Free Comic Book Day 2006

Julio Ojeda-Zapata writes "It's Free Comic Book Day (May 6), and what better way to mark the occasion than a comic about comic books? A reporter and artist at the St. Paul (Minn.) Pioneer Press newspaper teamed up to honor the comic-book form -- imitation is the finest form of flattery, as they say. The comic is available online as a slide show, as well as in downloadable PDF form. As a bonus, the paper's 2001 manga-style tribute to manga (by the same artist, but with a dramatically different look and feel) has been reposted." More information is available at the official Free Comic Book Day 2006 site.

Comments

Limitations of the comic format

[CRCulver]

I recently read Watchmen , which I had often heard comic fans praise as elevating the comic format to legitimate literature. I found it rather disappointing, for reasons I set out in my Amazon review (namely the trope of the supervillian explaining the whole thing to the heroes). What comics would you propose to someone who wants to read something just as deep and well-crafted and a novel? I've admired Neil Gaiman's prose efforts, do the Sandman comics hold to the same fine standards?

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[joe 155]

you want something as deep and well crafted as a novel then it'll pretty much have to be a novel. There are limits to what the comic/ graphic novel format can do, you can't really have pages of deep description, it all has to be able to be expressed pretty much as a picture with only fairly small amounts of dialogue. If you don't like gory pictures and violence then a lot of the stuff out there won't be for you. I thought spawn was quite good, although tastes will be as individual as what you like to watch on TV.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[EvilIdler]

Oh yes, Sandman is deep AND entertaining. There are also other comics
that can be considered to be in the same universe, like Lucifer, Books of
Magic and Hellblazer. The characters certainly mingle now and then.
(Any of these series will introduce you to a ton of different writers
and artists who have made many other comics worth reading)

Poison Elves is another indie comic that tries to be more than just
action drawings, although there's an unhealthy amount of murder at times ;)

100% is the name of a 5-parter by Paul Pope. It being a Vertigo release
should be a hint that it's not for kids, either. One word: GASTRO!
Sci-fi without the aliens is always the best.

If you didn't enjoy Watchmen, you may also hate V for Vendetta, Promethea
and The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. But that's not an excuse to
take a peek.

Grant Morrison is sort of in the same league, except crazier; his Invisibles
and The Filth are my faves.

Warren Ellis is a bit hit and miss in quality, I think, but he writes
for the love of it, not to become rich(er). Transmetropolitan is his
greatest masterpiece. Mostly alien-less future "society", in a world
where they lost track of what year it is. It could be considered almost
post-apocalyptic, except it looks more like an on-going process.

On the Image label, please skip past Spawn and head straight for The
Walking Dead. I started on the first issue, not really expecting to like
it, but now I have 25 issues in my collection. It's got zombies. How
could any Slashdot-reader resist? No ninjas or pireates, though. Well,
perhaps *one* ninja.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm thoroughly confused why you would have such stringent requirements for a comic to reach "literature" status in one breath and in the next praise a comic book writer's early entry into novel writing.

  I enjoyed Watchmen very much, though the quality is really only around pulp scifi levels. I'd say it qualifies as literature, scoring points for relative origionality and fun like any medium at it's high point. The factual errors and other problems are par for the course in science fiction.

As for Gaiman, I'll have you know I am a big fan, but I wouldn't laud his writing as somehow superior to an accomplished novel writer. His writing show obvious need for polish, and the first book reads like a paneled comic itself. That's not to say Gaiman's stuff isn't fun reading, and I thing that's the point.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[Tibor the Hun]

Sandman is a deep, long story, I've enjoyed it.
Also there is Cerebus the aardvark, but at 6000 pages I couldn't read it all at once.
I'd recommend Joe Sacco's "Palestine" and "Safe area Gorazde" for a good look at situations you won't get through evening news.
Marjane Satrapi's "Persepolis" and "Persepolis II" are also a good read about a girl from Iran.
And of course "Maus" is just better than awesome.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[Taed]

While Watchmen is one of the strongest pieces of comic book "literature", it unfortunately relies on a pre-knowledge of the super-hero genre. I feel that it can't be appreciated on its own, since it is essentially a deconstruction of prior work.

I believe that the most shining example of a work that is accessible to "outsiders" is easily Maus by Art Spiegelman. (Don't just take my word for it, it won a Pulitzer Prize!) At its core, it's the true story of the author's father's experiences surrounding the Nazi Germany concentration camps. Heavy stuff, but told in a way that is accessible by even a 10-year-old. Highly recommended!

A few other examples of excellent work that stand on their own would be V for Vendetta by Alan Moore, Cerebus: Jaka's Story by Dave Sim, Batman: Year One or the Sin City series by Frank Miller, Torso by Brian Michael Bendis, anything by Jaime or Gilbert Hernandez, Box Office Poison by Alex Robinson, or Stuck Rubber Baby by Howard Cruse. Your local comic shop would have any of these works, and you can always skim them prior to purchase.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[Anonymous Coward]

Cerebrus the Aardvark is one of my favorite comics that few people seem to have heard of. Maybe it's this "literature" quality that lends credence to the term "graphic novel" Hmm?

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[FroBugg]

All the stuff other people have replied with is great, so I'd like to add a couple of reccomendations of my own.

Bone, by Jeff Smith, is fantastic. It's black & white, and a little bit lighter (though not all the time) than a lot of the other stuff being pushed. The entire run is available in TPBs or in one giant phone-book sized volume.

Mike Mignola's Hellboy is great fun. The art is beautiful and it's got a very pulp-action feel with good writing and good stories. A number of the stories are lifted directly from myths and legends, but it's got a nice modernizing touch to it. It's not Shakespeare, but it's very well done. Available in a number of TPBs, each of which has a pretty much complete storyline.

Fables, by Bill Willingham, is still a monthly comic through DC's Vertigo imprint. Characters from legends and stories (Snow White, the Big Bad Wolf, King Cole, Prince Charming, Rose Red, etc) have fled a conqueror in their homelands and established a community in New York City. I can't reccomend this enough.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[July 21, 2006]

Every post this guy makes has a referral link to Slashdot. His only reason for posting is to advertise products. Why do people keep modding this scumbag up?

Christopher, stop it.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[CRCulver]

If, as you claim, the sole point of my post was to sell something, why did I link to the book I said sucked (Watchmen) and didn't link to the one I thought might be worthwhile (Sandman)?

Furthermore, you'll note that Slashdot has historically approved referrer links. If people have a problem, they'll mod me down. Since they generally don't (I have excellent karma), then it is obvious that the site is working as intended. Read Cmdr. Taco's long spiel about this in the FAQ.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[July 21, 2006]

Yeah pal - it doesn't matter what Slashdot says about the issue. What matters is what Amazon says about the issue. I will not rest until they terminate your account.

You're not getting shit scumbag.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[CRCulver]

If the site allows referral links, as Slashdot does and has for years (you seem to be new here), then Amazon won't terminate my account. Oh, and the last quarter just paid out, so you'd be rather late to make a difference.

I've looked at your posting history. Lots of negative mods, and you claim that I make this a worse place? At least I post productive comments for the most part. See what someone already responded to you in that a comment is the same whether there's a link in there or not.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[July 21, 2006]

"If the site allows referral links, as Slashdot does and has for years (you seem to be new here), then Amazon won't terminate my account. Oh, and the last quarter just paid out, so you'd be rather late to make a difference."

I've had many accounts so shut the fuck up with that garbage. And you're missing the point - who cares if Slashdot allows these links? I will find a message board that does not, make a bunch of posts using your link, and then report you. That will be that. You are a scumbag and I hope you have a miserable life (you obviously must be miserable at this point to ruin Slashdot for mere pennies).

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[CRCulver]

I will find a message board that does not, make a bunch of posts using your link, and then report you.

And then I can show them this comment to show that I have done no wrong, but rather some troublemaker has spammed my account in other places. You shouldn't announce your nefarious intentions here, comments are never deleted.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[July 21, 2006]

But Christopher, you've only created this account in order to set up some elaborate plot in which you can send out spam advertising Amazon and have an out! You see, now it looks to everyone as though you've got an enemy and you couldn't possibly be the one responsible. It's genius.

Except Amazon is a fucking company and they're not going to give a fuck about your stupid little tale. You fucked up Christopher. I told you to cut it out. You didn't. Now it's time to pay.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[CRCulver]

And what would stop a friend or loved one from just creating a new Amazon account and continuing this while I am out of action?

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[CRCulver]

Oh, and for what it's worth, I already wrote to them asking that I be assigned a new ref ID and the old one be deactivated, so even if you started spamming ref links with the ref ID you have, they would be useless and Amazon would see that I'm not responsible.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[July 21, 2006]

Good. I'll start spamming the new one as soon as you post it! Enjoy!

Just posted 300 links for you on a message board that explicitly does not allow them!

I think they'll handle the reporting for me - good people.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[mbourgon]

I'm not sure if this would count, but I haven't "read" comic books for decades.... except for Planetary. It's by Warren Ellis, the artwork is quite good, and the premise (quoting here)

We gather information on the hidden wonders of the world.

Mystery archaeologists. There's a hundred years of fantastic events that planetary intends to excavate.

We're mapping the secret history of the twentieth century.

Now, this may be too straightahead. It involves superheroes. It adds in variants of all sorts of history: Godzilla. Doc Savage. "Them". But it's a good read.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[Anonymous Coward]

Lone wolf and cub is an excellent dramatic series

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[Gramie2]

My favourite is Moonshadow (sub-titled "my journey to awakening"), a 12-issue series. It's done completely in watercolours and is thoughtful, profane, funny, and poignant. There were even favourable reviews from Kurt Vonnegut and Ray Bradbury!

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[swv3752]

You might want to check out some web comics. Digger is great. If Alan Dean Foster and Terry Pratchett were to write a comic, Digger would be the result. If you want you can get Vol 1 in paper form.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[Anonymous Coward]

Well a picture is worth a thousand words, so if you have good art you don't need pages of deep description. The limitation on dialog is more significant though, as is the fact that even the largest graphic novels don't approach the size of most books.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[mad.frog]

Cerebus is a fascinating work of art... 300 issues (exactly), all written and drawn by the same two guys, with the main writer/artist (Dave Sim) the main driving force. Unfortunately, while the first 200 or so issues had brilliant parts ("High Society" and "Church & State" in particular), the last part is... well... challenging. Not least because Dave Sim seems to have gone clinically insane at some part along the way. And no, I'm not exaggerating.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[mad.frog]

Bone is currently being reissued in colorized form by Scholastic. It's a FABULOUS read for all ages and highly recommended.

Hellboy is one of my current favorites. The stories are good, but the art (IMHO) is stupendous; Mignola is one of the top comic artists working today.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[Per Abrahamsen]

> Oh yes, Sandman is deep AND entertaining. There are also other comics
> that can be considered to be in the same universe, like Lucifer, Books of
> Magic and Hellblazer.

Well, technically, Superman and Batman are in the same universe...

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[Jesapoo]

I haven't read many comics, but I have read most of planetary after a friend shoved some copies into my hand and made demands. The thing with Planetary is, although I thought it used the whole premise well, as a great way of telling a story, but the series as a whole lacked that novel-like depth being discussed earlier. It almost came off as if the writer had an idea, and wanted to do it in a multi-book story arc but had to cram it into a fraction of the pages. I felt a little unfulfilled.

Compare with something like Astro City, where although some arcs are short, others are much longer - they take as much time as they need in order to be told properly. I'd highly recommend Astro City if you want a different take on the traditional super-hero story. Confession and Tarnished Angel stand out as two particularly strong sets within the series, and both are available in book form.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[snorb]

There are a number of comics that I think are fun like Stray Bullets, Milk & Cheese, Midnight Nation. But for my money, nothing comes close to what Chris Ware's been doing with Acme Novelty Library. Look at the way he establishes a character is adopted using an almost entirely wordless diagram. Admittedly, the plot isn't the type to keep you on the edge of your seat, but the artistry is second to none, IMO.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[EvilIdler]

>Well, technically, Superman and Batman are in the same universe...
Or is it multiverse? Much of the story in Sandman is otherworldly :)

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[Anonymous Coward]

I found it rather disappointing, for reasons I set out in my Amazon review (namely the trope of the supervillian explaining the whole thing to the heroes)

Issue 11 of Watchmen

NiteOwl: Adrian, I'm sorry... you need help. I know this "half New York" stuff is bullshit, but I'm still glad we got here before you got deeper into this mess.
Christ, you seriously planned all this mad scientist stuff?
I mean, when was this hopeless black fantasy supposed to happen?
When were you planning to do it?

Ozymandias: Dan, I'm not a Republic Serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my masterstroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome?
I did it thirty-five minutes ago.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[Zangief]

Watchmen is more about the presentation of the story than the story itself. About the structute of the narrative mirroring the plot mirroring the setting.

You have to look at the pretty pictures.

Look at the way Moore and Gibbons show one thing while talking about another in the captions. And at the same time foreshadowing another.

Or the precise timing that is created when Rorschach walks under a blinking neon light.

Or the comic within the comic. It is pretty hard to do the same thing in another medium. In cinematography, you just don't have the time to have another movie. In literature it may be easier, but in comics, you can juxtapose both narratives, without any problems. A writer would have a lot of problems to make it clear when he is talking about one plot or the other. In Watchmen, the pirate comic is woven perfectly within the plot.

Watchmen really shows that are few limitations to the medium. Moore himself has said that he and Gibbons were just trying to be smartasses, and put every little trick they could think of in Watchmen.

And the whole ...the ending involves the trope of the super-villian explaining his whole scheme to the heroes before doing them in... is silly. Because Ozymandias never wanted to "do them in", even if he was prepared to.

Yeah, it is a cliche to have the villain gloat about his plan. But the difference is that Ozymandias did it AFTER his plan was completed.

Of course, the whole thing is a deconstruction of the Superhero myth. So you lose a little understanding if you are not a DC/Marvel fan. But just a little.

As many have pointed out, Sandman may be more fitting for someone like you.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[jdbo]

*SPOILER ALERT*

I find it interesting that you were disappointed by the use of the "villain explaining the whole thing" in Watchmen; I found this to be one of Moore's most successful integrated commentaries on a comic-book storytelling trope. Because Ozymandius explains everything AFTER he had already done it, the story benefits in several ways. First (and most obviously) is the element of surprise (in that this trope has been stood on its head, and then in the several pages following that depict the chaos resulting from his successful plan). Secondly, the the storythen naturally bypasses the second part of the trope, i.e. the prostestations on the hero's part followed by the predictable (and often drama-free) violent confrontation between the hero(s) and villain, and moves directly to the more dramatic matter of the hero's personal reactions to Ozymandius's actions.

Given that the post-modern practice of commenting on storytelling techniques as they are being used in the current story can easily detract from the storytelling, I thought this was an excellent example of Moore having his cake and eating it, too.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[mad.frog]

Yeah, it is a cliche to have the villain gloat about his plan. But the difference is that Ozymandias did it AFTER his plan was completed.

Yeah, and in an exchange that some consider to be one of the best lines in all of superhero-dom (myself included). After the heroes discover the details of a plan that would involved the killing of millions of innocents, they confront the would-be perpetrator, who responds:

"Do it?" Dan, I'm not a republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my masterstroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome?

I did it thirty-five minutes ago.

Oops. Even heroes make mistakes...

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[honestmonkey]

Cerebus was great at first but eventually got bogged down in complete and utter bullshit. To say Sims is batty is to malign bats. If you can pick up the first few "Swords of Cerebus", those were fun. Eventually the comic went into some high school psych-class universe that apparently Sims thought was "clever".

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[honestmonkey]

Planetary is so well done that I never noticed any "lack of depth". And in fact, if you had kept reading, you would now notice that it is all coming together, and that all the bits you thought weren't related actually are. That random guy in the first few issues that became part of a ship? Not so random after all. It is a fantastic series. The art alone would justify it's purchase, but it is also one of Ellis' better ongoing ideas.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[Zangief]

"Oops" doesn't begin to describe Rorschach and Nite Owl expressions.

Re:Limitations of the comic format

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want comics that are truly literary and art, I suggest Jimmy Corrigan the Smartest Kid on Earth by Chris Ware. It follows multiple generations of men in Chicago, and is quite possibly the greatest piece of art produced in the medium.

Also The Tale of One Bad Rat by Brian Talbot is very impressive. It is basically about Beatrix Potter and child abuse. So, kind of a downer.

Australia's already had it

[rollonet]

I went to a Free Comic Book Day event in Australia today, at a nice place called Pulp Fiction Comics. I didn't know it was a worldwide thing until I saw all the comics were issue ones and were kinda rubbish. I did score a Penny Arcade comic though, that was awesome :)

I wish someone would setup a free anime, or free manga day some day soon...

Obligatory...

[Anonymous Coward]

Best day EVER! :-)

All these comic books...

[Durumbrain]

How about renaming it "comic book free day"? People could need one of those (especially in Japan).

Holy Memories Batman

[The Walking Dude]

I recently found this free collection of comic book/cartoon theme music (MP3s).

Re:Holy Memories Batman

[The Walking Dude]

Experts agree that Hostess Fruit Pies are essential to winning the War on Terrorism.

(Sorry for just throwing links at you, but it's Saturday morning, I'm drinking Southern Comfort, and I don't have much else to say. I figured if you are a fan of comics, you might find them interesting.)

Re:Holy Memories Batman

[antdude]

Nice. I find it amusing some of those themes are about 1.5 minutes long! Wow.

Free?

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Free comic book? Can I use that retroactively to get my money back on the POS where Johnny Storm's nova burst doesn't even knock the Hulk out, much less kill him and incinerate everything for a radius of a quarter of a mile?

Re:Free?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Hulk obviously made his saving throw...

Re:Free?

[Anonymous Coward]

Troll? What a pathetic POS that moderator is.

Free Comic Book Day in Dallas, TX

[mattgoldey]

For anyone around the Dallas, Texas area, I highly encourage you to attend C.A.P.E. (Comic and Pop-culture Expo) at Zeus Toys & Comics. C.A.P.E. is a free event held in the parking lot outside Zeus Toys & Comics from 10am to 6pm. This year's featured guests include:

• Bryan Hitch (The Ultimates)
• Gail Simone (Birds of Prey, Villains United, etc...)
• Tony Bedard (Exiles)
• And many more!

Disclaimer: I am not a Zeus employee. I'm just a loyal customer.

Re:Free Comic Book Day in Dallas, TX

[honestmonkey]

Yes, this was great fun. I got to meet Kristoph^h^hfer Straub who does the webcomic "Starslip Crisis" (http://www.starslipcrisis.com/), and he was sitting next to PvP creator Scott Kurtz. Lots of cool folks were there, depending on your tastes in comics there was something for everyone. And Zeus has all their back issues out for a quarter each. And I picked up a Serenity Movie poster! Definitely a great expo.
There's still a little time left if you are in the area.

Re:Free Comic Book Day in Dallas, TX

[mattgoldey]

I'm glad you made it out. I got a painting of Blue Beetle & Booster Gold by Andy Lee (what an amazing artist!), and got books signed by Gail Simone & Marc Andreyko.

I somehow managed to set down my yellow bag of free comics, though, and left it somewhere. It didn't make it home with me. :(

I did get a nice big stack of $0.25 comics, though. :)

The free comic...

[__aaxwdb6741]

teamed up to honor the comic-book form -- imitation is the finest form of flattery, as they say.
And what a dull imitation. I've never read anything more boring.
Dont even bother reading that "comic" they've made. It could aswell be a powerpoint presentation.

Informative or flamebait? Fuck you.

Re:The free comic...

[hisnameisalive]

I agree. The free comic definitely blows. If anyone out there wants to read something that explains comics and how they work (and how good they can be and why) check out Scott McCloud's "Understanding Comics". Really good read. link here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006097625X/sr=8-1 /qid=1146936935/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-0068785-9417674?_ encoding=UTF8

No thanks,

[Anonymous Coward]

I do NOT need a free copy of Daffy Duck or Archie.

Re:No thanks,

[RubberDogBone]

If you don't need them, bring them to the comic store so they have something to give away to somebody else!

They gotta pay for these "free" (non-returnable, non-refundable) books so the more actual free ones they have, the less they have to spend.

Re:No thanks,

[No Such Agency]

I'm pretty sure the stores don't have to PAY for these books... they just can't charge for them.

MOD PARENT DOWN - SLASHDOT SPAM

[Anonymous Coward]

I am in the process of reporting you to Amazon for spamming message boards with unwanted garbage. I am also going to start a campaign to spam your referral link to other message boards so that they will report you as well. In addition to that, I will begin sending spam with your referral link.

Amazon will be terminating your account within a week - thanks entirely to me. You are a scumbag. You owe me an apology.

I got my free manga already...

[Megane]

...right here!

Preacher

[Anonymous Coward]

Preacher

Writer/Artist : Ellis/Dillon

It's good stuff. I'll let others elaborate, or check the Wikipedia write-up.

Powerpoint-animated comic

[jdbartlett]

And who says a PowerPoint presentation can't be an exciting, gory, vegetable-driven adventure story?

Well, one in particular won the Pulitzer Prize.

[moultano]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus_(comics)

And I think it deserved it.

There are also free mangas/comics that aren't...

[Jesus_666]

...legally ambiguous at best. Most webcomics, that is. Yes, there are webcomics far above what you'd expect - like the excellent Blackbird (http://blackbird.ashen-ray.com/) that has the same graphical quality you'd expect from a commercial manga, the awesome Girly (http://go-girly.com/), which occationally features one of the most peculiar drawing styles ever (as well as some pretty peculiar characters), Concerned (http://www.hlcomic.com/), which is not only hilarious but also is a pretty good-looking piece of HL2 machinima, Howard Taylor's grandiose space opera Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/) or the two grandfathers of the sprite comic genre, Bob and George (http://www.bobandgeorge.com/) and 8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/).

Free Comic Book Day is a great event but some people give out a free comic strip every day (like Howard Taylor or BnG's Dave Anez). Some of the online stuff is definitely worth checking out. And if you like it there are some quite direct ways of showing your approval.


Also, owning a graphic novel does not affect your geek factor by a significant amount. Pre-ordering the dead tree version of Schlock Mercenary does.

It's also...

[P-Nuts]

It's also International No Diet Day today. Surely this is just a coincidence.

Crazy!

[jdbartlett]

You mean the comic manufacturers don't ship the free editions (for everyone else, it's a specific edition of each comic that's print labelled 'free' and 'promo only') as promotional material? That's pretty crazy. We need to be kind to our local comic store owners - especially in my no-horse (it died) town - we only have the one comic store!

Please stop this..

[Turn-X Alphonse]

As a bonus, the paper's 2001 manga-style tribute to manga (by the same artist, but with a dramatically different look and feel) has been reposted.

Maybe it's just me, but would anyone else like to see this die in the water ASAP? The reason I personally read manga is because I tend to find more mature stories on the topics I enjoy reading (Mecha mostly). The style doesn't make any difference what so ever, it's just there and will always be there. The only thing I really like about the style, is when they release compilation books and put 4komas at the end.

People miss the entire market that manga has. Other than the wannabe fans (who follow everything remotely "cool"), most fans will say exactly the same thing. "We're sick and tired of brainless crap, so we read manga because it has more of a plot than monster of the week". Western comics with mature themes just don't get seen outside of hardcore comic fans.

At my local comic shop half of the place is filled with collectables (Buffy figures, Marvel models etc.), there is half a wall with manga on it and then theres a second room which is nothing but Marvel/DC/whatever super hero brands are. Full to the brim of boxs of old children's comics. Some doujis and general hentai stuff thrown in and around. I couldn't pick out a single mature comic out of them all, so I went straight to the manga and picked up what I knew I'd enjoy (Gundam mangas in this case).

If the West truely wants to compare to anime and manga then it needs to buck up it's ideas. You can rip off the style and miss the entire point (Which is what you get from Megatokyo) or you can sit down and look at why it does well. Take it in the context that we British took food back in the empire. We never took the look, we took the taste and then changed the look to what we found more appealing (Curry being the major example).

Western authors need to focus on the plot and start marketing more than super hero comics to the masses. Start making movies out of the mature comics or at least start getting word out to outside the community.

In a very warped way webcomics and manga is bringing comics to a generation of kids. We can either go the power rangers route (rip everything worth while out like plot and just use the "style" AKA fights from the original. Changing the good plot to a worthless P&C amount of crap) or we can go a route where we improve by taking the good parts of something else and making a hybrid of our own.

Anyone who wants to argue, go read "Serenity", a "Christian manga". Which more or less does a poor wannabe style and gives the message "Trying to be yourself is wrong, fit in with the crowd. Your parents got divorced so you're going to turn into a prostitute with 12 kids on the dole". There is not a single part of that comic which is more than laughable and it sums up the entire copy cat industry nicely.

Re:Please stop this..

[dyoung9090]

Was going to mod on this but decided to reply instead. Almost everything you said is a mirror image of why many comic fans think manga is... well... bleh. The whole "inteligent stories only get read by a few people" argument can be tossed right back at you. I've seen some anime that was pretty good, and some that was pretty bad and nope, no way to tell it apart on the shelf. Most book stores (where the majority of fans get it from) don't even seperate the borderline porno/mature readers from the regular stuff so parents depend on the mercy of shrink wrap remaining on to tell them their son who likes Naruto might be a little too young Eden (although I'm sure there's worse stuff).

Comic fans say we read western comics because we're sick of the tournament of the book manga stuff. It's worse in anime I know, but Christmas! do you know how annoying the character wakes up, learns he has a great destiny/stumbles into a great destiny, steps out the door, makes 3 or four lifelong friends and sets out on his quest to find all the increasingly powerful magic playing cards, collect the increasingly colorful crystals, win each rung of the increasingly dangerous tournament, battle bigger robots, collect prettier creatures stories get?

You know you like Gundam? Great, some people know they like X-titles, some know they like IDW horror, some know they like DC's Vertigo line. For the general non-comic reader, they all look a like and Astonishing X-Men could just be Fables in a new cover but understand that for the non-manga reader Fruits Basket and Vampire Game all look alike.

Manga thrives because it throws content at readers by the bucketload with TONS of derivitives (Gundam knock-offs, tournament books, romance books of varying combinations (guy-girl, girl-guy, guy-girl-girl-girl-girl, guy-guy-guy, guy/girl-girl-guy-girl, etc) in a cheap disposable format and then what's well received gets collected and THEN the stuff from that lot that gets well received gets translated and brought over.

The American comic market works the opposite, by only pumping out stuff that either (a) gets good reviews/press so they can market themselves as highbrow or (b) sells big numbers. If it does neither, and sometimes if it only does one or the other, it gets axed. The stuff that goes international tends to be Ultimate stuff (good reviews by and large, good sellers), Sandman type stuff (critical darlings-turned-best sellers) and the like with the rest shaking out.

9 times from 10, the guy saying "western comics" need to be more like the Manga market doesn't know what the Manga market is like. They think it's just a hundred awesome writers pumping out hit series after hit series and pretend that whatever they're not reading MUST be just as good as what they are reading by virtue of being the same format. I think comic fans are at least a triffle more realistic and understand that there's still some crap out there that's only published because the author's thumb goes up the right butts or the publisher realizes that a particular copyright is more important than the content.

As for the marketing mature stuff/non-super-hero to the public, yeah, that's what the industry is trying with League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Hellboy, Road to Perdition, V for Vendetta, History of Violence, etc, etc. For every Spider-Man, there's a Ghost World, for every Superman Returns, there's an American Splendor. Actually, I think there's MORE, but you get the point. Manga isn't cross-demographic either. It sells mainly to (a) 30-year-old dork-type guys, (b) teen girls, (c) teen boys. Comics sell mainly to (a) 30-year-old dork type guys and (b) teen boys. The major companies always try a girl campaign and it never works.

And if your argument is that Americans aping manga style is what needs to die then that comes up short too because MOST companies tried to ape it, realized it wasn't the art that translated to sales, and dropped it. Compare most works pumped out in the past 3 years to thier 2000 counterparts and

Re:Please stop this..

[Turn-X Alphonse]

May as well make this a full conversation.

You've got a good point. But most comic fans I know don't get bought stuff by their parents. Most "adult" mangas (aka doujis) normally have semi clad women in a sexual position on them. It's normally easy to pick them out.

Most the stuff you've described is from children's anime/manga. Most fans don't seem to get that Naruto/Whatever is aimed at children and will always be mostly childrens things. These are like the ten million live action "adventures for kids" we saw in the 90s. There is no maturity there, just all flash and trying to sell crap to others.

Couldn't this apply to everything? If you're out of the circle you have no idea who anyone is but the basic Spiderman, Superman and Batman. Same goes for Manga, you either know what stuff is about or you don't.

Not sure what you mean by Gundam-knock offs. But yes some series have a lot of content. Radio dramas and side storys are very common, but that's part of the culture. Games from Japan are no different and if anything are even worse. But then you can't tell me 12 X-men story lines isn't on par with this.

They take very few risks, so you end up with the same 10 movies/comics/stories over and over. That's the reason I like manga, it's more open to risks and you can find just about anything. I would argue with your point there.. Stuff that goes international tends to be the childish crap like Naruto, it's basic, simple and gets a huge fanbase because of how "cool" the fights are. Anime like this annoys everyone who doesn't want to give it a blowjob. Most of the really good stuff gets neglected and left to rot saddly.

Manga market : Release lots of disposable magazines, serialise what does well. Make an anime of anything that becomes really popular and continue on as such. While it may produce a lot of crap it gives a good chance to a lot of people. So you also get more gems.

Most the things you have listed still focus round 1 hero or guy with super powers. There's no real.. difference if you get my meaning. The market seems focused on super heroes or doing quirky little goth stories. It needs to open up beyond the "gritty guy fights something" or "Demonic entity appears and everyone must be saved" and so on and so forth. I mean that's the thing with manga, you can go from reading a story about 5 frogs invading Earth (Keroro Gunsou) to a story about a guy who gets super powers from stealing panties and wearing them (Hentai Kamen) right to a war drama (various Gundam things). There's just more variety out there than in the Western side.

I really don't think you can point the finger at any geeks here on Slashdot. It's like going "HAHA YOU FAT BASTARD!!! HAHA!" in the middle of a weight watchers meeting. You're just as geeky as the rest of us, when you're 30-40 you'll still do what you enjoy and you'll still be a geek.

Re:Please stop this..

[Toby_Tyke]

that's the thing with manga, you can go from reading a story about 5 frogs invading Earth (Keroro Gunsou) to a story about a guy who gets super powers from stealing panties and wearing them (Hentai Kamen) right to a war drama (various Gundam things). There's just more variety out there than in the Western side.

I mean thats the thing with western comics, you can go from reading a story about fairy tale charcters (fables), to a war drama (Fury : Peacemaker) to a story about bug exterminators (The Exterminators ) right to a story about the last man alive in a world made up only of women (y the last man) There's just more variety out there than in the Japanese side.

See what I did there? Remember, 95 percent of everyhting is crap. I'm not especially familiar with Japanese comics, but I dare bet that most of it is derivative rubbish. Just like most of everything, be it superhero comics, tv shows, movies or video games. I would further suggest that the stuff that gets translated and makes it across to the west is probably the cream of the crop.

Someone in Japan who who's only experience of western comics was Preacher, Sandman, Authority, the Filth, Hellboy, Fables, Alan Moores Swamp Thing, Sin City and, ooh, Green arrow : Archers Quest (just because you seem to hate superheroes ) would probably think western comics were all fantasticly well written, genre straddling experiemental masterpieces, pushing the boundries of the art form. Which is bullshit, of course. but I think claiming Japanese comics are as a rule better is also bullshit. You may be right in saying there are more "gems", simply becuase the Japanese market is bigger than the western one. obviously, the 5% of manga worth reading is more than the 5% of western stuff worth reading. But by just dismissing western comics, you're missing out on a ton of fantstic stuff.

Re:Please stop this..

[dyoung9090]

I was going to mention the book market when I first read his response! It pumps out stuff, from one extreme to another (erotica - romance - chick lit - memoirs - fiction - mysteries - thrillers - science fiction - horror, all with a few stops along the way) and if you've ever been to a library book sale you're going to see a wide selection of crud that's almost indistinguishable and a bunch of books that were either good or popular but have been discarded (this year I've seen more copies of Secrets of the Ya Ya Sisterhood than I'd ever want to, a few years ago it was The Corrections.)

This is what a casual reader gets wehn surrounded by poorly organized/catagorized books, or what a manga fan finds in a comic shop that just alphabetizes everything or a comic fan finds in the 5 plus racks of manga at a B&N.

I can name more best sellers or critical supernovas in the book world than I can in comics because there's literally hundreds more book-books in print than comic book tales

To add to the list everyone else is making: Empire (dystopia), Wanted (anti-super-hero rated-mature-for-immature-language, action story), David Boring (or any Clowes stuff... it's just weird fiction), Sleeper for some espionage triller stuff, Strangehaven for a little of that old time Twin Peaks/League of Gentlemen type dark and edgy small town weirdness.

Now, the average non-comic person isn't going to pick up Wanted and say "oh, this is interested, let's pick up Kingdom Come too because it's like the mirror image story" but it's likely that I'm going to pick up Berserk, let's say, and then scratch my head before realizing AH! Rave Master would go great with that! Your store has all the Mecha stuff together? Awesome, my old store had all the Vertigo together, then all the other mature stuff next shelf over. Currently, I get my stuff online so if I don't know something's out there in the smae vein, I don't get it but because I know what I like, I usually find about it quickly.

Is it easy to get lost in the not-so-good stuff? Yeah, just like everywhere else. It's easier to find a book if you know about it, easier to find a TV-show if you're looking for it.

Re:Please stop this..

[Toby_Tyke]

Funny you should mention Wanted, thats what my sig is from.

Re:Limitations of the comic format, but one fact!!

[sgt_doom]

I would like to officially go on record as stating that the Green Lantern was the first expression of nanotechnology in Western fiction...

["In brightest day, in blackest night..."]

100 Bullets

[mad.frog]

Surprised no one has mentioned 100 Bullets, by Azzarello and Risso. It's still an ongoing series, but the first few years are out in collected form, and have many excellent self-contained stories.

The initial conceit is that some figure with a ruined life is approached by a mysterious figure known as "Agent Graves", who presents them with an attache containing proof of who is responsible for their ruined life (e.g., framing them for kiddie porn), along with a gun and 100 "untraceable" bullets... and the promise that any action they choose to take with this evidence and weapon will have no legal consequences.

This may seem like a concept without much opportunity for diversity of plot, but they find many ways to take it in directions you don't expect. And -- this is crucial -- there's nothing supernatural going on ("Agent Graves" is just a clever name).

Re:100 Bullets

[Anonymous Coward]

I second the 100 Bullets recommendation. Better written than any other comics or manga out there today. Also check out Azzarello's "Loveless", a post-civil war western, also without any supernatural elements.

Asks for your zip code

[hisstory student]

Here's the result I got after entering my zip code:

The code does not appear to be valid.

Yeah right.

Any ant-theme comics?

[antdude]

As an ant freak, I like reading comics that have ants. I know Ant-Man is one of them. Are there any others?

Make your own comics!

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out this program at www.mycomicbookcreator.com - they're starting to grow a community of homemade comic books using an open source XML format

Think non-US too!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm wondering why nobody has brought up european comics yet.

Don't be so US-centered (this includes mangas ;-) - Ye Olde Europpe and
especially the "franco-belgian" school has lots of great classics
(beyond - but including - Asterix or Tintin) and also is a very vivid culture
until today.

Comic stores DO pay for free comics

[mbauser2]

A game/comic store owner in Toledo, Ohio told me that the free comics cost his store twenty-two cents each.

(He didn't seem very "into" the idea of Free Comics Day. Just a stack of comics on a table, and if he saw you looking at them, he said "Take one of those, they're free." The only reason he ordered them was that some his regular customers wanted them.)

Artist Info

[Anonymous Coward]

Dave Steinlicht has a couple comic sites:
www.cornercomic.com
www.allsmall.net
and cropart.com the seed mosaic paradise
he is an artist at the St Paul Pioneer Press.

I know the guy from working with nostalgiazone.com, the comic store.