description, and desired skills. It then became my bosses job to hand me that piece of paper from which I had to parse out a monster (we ONLY used monster for some reason) search string and start calling people.
First off we had an implied policy that we didn't bother with confidential resumes. Send an email and then leave it. Our response rate from those was exceedingly low, single-digit percentages.
We did have an easier time than many consulting contracting firms because nearly all of our contracts were temp-to-perm and my employer had farily good benefits. The way that works is a new hire was an employee of ours for 3 to 6 months, recieving pay and benefits from us while working for our client. At the end of that term, if the client was happy the client could then hire that employee on as thier own without paying us a finders fee. My employer got a (significant) cut, our clients got good people, and good people got full time, permanent jobs.
That sounds all well and good but human resources is not some place I can work and feel good about it. I had to look at a resume, review the stated skills in comparision to the desired skills, look at the employment history and see if/how those skills were actually used, and if that matched then I made a call (resumes with phone numbers get priority, because we can get you right away) and talked to the candidate to see if they were really interested.
Now I get to take a job description that was less than a paragraph with some notes/comments from my boss and tell (NEVER sell) the candidate about the position. Then if they were interested I had to ask questions and see if this person really had what we wanted for the job. It was hard because my boss (and by implication our clients) had very specific requriements, there was no room for 'I think this guy would be good' I had to take the vagaries of resumes and HR talk and salary requirements and quantify them. My coworkers (Hi Jeff, Julie, Lee, and Steve!) were great people and could handle that. It is very difficult.
Now coming back to the point, when we saw a resume of on of our people. We DID NOT CARE. If anything it was a good guide, as I'm reading the first few parts of the resume "Oh wow this guy would be perfect....because he is already doing (job) for (client).". I usually printed those out and used them as examples to compare to other resumes.
If you are looking for something better and not serious about going to a new job, you are wasting my time and yours. If you are "seeing whats out there" then you are a liability, it looks bad for us when an employee quits in the middle of a contract, it wastes my time, it wastes our clients time, and it shows an apalling lack of responsibility on your part. We were not hiring short-term contractors who were looking for adventure and new jobs every 3 months, we were looking for reliable, competent, full-time, well paid, permanent employees. If you want to see whats out there tell us when we call, we'll tell you what is out there, but we have other shit to do. Don't sit there chatting us up.
If you honestly are looking for a new job then I offer you the following advice. If you have an itemized list of skills, programming languages, apps etc. on your resume you need to be able to te
Yes, there are lots of bad recruiters out there. I got so upset with the incompetence and wasted time from bad recruiters, that I started a website to track who's good, and who's bad. Recruiter-Rater lets you find and rate technical recruiters -- before you send your resume. Think of it as a public access recruiter database, without any marketing information. Users are free to post recruiters, post comments, and of course, rate them.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
I don't think management would be stupid enough to fall for the "it's always there" excuse if you're actively keeping it updated.
Just point out to them that since you live in a 'right to work' state you need to do this. And, you'd be more than willing to remove it in exchange for a nice long term contract that provides *you* with the security *you* want.
Or, they can hire stupid people and see how that works out for them...
--Phillip
Can you say BIRTH TAX
I deliberatly [1] spell my name / address slightly differently.
I won't show up if anyone googles for the real me, yet dosn't get anyone suspicious if I use a deliberate fasle name.
An added advantage is you get to see were employers/agencys share your details / mailing lists etc as when company X post something to you, you know they must have got your name from company Y as it contains the misspeling you gave solely to company Y.
[1] Yes I know it's spelt wrong, Im dyslexic and cant be arsed running ispell OK.
Anyone quoted by a reporter knows how little they understand
Don't believe what you read is the truth.
This way, I'm not bothered by spammers, currrent employers, or those jerks who cruise Monster.com trying to lure talent ot their own agency.
Way back before teh intarweb, I was working in a factory and really *needed* a raise, I just couldn't cut my bills with what I was getting. I liked my job OK, just needed around another half a buck an hour or so (which was significant then). I found a job listing in the paper at a rival factory, similar job to what I was doing. I left the news paper classifieds opened to that page on my workbench and took a long lunch hour, like an hour and a half. I never applied for the other job,just went and ate lunch, but when I got back the foreman was waiting for me and I got took to the office, where I got my raise. I had already made a request previously and gotten shut down.
Yep, a calculated risk, could have gotten fired, etc. At that point, I didn't care, either way I was not getting enough loot, plain and simple, it was either get the raise or go seriously looking around anyway, so I thought I would try silly melodrama and it worked.
Today,though, I don't think I would do that, I would make dang sure I had another job before borking the current one, the job climate is not the same today and all the cost of living factors are so much higher (relative AND bar knapkin figures adjusted for inflation).
So, what is wrong with using a code name on job applications, at least the web facing ones? You could at least have the first level of anonymity that way for your resume.