Xbox Author Discusses Microsoft Handheld

Dean Takahashi wrote an authoritative book on Microsoft's original console, called 'Opening the Xbox'. We're fortunate enough to be able to read a similar work on their next-gen console, a book entitled The Xbox 360 Uncloaked. Takahashi did an interview recently with Kyle Orland, of Videogame Media Watch. There he lays out the challenges of reporting on the industry, and getting publishers to understand the subject matter. Eurogamer reports that part of the book discusses a Microsoft handheld gaming system. From that article: "Takahashi claims the team was split in two following the launch of the Xbox 360, leaving the other half to work solely on reducing production costs for Microsoft's next-gen console. According to the writer, the portable is planned to be released halfway into Xbox 360's lifespan, a strategy to assuage the crippling costs of moving through hardware cycles. A Microsoft gaming handheld has been long-rumoured, the latest occurrence adding fuel to this particular fire being the release of a movie for the company's Origami project. A promotional video for the handheld PC showed Halo 2 running on its screen."

Comments

Typical Microsoft

[falcon5768]

They could have at least looked closely at the handheld market to see that the industry needs a 3rd handheld as much as they needed a third system, not at all.

Maybe Microsoft should focus more on how to keep from hemoraging money out its ass and take a cue from Nintendo on how to run a profitable company.

Re:Typical Microsoft

[hal2814]

"the industry needs a 3rd handheld as much as they needed a third system, not at all."

Yeah really. There's already the GBA and the DS.

Re:Typical Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

WOOOOOSH

Re:Typical Microsoft

[Jerf]

Odds are it'll be a PSP that uses cartridges and standard flash media instead of proprietary Sony media, and has slightly better graphics, simply because it came later. Maybe Xbox-ish level graphics, if you sized proportionally to a full-screen TV, which implies something about a quarter as powerful.

It might succeed, because I think the PSP screwed up by trying to use discs and not catridges. There may yet be room on that end of the market for a higher-end game machine with better graphics, but without the disadvatages of using discs.

On the other hand, I'm inclined to bet it won't unless they can do something about the Nintendo creativity onslaught, which is already buying them dominance in the handheld market, and I'm one of the people who thinks the Wii has at least an even chance (33%+) to dominate the next TV console generation. First make your games fun, then make them good looking.

Re:Typical Microsoft

[AuMatar]

Hey, look up! There's a joke going over your head!

Re:Typical Microsoft

[Rob T Firefly]

Odds are it'll be a PSP that uses cartridges and standard flash media instead of proprietary Sony media

Unlikely, at least for retail games, as proprietary media is pretty much the only weapon the handheld market has got against piracy - imagine the furor if handheld gamers had to deal with registration keys and things. I could see MS in particular using an extra flash card for optional downloadable stuff in the vein of XBox Live, but not as a format for games on the shelf.

Re:Typical Microsoft

[Jerf]

Standard flash media for what the PSP uses Sony Memory sticks for, user-added movies and music, not games themselves which will still come on proprietary carts. That's why in my phrase "cartrigdes and standard flash media", it says "and" and not "in the form of".

If I had to guess, they'd simply completely block execution off of the flash media, which can be done very effectively if they put their mind to it (never allowing it into memory marked as "executable").

Re:Typical Microsoft

[joelcm]

\begin{sarcasm}
Yeah, 'cuz if there is one thing Microsoft doesn't know how to do, it is make a profit.
\end{sarcasm}

Re:Typical Microsoft

[falcon5768]

oh in general Microsoft knows how to make a profit, but its gaming division has seen NOTHING but red. They are spending more on advertising and getting the 360's into peoples hands than they are making money. Its only the continuous flow of money from elsewhere in the company that helps them out.

Nintendo on the otherhand has not sold a system for a loss in it's entire history (even the Virtual Boy apparently sold for profit). When Nintendo recently reported a profit loss, it was a PROFIT loss, they still made a profit. Microsoft doesnt know what profit in its gaming division IS.

Re:Typical Microsoft

[JFMulder]

People are always complaining that Microsoft shouldn't be in the business. Before the N64 generation of consoles, there were two companies : Nintendo and Sega. When do I hear poeple complaining that Sony got into the business? Never. Is it different in Sony's case because they are not Microsoft, or is it because they got the most market share for the past two generations. (Probably both) What if Microsoft had taken number one by a good margin last generation, followed by Sony and then Nintendo. What would you be saying then?

More people bought Xboxes worlwide than Gamecubes last generation. They had also for quite a while the highest tie-in ratio (I don't know if that still holds tough). A lot of people seemed to agree that we needed a 3rd player.

So why not a third portable player? And hopefully by the time MS launches their Xbox portable, Sony will have left the portable market, since the PSP isn't going really anywhere.

You are totally right though that they should take a page from the Nintendo book on how to make cheap powerful hardware.

Re:Typical Microsoft

[scot4875]

Easy mistake. Most of the rest of the industry has forgotten it, too.

--Jeremy

Re:Typical Microsoft

[AuMatar]

Gamecube beat the Xbox worldwide. Xbox only won in the US. The Xbox also lost over 3 billion dollars, even after game sale revenue is added. The Gamecube made a profit on every unit sold and every game. Their total profit may have beat Sony's, but I don't have numbers on that. Their per unit profit definitely did.

So we basicly have a convicted monopolist using money from their monopoly to horn in on another market, at losses no other company could even consider taking. Yeah, I think theres lots of room to say MS shouldn't be there.

Re:Typical Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

The Xbox also lost over 3 billion dollars, even after game sale revenue is added

Last time I checked Microsoft lost over $4 Billion on the XBox, or aproximately $200 per system sold. On the other hand Nintendo made (about) $1 Billion profit per year (of the lifespan of the Gamecube), for a total profit of about $4 Billion-$5Billion (or about $200 per system sold). Ultimately Nintendo could have given away an XBox with every Gamecube sold and would have still lost less money than Microsoft.

Re:Typical Microsoft

[Chosen Reject]

Nintendo on the otherhand has not sold a system for a loss in it's entire history

That is not true. I love Nintendo, and while they rarely sell at a loss, they still do occassionally. However, it's only in the single digits, and not for very long.

Re:Typical Microsoft

[falcon5768]

considering the GC has been selling for 99 for years at this point, i dont think its at all accurate. Im sure they are still profiting off it.

Re:Typical Microsoft

[torpor]

There is plenty of room in the market for another hand-held gaming platform, especially an open one .. noticed something? All the handhelds, bar one, are closed to open development.

This means there's a market for an open-development handheld ..

Re:Typical Microsoft

[hal2814]

"So we basicly have a convicted monopolist..."

Your post from there on out lost me for a minute until I realized that you weren't talking about Nintendo. MS and Nintendo are both convicted monopolists.

IMHO, what Nintendo did was far worse from a video gaming perspective than packaging a Web broser into an OS or even taking losses to sell more hardware. Nintendo used monopolistic practices to keep game companies from publishing their games on other platforms. Funny how Nintendo's marketshare has steadily declined ever since they stopped their monopolistic practices. And before anyone jumps all over me as some sort of other-company fanboy, I'm a proud owner of every Nintendo console except for the N64 and DS (and that includes Virtual Boy). The only reason I skipped the N64 is that my roommate at the time had one and I wanted to pick up the Sega Saturn so I could get Saturn Bomberman since N64's Bomberman left a lot to be desired.

Re:Typical Microsoft

[ZiakII]

. Nintendo used monopolistic practices to keep game companies from publishing their games on other platforms.

What games? Besides the ones nintendo makes themselfs?

Re:Typical Microsoft

[hal2814]

I can't find specific games from a source I trust. However, here is a general rundown of the issue as part of a speech given to the American Law Institute and American Bar Association by Carl Shapiro from the US Department of Justice in 1996:

"As a condition for an independently-developed game to be allowed to play on Nintendo machines, Nintendo required that the game not appear on the rival systems sold by Atari and Sega for a two-year period.

Without delving into the details of that case (and Nintendo certainly offered a number of justifications for this practice), or laying out the steps in the economic analysis of exclusive dealing, let me simply point out how the network elements in the video game industry affect the antitrust analysis of Nintendo's exclusive dealing provision with game developers: Once Nintendo had a large installed base, it became very costly for developers of hit games to forsake the installed base of Nintendo users in order to make their games available on competing systems. As a result, Nintendo's exclusivity requirement reduced the attractiveness of the Atari and Sega systems, and made it all the more likely that the market would tip entirely towards Nintendo. At some point, consumer expectations regarding the decline of Atari and Sega (in that generation of systems) became self-fulfilling. In other words, exclusive dealing here affects not only the supply of inputs (hit games), but also consumer expectations, to the benefit of the market leader."

So it appears that all third party games released in the time period involved would have been affected.

The DOJ source link WARNING. It's a PDF. Check out page 20 (labelled as 19).

And to be fair, from what I have read it seems that Nintendo changed its monopolistic practices to avoid DoJ prosecution so technically they were not "convicted monopolists" though they did engage in monopolistic practices.

Re:Typical Microsoft

[Chosen Reject]

Oh, I'm sure they are profiting off of it now, and probably have been for a long time. I'm just letting you know that there was a time, albeit it a short time, that they sold at a loss, albeit slight loss. Granted, their losses are still no where near comparable to what Sony and MS lose.

Re:Typical Microsoft

[Holmesey]

Hi, Yes I totally aggree. All microsoft is doing is competing with SONY. Everything Sony does, microsoft does. Nintendo have just been sitting there making things as the technology comes along. Yet they have one of the most profitable companys out there. The only major step Nintendo made was the Game Cube (which went crap) there next one is the Wii. Microsoft went form Windows (OS on the PC) to entertainment system in a matter of about 3 years. Sony have always been entertainment system creators (beside there SONY TV etc. brand). Microsoft just came out of no where and want to compete. GO AWAY MICROSOFT. STICK TO WINDOWS!

Xbox 360 as a portable?

[saboola]

I am trying to figure out how this would possibly work. The 360 uses full size DVD media, for one. The accessing of data on the disc is not optimized for power conservation but for load times, which tells me that this unit would last maybe an hour on battery life (unless some really amazing battery advances come about in less than two years). Also, Microsoft have blasted sony for trying to attempt a console battle on two fronts (portable and home market) saying it was a bad idea. If they could pull this off, it surely would be cool (more competition in any industry never hurt) but I would be quite surprised.

Re:Xbox 360 as a portable?

[Jerf]

I think you're leaping to conclusions. Half the Xbox360 team has been tasked to build a "portable gaming console", not a portable XBox 360, which would just be absurd.

Re:Xbox 360 as a portable?

[7macaw]

>unless some really amazing battery advances come about in less than two years

Two words: Wind-up powered. Double kudos from happy parents for both keeping their kids busy and fighting obesity by requiring physical activity!

Re:Xbox 360 as a portable?

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously it is not a portable "XBox 360" but a portable console with the Microsoft branding (Read: Nintendo DS is not a portable N64 or GCN...)

tsk tsk tsk - don't they ever learn?

[MindPrison]

Biggest, fastest isn't always the best. Portable is an entirely different area than your basic console at home.

Picture this: Your're on the train, the train doesnt have a power-outlet and you've been playing your PSP for hours...naturally draining it's batteries to the last bit - in just 2-3 hours. Furthermore the PSP is bulky beyond belief, huge screen ...sure! Coolness factor - WOW! But it sucks batteries because of the spinning disc and the backlight.

Let's take a look at what the winners of portable gaming knows, they know stuff that the rest of them dont - saving on power, not on the entertainment! A Nintendo DS lasts for at least 10 hours (with 2 backlit screens!) and the older Nintendos lasted up to 40 hours - straight! Now that's more like it, always there - ready to play.

I remember my "superior" Atari-Lynx, can you belive it? 16-bit, 4096 colors and games that would beat the living sh*t out every competitor around at the time, but it FLOPPED! Why? It drained the batteries after 1.5 hours, people simply didnt use it.

Nintendo knows it (and thats why they're now launching the DS-lite, smaller - more portable - better lights...and still pretty cool 3D).

In short: Learn from experience (even if others) - make your handhelds simple, entertaining and last forever.

Re:tsk tsk tsk - don't they ever learn?

[Dark Paladin]

And the DS goes into sleep mode just by closing the lid - both screens are protected from harm, and your battery is conserved.

The PSP has a sleep mode, but even it is "turn off, put back in case (if you don't already have a Logitech clamshell, which is bulky", then put away to protect the screen from dirty fingerprints".

Don't get me wrong - I like my PSP (great handheld emulator, and "DJ Max Portable" is sweet), but some design elements were from the "bigger is better" campaign - which in the world of handhelds usually is not.

Re:tsk tsk tsk - don't they ever learn?

[Burlap]

points to you.

I had a sega game gear, good graphics... stupid short battery life (and it killed 6 AA's each time). got the point i couldnt play it without plugging it in as i couldnt afford the batteries.

Make it small, make it light, and make it run for a LONG time

Re:tsk tsk tsk - don't they ever learn?

[otis wildflower]

I remember my "superior" Atari-Lynx, can you belive it? 16-bit, 4096 colors and games that would beat the living sh*t out every competitor around at the time, but it FLOPPED! Why? It drained the batteries after 1.5 hours, people simply didnt use it.

I tend to think the size worked against it as well, as it was tragically released between the fashions of parachute pants and cargo pants, which are the only pants with pockets large enough for either the skateboard or the stereo chunk varieties. And yeah, that screen was as luscious as it was thirsty.

(I had both, along with Warbirds, Bill & Ted, Klax, Rampage and like 15 other games :p)

(and the DS Lite looks like what the Lynx (c|sh)oulda been, down to the 'one cart for all'..)

Re:tsk tsk tsk - don't they ever learn?

[PeelBoy]

To be honest I've never gotten more than 6 or 7 hours out of my DS. 8 hours tops, but I don't think I've ever gotten 8 hours out of it and I've owned 2 of them and about 30 different games.

I'm not sure about 40 hours either, but I dunno. I've never let my SP die all the way and it just blows me away how long that thing lasts. 40 hours though?

Re:tsk tsk tsk - don't they ever learn?

[MindPrison]

(and the DS Lite looks like what the Lynx (c|sh)oulda been, down to the 'one cart for all'..)

Very true! The lite DOES have some caveats though...such as protruding GBA cartridges :/

About the Atari: the only pants with pockets large enough for either the skateboard or the stereo chunk varieties.

LOL, yeah. I bought the FIRST version, that one kind of resembled the design of a skateboard too, maybe on purpose? At that time I was actually *geeky* enough to have a jacket that could fit it, but it was a monster.

Peelboy:I'm not sure about 40 hours either, but I dunno. I've never let my SP die all the way and it just blows me away how long that thing lasts. 40 hours though?
No, the SP lasts about 15 hours for me, but the old GB lasted between 40-50 hours, didnt have any backlight though, but it beat the color competition (Sega, Atari. etc.) simply because it lasted longer.

jbellis about PSP & GBA: It's smaller than the original GBA form factor.

Yes, but the GBA was a LOT lighter and not that deep, the PSP weighs so much in your pocket that it looks kind of ...weird... with that "lump" dragging your clothes down ;) They DID however create the Cool small SP - and finally the Micro. Picture a Micro PSP.

Re:tsk tsk tsk - don't they ever learn?

[monopole]

Damn straight. Can't wait for the DSlite to hit, smaller and more battery life. My PSP gathers dust because of the size, limited battery life and fragility. Remember, the gameboys are also well near indistructable and use flash for storage. And don't forget the play yan mp3-mp4 cartridge.

Re:tsk tsk tsk - don't they ever learn?

[Anonymous Coward]

I get at least 8 hours on my DS, closer to 15 if I've been playing GBA games a significant amount. It might be worth swapping your battery. They are cheap, and it sounds like yours has some issues.

Re:tsk tsk tsk - don't they ever learn?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually I saw a lynx recently, the battery life wasn't the problem. You can surf on those fuckers, they're HUGE.

Potential iPod rival combined?

[Dark Paladin]

The issues with the PSP has mainly been in the UMD, leading to longer load times (depending upon the developer - "Popolocrois" is awful, while "Daxter" has no problems) and lower battery life.

If MS decides to make a handheld gaming device, the best bet might be to make it a great MP3/WMV player (the gamepad would be fine for navigation, maybe with a center button so they're not exactly ripping off the iPod Wheel, but same functionality), and use the HDD for storage. Let people download games either through their 360 (plug in, get games/movies/music, walk away - which would make it a useful media hub) or through their main computer.

They have a lot of potential here - I'd say the key is leveraging the Internet and their existing base to draw people into their Live service. Odds are, knowing Microsoft, they'll just add in tons of extra hardware and bloat and try to make it look like Windows rather than a handheld, but if the 360 interface is any indication, they at least have *some* idea how to do it.

Of course, this is just my opinion - I could be wrong.

Re:Potential iPod rival combined?

[BigCheese]

That's where Sony messed up. What they need to do is make a portable gaming system. Not a multimedia box. Anyone who wants multimedia already has a iPod.

Re:Potential iPod rival combined?

[powerlord]

Yes, but not everyone who has an iPod has an iPod video, and not everyone who has an iPod wants to carry it in addition to a PSP/DS, Phone, etc.

If they would have put a half-decent hard drive into this thing and done some Music/Video sync service, they could have driven it right down the Nano's throat.

Re:Potential iPod rival combined?

[Anonymous Coward]

Let people download games either through their 360 (plug in, get games/movies/music, walk away - which would make it a useful media hub) or through their main computer.z

Why plug it in? Any self-respecting portable game platform has to have a wireless these days, just have it make itself known to the 360 through a similar interface as the controller. It might be cramming data through the wrong pipe, or it might require a USB plugin-thingie, but it would be very slick to be able to have the two devices talk without a wire connecting them.

I agree with the previous points about jettisoning the spinning disk idea. The game cartridge model is much lower-power, and when I want to play games I want to play games for hours at a time. Just think, I could play Halo Handheld and Lost Vikings on the very same platform!

If the thing were no bigger than a DS, I'd think seriously about investing in one. I just don't think Microsoft can do that, though. They don't do small anymore (ever?), it'll probably be bigger than the Origami.

Re:Potential iPod rival combined?

[dabraun]

Microsoft already did some of this - it's called Portable Media Center. Unfortunately it's too expensive and doesn't play games ... but with some work they could probably pull this off in the future.

obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine a Linux cluster of these things running Beowulf in Soviet Russia!

It's a brilliant strategy

[Anonymous Coward]

This way, Microsoft can fail at defeating the iPod and the Game Boy at the same time!!!

You're missing something...

[Mille Mots]

Imagine a Linux cluster of these things running Beowulf in Soviet Russia!

Where's the 'breasts option?'

--
Worst. Sig. Evah.

another money burner?

[Tom]

After the huge success that the PSP is (not!), I'm sure that's the right horse to bet one.

The PSP is great, no questions asked. But it isn't good enough. If Sony can't get it right - what will Microsoft come up with? A 3-pound ugly box that runs out of batteries after 30 minutes of playing the latest DX10 game on a 320x200 screen?

Re:another money burner?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"After the huge success that the PSP is (not!), I'm sure that's the right horse to bet one."

I'm not a fan of the PSP, in fact I had one and ended up taking it back. There are lots of things about it I don't like and that I feel Nintendo did a much better job on. Heck, I'm a foaming-at-the-mouth Nintendo fanboy. With that in mind, I really cannot call the PSP unsuccessful. They've got millions of machines out there and a decent library of games. No other non-Nintendo portable has done this well.

"If Sony can't get it right - what will Microsoft come up with? A 3-pound ugly box that runs out of batteries after 30 minutes of playing the latest DX10 game on a 320x200 screen?"

I didn't get the impression from reading the article that Microsoft was doing much more than tinkering around with the idea. I wouldn't put it past Microsoft to do exactly what you're describing, but the optimist in me says they cannot be ignorant of the fact that the DS is mopping the floor with the PSP. Somebody there has to be asking "Why?". If they seriously think about the answer to that question, I cannot imagine Microsoft actually green-lighting this thing unless there is some secret about it that would give them an edge. Of course, knowing them, they'll put a hard drive in it and claim that makes all the difference. Heh.

Re:another money burner?

[PeelBoy]

I agree. I wouldn't call it unsuccessful either. You're right that it has probably done better than any other non-nintendo portable.

There is one problem though. It hasn't been selling games very well.

I don't understand why people judge success of a console based on number of consoles sold and not the number of games sold for that console.

Who cares if a million people buy something that they never play or buy games for? The console maker doesn't make any money this way, the gamer doesn't have much fun this way so how is it a success?

I'd rather sell half a million consoles and 10 million games than 10 million consoles and half a million games. Wouldn't you?

The only reason selling the most consoles makes you #1 is because you have the largest group of people to sell your games to.

Re:another money burner?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"I don't understand why people judge success of a console based on number of consoles sold and not the number of games sold for that console."

I haven't been able to find information on the total games sold for either platform, so the best I've got is the number of consoles sold with the assumption that each console sells a game or two. That would be the main reason. I'd love to see sales numbers for games. The DS has had quite a few million+ titles. I don't know if the PSP has had anything like that. Lumines, maybe.

In any event, the rationale isn't totally flawed. We're talking about a system that's alive and breathing today, as opposed to a system that has already come and gone. The PSP has plenty of potential. It has enough units out there that developers can take it seriously and expect to get a good number of sales.

"I'd rather sell half a million consoles and 10 million games than 10 million consoles and half a million games. Wouldn't you?"

I think Nintendo would have a lot to say on that topic. ;)

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to be a little nitpicky: It's difficult to imagine any PSPs were sold without games. 10 million units, 10 million games sold. You're right that 20 games sold per system would be killer, but a company would have to f'up pretty bad in order to sell 10 million units and half a million titles.

It's the math, not the rationale I'm picking on. Nintendo has picked the strategy you're talking about and they've reaped substantial rewards from it.

Re:another money burner?

[pixel_bc]

Actually - the installed base of PSP's is now over 10 million units worldwide. That's a success, although Sony would have liked more I'm sure. It's still growing at a healthy rate as well.

Re:another money burner?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to see number for the Gamegear, if not the rest of the handhelds of the 90s. Not sure how exactly they'd match up but 10 million worldwide sold to retailers sounds pretty damned pathetic.

Re:another money burner?

[penguinstorm]

"A 3-pound ugly box that runs out of batteries after 30 minutes of playing the latest DX10 game on a 320x200 screen?"

Well, that pretty much describes the new ThinkPad with Windows XP I'm configuring, so I'd say you're right on target.

Re:another money burner?

[pixel_bc]

It's sell through, not to retailers.

Re:another money burner?

[pixel_bc]

I'm doing a double reply.... there were about 10 mil GameGear units sold wordlwide. Comparatively, I know the original GameBoy sold at least 175mil units... I'm not sure of the exact number there, though.

oh no!

[Kamineko]

From the website:
eBook: PDF, 404 pages (with color photos), $14.95 US

Where the hell are the pages?

I smell bias

[jbellis]

"the PSP is bulky beyond belief"

It's smaller than the original GBA form factor.

About the same, actually.

[Valdrax]

According to the Wikipedia:

GBA: 144.5 mm X 82 mm X 24.5 mm @ 140g (w/o batteries)
PSP: 170 mm X 74 mm X 23 mm @ 161g (w/o batteries)

The GBA is shorter and weighs less, but is thicker. The DS, however, is bigger than both. I just got one recently, and it's a bit of a shocker how much heavier it feels after a few years of using an SP. I don't have a PSP to compare, however.

Shutup and See What Happens

[shoma-san]

Here we go again with more of the typical Slashdot slam fest, like every other one that shows up when the big bogeyman Microsoft is mentioned. The haters and flamers will get modded up as insightful or funny while jerk posts like mine will go untouched or modded down to troll or offtopic.

I don't care whether you hate them or are in bed with them, they are here to stay in the gaming community and they aren't going away. And let's be honest, how many slahdot'ers bought Nintendo gamecubes and play Mario brothers based content all the time? No thanks, I'll take an XBOX with adult content any day of the week and twice on Tuesday - to hell with waiting for Sony's next product to come out or another Mario Kart. I'm an adult damn it and I want to play adult games (I'm so mature)!

But to say that Microsoft doesn't belong in the handheld console market means that you all bought PSP's or that gay stylus Nintendo dual screen hunk of junk and are sooo pleased with the way things are. There's always room for more products and other companies to get into the business. If there wasn't, we would all still be playing pong on our TV's. I look forward to seeing how MS fails or triumphs in the handheld market. Maybe they'll cause the other two big players to focus and create better products with the next generation.

Re:Shutup and See What Happens

[PeelBoy]

You're the one who needs to be modded Troll not the rest of us.

Everybody else posted legit reasons on why they think this will or won't work.

All you did was call the DS a "gay stylus Nintendo dual screen hunk of junk"

Wait, you mean Microsoft is the reason we aren't playing Pong on our TV's?

Gee how Insightful.

Re:Shutup and See What Happens

[shoma-san]

No - everyone just started complaining about Microsoft. And I wasn't trying to be insightful. I was pointing out the hypocracy. Thanks for proving my point.

Re:Shutup and See What Happens

[PeelBoy]

How did I prove your point when I wasn't even complaining?

I don't think most people were complaining about Microsoft.

You're just mad that most of us don't think it's a good idea.

Microsoft and consoles

[2008]

Microsoft shouldn't be in the home console business because they're competing against themselves - Windows is a major gaming platform.

If they'd focused on improving Windows by e.g. adding features from Xbox Live, making a standard install-and-play process which is as simple as putting a disc in an Xbox, and insisting that their OEM partners like Dell et al bundle gamepads with a standard layout with their PCs (so developers can count on having dual analogs available if they want to make a PC game that uses them) then the PC could be the best gaming system out there*. Instead they produced a "me too" console.

A similar argument could apply to Windows Mobile PDAs vs handheld consoles... but do people buy PDAs for games? I didn't think so.

*I guess it arguably is anyway, but I still own a gaming PC plus consoles for the genres that PC developers ignore. I wouldn't need to if MS had done a better job with Windows gaming.

Re:Microsoft and consoles

[rtb61]

Although that argument is logical and sensible and the console does compete with the windows PC gaming platform fracturing their own market, sections of management still drive it. In terms of losses microsoft also does not count the windows os licencing loses, as they do not charge for it but sections of management argue that they were failing to gain a return by forcing other game publishers to pay a licence fee for each windows compatible game sold (sections of microsoft management really do think like that).

So the hand held will end up competing with windows ce and origami to create another excersize in marketing confusion and an inflation of their advertising costs.

Microsoft's consistant problem is they have become accustomed to forcing purchases upon the consumer via their effective os monopoly, so when it comes to actually forcasting the most pofitable new products or getting the customer to choose their new products or establishing true customer desire they consistently fail.

apple game console

[angrymilkman]

I would have expected apple to bring us the 3rd handheld. When will apple open up their Ipods so third party developers can start building games? I mean Ipods have a color screen and good battery life already.

Re:apple game console

[atomic_toaster]

So far as I know, there's already a distro of Linux that can be installed on the Nano and will run Doom. Granted, it still needs some work (if I remember correctly, the bots just stand there and let you shoot them), but it's a step in the right direction.

Microsofts handheld

[Holmesey]

I feel this would be totally ripping off the PSP. I mean fair enough we have Game Boys, PSP's, MP3 Players etc. They are all trying to develop around the same thing that is; PORTABLE ENTERTAINMENT. As out lives get buisier, we cant stay at home and listen to music or play games anymore we have to be able to carry it. PDA's are an example of portable internet, IPods, MP3 Players- music, PSP's, Game Boys- gaming. What i'm trying to say is that Microsoft and Sony have always been battling, trying to beat each other. Sony brings out PS2- Microsoft brings out X-Box, Sony brings out PS3- Micrsoft bring out X-Box 360 early trying to beat Sony and lose them money. If microsoft bring out a portable entertainment system it will do everything a PSP does. What will the call it? An XBP (X-Box Portable)???