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Electric Companies Get Involved With Broadband

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the who-isn't-these-days dept.

Billosaur writes "The Marketplace Morning Report on NPR has an interesting piece on how electric companies are getting into the high-speed Internet business with 'Broadband over Power Lines', or BPL." From the article: "By purchasing the right equipment power companies can quickly offer Internet service to millions of new customers. There are several pilot projects being launched in the US, including one in the Pittsburgh suburb of Monroeville. That service is being offered by Duquesne Broadband -- a spinout of the local power company.'"

13 of 221 comments (clear)

  1. Stale news. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    Was this posted by an old Korean?

  2. Would be ok if... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The power line wasn't a giant freaking unshielded antenna! This tehcnology has been effecting communications gear all over the place. Its a very very bad idea in its current form.

    http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/

    1. Re:Would be ok if... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Do some Googling. The problem is exactly that the power lines are designed to transmit power at 50/60 Hz. BPL works by forcing these lines to transmit RF signals. The reason why BPL is such a technical disaster is that power lines and transformers don't act like proper RF transmission lines... they act like antennas.

      The right way to implement BPL is for the power companies to use their rights-of-way to run fiber to the customer premises.... or at least to the pole outside, where an 802.11 link handles the last 100 meters.

    2. Re:Would be ok if... by bobthecow · · Score: 5, Informative

      Do you mean to be comparing the speed of the data (Mbps) to the frequency of the powerline? Where are you trying to get at with that calculation?

      The issue at hand here is that powerlines are unshielded. They were never intended to carry RF, and act as very, very big antennas when they are used in this way.

      Once you load up a power line with a radio signal, you have the potential to start messing with communications all over the spectrum. The noisiest response to this has been from Amateur Radio operators, but government agencies who might be affected also think BPL is a bad idea. It's not a particularly good idea to knock out communications by the Red Cross, Salvation Army, and other emergency response agencies.

      To use an analogy, think about how the water lines in your house would respond if you pressurized them beyond their capacity. They'd leak, yes? Or how about using them to carry corrosive chemicals instead of water? They weren't designed to do that, and it will cause problems.

    3. Re:Would be ok if... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I have limited understanding of how a BPL signal is encoded on the line; but in general: The problem isn't interference between the 50- or 60-hZ (depending on which country's grid) power wave and the broadband signal on the line. The problem is that the broadband signal (which, to carry any significant bit rate, has to be at a much higher frequency than 50hZ) gets radiated from the power lines as it is transmitted, interfering with unrelated communications equipment in the area. (Were this deployed in a major city, "the area" would be everywhere in the city.)

      I'd also like to know more about the quality of the power waveform once a communication signal has been imposed on it.

    4. Re:Would be ok if... by mav[LAG] · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, he's quite right - he probably just doesn't live in the US like you. In the UK and South Africa (at least - I think there are also several other countries who use it), radio controlled aircraft are allocated to 35Mhz.

      All my radio equipment is 35Mhz and any Canopy Wireless system in the area would definitely make for some very short flights.

      --
      --- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
  3. and i was just reading by wherley · · Score: 5, Informative

    in the latest QST http://www.arrl.org/qst/ about the FCC ignoring amateur radio ongoing complaints about BPL system interference.
    new BPL complaint here: http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2006/05/05/100/
    system operator response here:
    http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/files/COMTek .pdf

  4. Barely as fast as ISDN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Why would anyone settle for this kind of service while the rest of the world gets 100Mbps ethernet to their premise or even better fiber at gigabit/sec rates?

    BPL puts a whopping huge RADIO SIGNAL on to the power line which then requires a modem at the customer end to pull it back off. This radio signal radiates from the power line on most HF and low VHF frequencies causing severe and harmful interference to other radio services.

    Amateur radio communications on these frequencies will be almost entirely precluded. Remember that during hurricane Katrina and most other natural disasters around this country and the world, amateur radio is usually the only means of communication after the commercial services are destroyed. If BPL is operating outside of the affected area, then the people trying to communicate with the affected area will be so interfered with by the BPL that they will be unable to communicate with the people in need.

    BPL will have such poor and unpredictable line characteristics to operate into that the best performance expected is at or below ISDN rates of 128Kbps. Do you really want to oblivionate the volunteer, completely independant and non-commercial amateur emergency service for 128Kbps? Do you really think that in the end it will be commercially viable?

    Please contact your elected representatives and ask them to support the ARRL's position against this ill and misguided attempt to fool the people into something that is not what it appears to be. Tell them you'd really rather have true broadband over fixed wireless, fiber or other infrastructure like the rest of the modern world has.

    http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/

  5. Cheating bastards! by coop535 · · Score: 2, Informative
    They're using WIRELESS technology. Read TFA! You'll see it there, plain as day.

    I doubt they even solved any of the original problems they brought to the table eons ago! The idea is that every OUTLET could have internet access. Everyone who has an existing electricity feed could get internet access (imagine third world countries, etc). You'll notice that the article says that without a "smart grid" it won't work in rural areas. A good chunk of the world is rural...

    Might as well invent a square wheel while they're at it.
  6. Re:IF BPL technology is so good by Amouth · · Score: 2, Informative

    completely diffrent hardware and wires.. this type of hardware was desigend to be used in conjunctions with AC power at mid voltages and high current

    telco's are set up for mid-low coltages and low current DC..

    that and there switching equipment would never work with somethign like this.. they would have to replace everything..

    when you look at power and signal detla on AC it doesn't care if it goes through a transformer or two the delta is still proportonal to the average voltage..

    it would just make no sence to use it on phone lines

    --
    '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
  7. Re:Please wake me when it's done... by Vancorps · · Score: 4, Informative

    I would suggest you look at Corinex in particular, at 200megabit it doesn't cause any major interference. For that matter, here in Peoria we have a broad scale deployment of BOPL and considering my coworker is a ham enthusiast in the same town I find it odd that this fud is still being spread around. He's got no issues within a mile of the thing nor has the telecom company doing all the work had any issues reported to them. They are one of our sponsors so we generally talk to the people who would know. It makes sense that rf over the power lines would get amplified greatly but in practice it doesn't happen especially when you do it right at each substation. Our ISP runs fiber to each substation and then attached more or less a gateway that connects the fiber to the power lines.

  8. Re:Please wake me when it's done... by jms1 · · Score: 2, Informative
    For that matter, here in Peoria we have a broad scale deployment of BOPL and considering my coworker is a ham enthusiast in the same town I find it odd that this fud is still being spread around.
    The INFORMATION is still being spread because it's correct. Not every BPL deployment uses the same equipment- there are several other BPL deployments around the country which use older equipment, and which ARE kicking up large amounts of broadband RF noise, causing interference to amateur radio (and other licensed services.) Just because the system in your area isn't causing noise doesn't mean that none of the systems in other areas are.
  9. More than 10 years and still no show by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    It's been more than 10 years since this 'gosh, golly, gee' story came out. The FCC and amateur radio operators, the FAA, and the Armys, Navys and Air Forces of the world are all on one side saying: NO! It screws up totally HF radio and won't be permitted. Those who whine" 'but I wannit, I wannit' will get a cruise missile through the bedroom window (smack right into the compter). The big reasons it failed before are the same ones why it will fail now. Long range navigation, HF radio (used by international airline carriers, Millitary, etc.) are all totally ruined by this. So thanks for asking, bye bye now!