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India and NASA to Explore Moon Together
hotsauce writes "NASA administrator Griffin on a visit to Indian space facilities in Bangalore has signed an agreement to explore the moon with the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO). This agreement will see NASA instruments on a 2008 Indian moon mission, and further cooperation is being explored. An Indian paper has a different take on the visit. Interesting answer by Griffin on NASA outsourcing to ISRO."
Now just how long before congress and the president is outsourced to india? ;)
:).
The correct verb is 'sold'
Seriously, though, getting to the moon on the cheap with India seems a lot more likely to succeed than any space plans involving cooperation with Russia.
'Loose' is when your pants are three sizes too big. 'Lose' is when you misuse 'loose'.
ISRO's mission will carry payloads for NASA. It is piggybacking in a literal sense, but the other way around.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
If the goal is "on the cheap", there are much better solutions.
;)
1) Put off the landing date to give tech a chance to advance further; there are a number of interesting techs on the horizon.
2a) Cancel the CEV; launch astronauts on Shenzhou and Soyuz.
OR
2b) Finish the CEV, but with a disposable or minimally reusable design, launched atop an EELV to reduce development costs.
3) Complete the DART program to eliminate the need for shuttle-delivered ISS components.
4) Reduce manned spaceflight.
5) Funnel the savings into many launch cost-reduction programs at once. Possibilities:
5a) Scramjets
5b) HEDM fuels (cubane compounds, nitrogen rings, solid ozone grains, etc)
5c) Cryogenic solids/hybrids
5d) OTRAG-style vehicles
5e) Nuclear thermal propulsion
5f) Materials tech (cheaper superalloy production methods, cheaper/stronger carbon structures, better linings, etc; especially important for reusables)
5g) General engine tech (there's always exotic engines like aerospikes, but I was thinking more along the lines of flometrics-style pumps, simpler turbopump designs, better self-contained hydraulics, better sensors, etc)
6) Also funnel the savings into in-space cost reduction tech:
6a) In-space assembly.
6b) Tether reboost
6c) Magnetoplasmadynamic thrusters and associated high energy density nuclear power plants
6d) Orbital tugs (rocket powered or ion powered)
6e) Solar power tech (to reduce mass and increase power)
6f) Exotic propulsion methods - antimatter-catalyzed microfission/microfusion, nuclear saltwater rockets, etc.
6g) Lots of other miscellaneous craft tech that I don't want to have to take the time to enumerate.
Only after several generations of the smaller projects and one or two generations of the larger projects do you actually work on a vehicle that you plan to use as a workhorse and take a moonshot. By cutting back on the big capital expenses (the manned exploration program), you free up funds to take several technological routes at once, so you can pick the winner.
India has been courted by Presidents of both parties in America, and counts a full 1/3 of Congress in the India Caucus. That speaks volumes for how important India is to our American interests. Then there's the obvious close ties India has to Europe, and especially Britain. American foreign policy interests are also greatly helped by a country that is the world's largest democracy in a rather un-democratic neighborhood, and has very good relations with Israel, also in a neighborhood where Israel has few friends.
The cold war relations between America and India were truly a mistake, and a lost opportunities for both our countries, and I'm glad to see the US finally form the strong bonds with a country that will necessarily be one of the most important in the world in the coming years.
Years of propping up dictators in Africa and Pakistan have done us no good, and have only bred festering flash-points. It's time we gave some serious thought to a relataionship that has and will continue to produce excellent dividends for both parties.
I know you think they're all the same, but you're just displaying your typical Western ignorance, as are the moderators that modded you funny.
Typical Western ignorance?!?!?!!?
As you type your screed on a digital computer, and send it over the internet with satellite linkups.
I'll say one thing: At least Western ignorance is rather inventive.
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
These are only workable if they are politically viable. None of them are politically viable. It is not in the United States' interests to lose the capacity for human spaceflight.
We can't launch the CEV on an EELV; man-rating any of those vehicles would be a nightmare. We can't launch only on foreign launch vehicles, as said above. Technology development will NOT inspire the next generation of scientists and engineers, which is one of NASA's ultimate goals--human spaceflight is inspirational and helped us with the cold war, after all.
The fact that you know so much but know so little is shown by your desires for NTP -- not only is Nuclear Thermal Propulsion going to cost billions of dollars and take years to finish, it really doesn't help that much for going to the Moon. Sure, you could launch a more capable system and take the same time to get there (or you could get there faster), but if you have to spend $5B on the engine alone, and probably $B for each copy of it, you're not going to have a space program left to train the astronauts, much less build the spacecraft.
And don't get me started with the "high-density nuclear power plants"! Sheesh, that's ANOTHER $5 billion--and if we're successful, we'll have the largest ever nuclear protest group at the launch site...ASSUMING that we can get launch approval! Never mind that it'll only be politically viable for 2 more years (6, if we get another republican, or maybe 10 if we get two) and the system will take at least 15 years to build. Look at SP-100's future if you don't believe me.
"Antimatter-catalyzed microfission/microfusion"?!?!?! What are you smoking? If we have problems launching something like New Frontiers, which had an RTG on it, how are we going to launch the most dangerous thing known to mankind? Oh, and that's forgetting that a project manager is incentivized to put things on his mission that will WORK...which means TRL 7, minimum, and this is, what, TRL 2? I doubt that there's a workable science bench microfission...and even if there were, it's got to fit on a conventional launch vehicle to get into space.
Technologists always forget to think of things like a project manager: A project manager wants a piece of equipment on his spacecraft to 1) work, 2) fit, 3) weigh as little as possible, and 4) take up as little electricity as possible. PERFORMANCE IS SECONDARY to all of these.
A technologist, on the other hand, is looking for a new, more powerful, more efficient thing. He usually thinks that, once performance is achieved, then putting it into the package that will fit on the spacecraft is no big deal. It's usually the most technically challenging part! Look at how long it took the MER rovers to unfold...well, all of those mechanisms had to be designed and built, which cost a lot of money--if a larger aeroshell could have been used (technically difficult, reentry is tough) then the rovers could well have been less expensive.
In the end, though, the real problem is political viability--and none of your suggestions take that into account. If you're going to spend $17,000,000,000 of the taxpayer's money, then it has to be acceptible to their elected representatives, or it's not going to fly.
As for your misrepresentations about the Brits not permitting industrial development, you may want to have words with this company as well as others. When the Brits left, the Indians did not want major assistance programs from any western power and were prefering to flirt with the Soviets at the time.
See my journal, I write things there
You talk lines quite easily.. if you were Indian or know our history, you wouldn't generalise.
It's hard to trust "western powers" after 200 years of colonial rule. Colonial rule started cause we (Indians) trusted the British in business in the first place.
About health and literacy programmes, yes it's unfortunate that our level of literacy is low. But it doesn't mean there isn't enthusiasm to help. Factors such as corruption have hurt this.. but we still have goals to make everyone literate. It is in fact a basic right of every child in India to be entitled free and compulsary education. But in a highly populated country like India, it's easier said than done.
But all things must move, and just cause we want health and literacy, it doesn't mean that we just ignore other development. There's greater room for development.. due to the amount of population (which also means high competition) and the _quality of education available to the middle classes_, India has a large number of intelligent people. Scientific research and development, and engineering would usher in development of infrastructure.. these are related.
Again, all this is easier said than done.. but instead of pooh-poohing our approach, you should be glad we are doing something about it. India is not very far off from the likes of the U.S. We value freedom too.. we are a democracy. Our markets are just as capitalist.
There are incidents you'd prolly hear about, about communal violence, etc. But do you hear about the number of Indians of different religions, cultures, etc. living in perfect harmony (read the vast majority of the Indian public)? It's quite a feat to pull off. It's no simple task to administer a country of this size.
Progress can only be slow and steady. It's certainly not flat as you can see.
Banu